| Author |
Message |
    
Davo
| | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 09:59 pm: | 
|
What ET temps do you dyno folks use to dial in the fuel map? One tuner told me that they did not like to go over 325 F. I think if you guys brought the bikes up to 390 F-405 then you would see the need to re-curve the timing. |
Xbimmer
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 01:07 am: |
|
This is an interesting dialogue you guys are having, Buelldyno/Davo.
I really hope there's a fix for this thing... I love this bike but I also don't believe I should have to baby it to keep it from long-term self destruction.
Davo I didn't have time to tackle the static retarding before my trip, and my dealer couldn't fit me in to check it. Traveling I-15 through a lot of desert and 100-plus heat was interesting to say the least. Fifth gear rollons to pass through 18-wheeler wake turbulence especially with headwinds was ping city.
I was fed up by the time I got to Idaho Falls where I met up with my brother from Spokane. Grand Teton HD wedged me in on 07/06 and got me out by noon after finding the factory timing was 5 deg too advanced (surprise) and after retarding it back to stock setting I was on my way with virtually no pinging, and my gas mileage jumped also. But this was at about 5k ft altitude...
Returning home via I-80 and Hwy 99 the lower I got in altitude and the hotter it got revealed the ping demons again... although not as bad as before the timing adjust, or when I was whining to my dealer that something wasn't right and they kept saying it was.
Being ignorant as I am of how digifueltronics work, by reading your guys posts I am beginning to think maybe the problem is ECM mapping. Didn't Buell re-map the ECM's for the Uly to account for lowspeed (as in off-road applications) manageability? Could it be possible they screwed it up, at least on some of them? Still whining, I guess, but I again say that Buell's top of the line machine should be able to be ridden anytime any way without this concern.
So Buelldyno, are our ECM's reprogrammable? |
Snowscum
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 04:32 pm: |
|
Xbimmer are you using the HD synthetic oil? |
Xbimmer
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 08:44 pm: |
|
Snowscum, yes, Syn3 in all three. Does pretty well I think, and bike didn't even use 3/4 of a quart on this trip, over 2200 miles, most of it 75-85 mph. |
Snowscum
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 10:31 pm: |
|
Im leaning towards changing back to the stock oil that was in it when I bought it. I think it could be behind the nasty ping Im getting.
They do say you hear alot more engine noise
from using it even though I hear a ping.
Ill let you know if it makes a difference. |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 10:50 pm: |
|
Very curious thread. The only time I've had any pinging was when I got stuck in traffic on a 90+ degree day. When traffic finally opened up, I grabbed a handful and heard pinging. I back off the throttle, and within a mile of 30+ mile per hour riding, I could use full throttle again. No pinging.
I really don't think it's the engine. It's got to be a setting such as timing. |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 09:22 am: |
|
"Im leaning towards changing back to the stock oil that was in it when I bought it. I think it could be behind the nasty ping Im getting"
Curious about your thinking here? |
Snowscum
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 10:05 am: |
|
It started pinging after the 1000 mile oil change which they put that syn3 in. I know
it sounds off base but it was the only major thing that was changed at that time. |
Teeps
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 10:08 am: |
|
Brucelee Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006
Snowscum Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006
"Im leaning towards changing back to the stock oil that was in it when I bought it. I think it could be behind the nasty ping Im getting"
Curious about your thinking here?
Me too. One thing I have noticed on my Uly is there is a lot of metallic chattering in the engine. Sounds like cooling fin ringing. Maybe that is being confused with pinging? |
44mag
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 03:56 pm: |
|
Useful data point:
I just got back from a 630 mile trip into Central Oregon. The elevation ranged from 200 ft to 6300 ft above MSL into the Cascades. The temperature ranged from 60-90 degree's (F). There were LOTS of steep hills and WOT passes. I had ~50-60 lbs of gear in the saddle bags and strapped to the rear seat. I am running the Harley 20W50 synthetic. I estimate that I burned about 0.2 quarts of oil (I have not checked to see if some of this was simply blown through the breather tubes yet). I have 3500 miles on the bike. On steep hills I kept the RPM's at 4000 or greater. for normal cruising I kept the RPM between 3500 and 4000.
NO PINGING!
My gas mileage averaged 60 MPG on the flat freeway and 55 MPG for the mountain 2 lane highways and 45 MPG in city traffic.
The bike ran GREAT!
My timing was retarded about 3 degree's as per Davo's initial recommendation. Here is a picture from a previous post (go down about 1/2 way).
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142838/210188.html?1151725132 |
Davo
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 04:40 pm: |
|
Great news and great timing (no pun intended). Some of these guys were looking at Syn 3 as the pinging culprit and were thinking of going back to HD 360. I know it is frustrating and timing is kind of intimidating to a lot of people. I for one would rather change the timing than the oil and filter. |
Xbimmer
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 09:07 pm: |
|
I can't blame the Syn3 at all. Mine started pinging within 1 mile after I left the dealer! I figured maybe the dealer had filled it with regular gas, but my first fillup with premium didn't change anything and that's when I started to talk to them about it.
I really want to try Davo's method but right now my dealer's trying to warranty back my $85 I paid Grand Teton HD to set my timing to factory spec. If they want to check anything I want to have it as-is.
They've been pretty good to me at Simi Valley HD. Original seat, warrantied. Cracked taillight, warrantied. Bad factory timing, warranty-ing. Sidestand recall, well since I've already installed the repair replacement I'm sure they'll warranty that. Free service for two years... I'm making out BIG with that one! Tall windscreen recall, well since mine has been back-ordered since May maybe when I finally get it I'll get the improved version.
Bottom line is just like I told them today, the pinging issue is the single reason I'll sell the bike, if I can't get it resolved. |
Davo
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 09:19 pm: |
|
xbimmer,
Check out Glitch next door. There is a fix.
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/211240.html?1153091226 |
Xbimmer
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 10:17 pm: |
|
Thanks Davo!
So the XB-other brothers are going through the same, so much for my Uly-remap theory.
Can't wait to get working on the re-time, like I said though, for the next few days I'm leaving well enough alone so my dealer can verify Grand Teton HD's work if necessary so I can get my $85 back.
I remain unusually optimistic and positive about my dealer since they seem like good individuals, perhaps they're just used to a lot of Chicken Littles. I don't whine unless there's something to whine about, they know that now.
I know it's gonna be all good!  |
Davo
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 10:31 pm: |
|
If they tell you that retarding the timing is a problem then ask them to explain how it may be a problem. There is a prevailing attitude that the stock setting is somewhat divined number and if it is changed it will mess up the fuel curve. I think it would be interesting to hear some facts to back up the claim.
Good Luck. |
Snowscum
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 10:50 pm: |
|
As far as I can tell its(pinging) a marketing tool for their direct link mapping at $470 a pop.
At least at the shop I goto. They say their the only ones in the state that can tune
a buell that way.
Xbimmer: I feel the say way you do about the selling cause of the ping. Im not quite at that point yet but..... |
Davo
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 11:01 pm: |
|
Put some HD fuel conditioner in until you can get back to the dealership. It will stop most of the pinging. They will try to correct the pining but I do not think they will do what needs to be done to fix the problem. Go next door and look at the xb forum and review "pinging, please elaborate" If you guys were closer to south central Virginia I would show you how easy it is to fix the problem. |
44mag
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 01:36 am: |
|
The easy fix is to retard the timing a bit. Professor Davo has the procedure. I did not need to retard the timing as much as he did, but it still got rid of the pinging.
Checking and changing the timing is only slightly more complicated than checking the oil. It is easy. Just be careful about the aluminum timing plug ... easy to strip. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 02:20 pm: |
|
"It started pinging after the 1000 mile oil change which they put that syn3 in."
Hmmm, doesn't the 1000 mile service also include a TPS reset? Hmmm... Can you see where I'm heading with this?... Sloppily performed TPS reset? |
Snowscum
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 02:36 pm: |
|
Is it easy to reset? |
Lowflyer
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 02:42 pm: |
|
Mobile 1 V-twin 20w50 here and no pinging under any conditions. Just got back from a 600+ mile jaunt to Tulsa in 100+ degree weather at 80 mph. Timing is set to factory spec. |
44mag
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 02:56 pm: |
|
TPS is easy to reset with the Vehicle Diagnostic Scan Tool for Windows software from American Sportbike.
http://www.americansportbike.com |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 03:34 pm: |
|
Yes, it is easy to reset (reflash the ECM), but it is also easy to reset improperly/poorly and cause problems. |
Teeps
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 05:05 pm: |
|
I speak from personal experience; when the TPS reset is not done right. The engine barely runs. The bike (mine anyway) could not be delivered in that condition. |
