| Author | Message | ||
     Bigwallfish |
What does "pinging" sound like? Is it loud enough so that it will be obvious, or is it a faint noise...I've never heard an engine ping before, so any feedback would be extremely helpful. | ||
| Glitch |
I've never heard an engine ping before Then you have nothing to worry about. Usually you'll hear it under heavy acceleration, under load. It sounds kind of like valves rattling. | ||
| Whodom |
On mine (when it rarely occurs), it sounds like marbles are bouncing around in the cylinders or like someone's hitting the tops of the pistons with a ball peen hammer. It's a relatively high pitched "tap" sound and it will be plenty loud enough for you to hear, even with ear plugs in. It will be most likely to occur under heavy throttle at low speed. Like Glitch said, if you haven't heard it, you don't have anything to worry about. It's not something that will happen without your realizing it. | ||
| Ride365 |
I agree that the term 'pinging' is very misleading to someone who doesn't already know what it defines... It's not really a 'pinging' sound, more like a ratlcraptatrattapcrakalap kinda sound! Ok so it's called 'pinging' for short screw it! But jus know it's not good! | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
...and the sound is kind of haphazard. It is not a steady ping-ping-ping-ping with pings spaced equidistantly. It is all over the place. It is rather unmistakable. Also as mentioned the term ping is misleading...it is more of a clatter. | ||
| Indy_bueller |
It sounds like a diesel engine running at low RPMs. | ||
| Buelltroll |
So what causes it n how do I get rid of it? I just noticed EXACTLY that the other day under load at about 60 if I rolled the throttle open I could hear rattling at around the top of the engine n wondered if that was pinging. Apparently it was. If it matters it was hot as hell out n I had just got done flogging her for about 2 hours. | ||
| Glitch |
If it matters it was hot as hell out n I had just got done flogging her for about 2 hours. It does, and more than likely that's what caused it, in your case. | ||
| Davo |
Pinging is the result of excessive heat and/or early timing. Those are the only two things that cause pinging. Excessive heat can be caused by low fuel octane rating, lean air to fuel ratio, intake manifold leak, cooling system (fan or oil) failure and long extending idling in hot weather with the bike standing still. Early timing is caused by excessive advance due to poor engineering and/or emission control requirements. I think that your pinging problem is a combination of summer heat, ethanol containing fuel, and early spark timing. The only way that I could eliminate my pinging was to retard my ignition timing 7-9 degrees later than the stock static timing setting. My bike does not ping anymore. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Heat, load, fuel octane,and sometimes timing are the most common causes of pinging. Pinging happens when the fuel ignites too early (before the piston hits TDC) if it happens for an extended time it can cause serious damage to the motor, but intermittently it is fairly common on Buells. Something about air cooled higher compression motors | ||
| Ride365 |
Setting you timing according to your local riding conditions and fuel type are a must! You can ride around for days ignoring the signs but pay big time eventually for something you could have prevented all along... Like Davo said, get that timing right bra! | ||
| Whodom |
Pinging happens when the fuel ignites too early (before the piston hits TDC) Slight clarification- pinging, "spark knock" or detonation occurs after the spark plug has fired. What happens is the flame front from the spark plug compresses the fuel/air mixture in front of it and conditions are right for it to light off on its own somewhere else in the combustion chamber. The two (or more) flame fronts collide and produce the characteristic knocking sound. This can eventually cause engine damage, but occasional minor spark knock is not a big deal. Retarding the timing reduces peak combustion pressures which helps prevent the secondary flame fronts from forming thereby stopping the knock. Pre-ignition occurs when the mixture lights off on its own before the plug even fires. This is caused by excessive heat, low octane fuel, excessive compression, carbon buildup in the combustion chamber, etc. This will put holes in your pistons, bend connecting rods & crankshafts, etc. There's a good discussion of all this here: http://www.misterfixit.com/deton.htm and here (with photos): http://www.hastingsmfg.com/Service%20Tips/detonation_and_preignition.htm | ||
| Kybueller |
Mine is doing this a little, can the shop reset my timing or mess a little with it. It was not doing it until I installed my D&D. Greg | ||
| Diablobrian |
Good call, and clarification Whodom I was over-simplifying things.  | ||
| Ride365 |
Higher compression = need for Higher octane/slower burning fuel... Pinging as you've very well summarized can be avoided simply with a higher octane fuel, or by retarding timing... Timing would most definitely be our least expensive answer to the problem in this high $$$ Dino fuel sucking mad-house we call planet earth! | ||
| Davo |
Assuming you do not have an intake manifold leak, and you probably don't there are only two options, fuel or timing. My opinion is to retard the timing till it stops. You can't refuel w/o software and a way to manipulate the AFV. The manual warns about overheating due to late timing. I disagree! If you are pinging then you will create more heat in the combustion chamber. When the pinging starts it usually gets worse due to increased heat in the combustion chamber. Heat creates pinging and pinging creates heat. The next time you are pinging just above 3000 rpm, open the throttle past 40 percent and if it goes away then it is clear that the there is a timing problem of it gets worse than it may not be a timing problem. At 3100rpm and TPS around 20 percent the advance is around 35 degrees from the static setting. At the same rpm when you pass 40 percent TPS the timing droops back (retards) to less than 25 degrees advance of the static setting. The problem is that you can not change the parameters without software but you can change the point of reference, the static setting. Most EFI vehicles do not have a mechanically adjustable CPS but the Buell still does but probably not for long. The reason is that their pinging problem is due to an over advanced ignition system for the fuel available for everyday riders. When irregular timing information was relayed to the factory their response was for me to throw away my timing light. I don’t think so, it was the timing light revealed the problem. My bike may hand grenade tomorrow but it will not be the result of pinging!!! | ||
| Luvthemtorts |
How can you tell the difference between pinging and the normal clatter of the top end? My top end sounds quite noisy and loud ALL of the time (even louder when I took the snorkel out). Pulls like a freight train and accelerates like a fiend but noisy. I also notice on certain days I get more of the decel popping than on other days. This actually varies day by day and can only assume it has something to do with the heat or humidity. | ||
| Davo |
The valve train noise is timed and pinging is very random. Chatter is valve train. Pinging sounds like you are dragging an empty coffee can on a string. If you ride at about 2700 rpm and let the engine just float along with very little throttle or load you will hear valve train chatter. If you quickly load the engine when it is hot then you will hear pinging. | ||
| Blake |
Pinging due to detonation sounds like there are ball bearings inside the combustion chambers of the engine, or like a diesel engine revving up from low speed. Valvetrain noise is more of a steady ticking sound. | ||
| Kybueller |
Is the timimg something we can adjust at home. I have the service manual. I will have to look. I am going to try and make sure I have good gas first though. They sell high octane fuel down the road. Greg | ||
| Slaughter |
One other source of pre-ignition is carbon deposits on a higher mileage engine holding the heat and acting as "glow plugs" which can ignite the fuel charge as it starts compression. Higher mileage motors are more likely to have this problem. To advance or retard the timing you CAN do it at home, just read the shop manual. I don't remember which way the XB timing plate needs to be moved but it can be done. I wouldn't necessarily do it if you were riding it on a hot day after some "spirited" riding and noticed it pinging. I'd almost consider it normal if I were rolling on the throttle hard on a hot motor. If it happened in almost every acceleration, that'd be different. There are no real guidelines to use in retarding the timing, you'd have to sneak up on it after checking all the other stuff. (Message edited by slaughter on July 08, 2006) | ||
| Cyclonecharlie |
If you are going to retard your own timing, make sure you mark your exisiting setting with a sharpie or something. So you have a point of reference and don't get lost. As a general rule the XB9 doesn't encounter this problem to the degree that the XB12 does(and the tubers) IMO...Charlie PS Just another reason I love my 9 | ||
| Kybueller |
Thanks Slaughter, I am hoping it was isolated and nothing regular. Thanks for starting this thread bigwallfish, it was a big help to me. Greg | ||
| Kootenay |
Yeah, helpful. My 9R makes a high-frequency ticking or rattling sound, somewhat loosely related to throttle opening--but it is NOT strictly related to acceleration, it happens when the engine is coasting or even decelerating, and fuel octane seems to have no effect on it. I assume it's valvetrain noise, and is more noticeable when hot because the oil thins out more... | ||
| Davo |
Kootenay, Orderly ticking is valve train lash. It is normal on all HD engines. It should be very obvious from 2700-3000 rpm when you are floating along at low throttle. The roller lifters create the lash when they drop off the cam lobe. The lobes have a steep rise and fall on them so the hydraulic lifters take a fraction of a second to fill with oil and take up the lash. | ||
| Vaneo1 |
Soooooo... If I get pinging on hot days (which is most of the time here) and the engine feels as if it takes twice as much throttle to accelerate, contrast to cold days when I receive zero pinging and the engine acceleration feels as a litre bike should then does that mean that its not a timing/ static problem? | ||
| Vaneo1 |
PS. Is this something that should be fixed under warranty? | ||
| Davo |
It is my opinion that it is a timing problem but there is only about two other people in the free World that agree with me on this issue. The dealer can't fix it because I believe their procedure is flawed and even if they understood the situation they couldn't legally change the timing that much and still comply within predetermined emission control obligations. When I questioned their procedure through a dealer the factory response was to throw away the light. If I had not used the light I wouldn't have known about the timing disparity between the factory "straight up" setting vs. the VDSTS real time data. One of the two is wrong! I think it is the factory. | ||
| Wademan |
Is the timimg something we can adjust at home. I have the service manual. I will have to look. I am going to try and make sure I have good gas first though. They sell high octane fuel down the road. I thought the XB engines took premium? | ||
| Buelltroll |
91 minimum |
