| Author | Message | ||
     Ride365 |
Just wondering if anyone has done the chain drive conversion on their xb, and how they like it? I hear you loose a little bit of torque on a belt drive, which makes sense why the race bikes are usually converted to chain... Anyone know approximately how much torque say on the xb12? Thanks folks! | ||
| Bads1 |
You don't lose torque from the belt. The race bikes have chains because of gearing selection. | ||
| Ride365 |
You may not lose much, but you do lose something, whether it's noticeable or not I don't know because haven't been able to compare first hand... The fact that there is slightly less torque was coming from a few very experienced moto mechs (one being my pops), who were suprised when I showed them the Buell and they saw it was belt drive... I don't think it really matters but just curious what the diff is or if anyone has tried the chain and liked it more... | ||
| Diablobrian |
The real reason race bikes convert to chain is for the ability to change gearing to suit the track, that and the durability when you have to change tires at least once a weekend. If it wasn't for that I'm sure most teams would like to keep the lower weight of the belt drive. I have a chain drive on my street bike. Hal's built my bike as a demo for their Speed Shop, Hal's Performance Advantage (or PA). It is a kit usually aimed at race teams and costs $2500 or so. There are places like American Sport Bike, and Trojan that sell much more affordable conversions for street riders. I love my chain drive. I keep hearing about "zero maintenance" belts, but then I hear about the need to inspect it frequently to check for cracking, fraying, holes etc. That doesn't sound like zero maintenance to me. Even after all of that people do have the belts fail suddenly, and sometimes catastrophically. I'd rather lube my chain occasionally. Chain wax does not spray all over the place like the old oils used to, and a chain will not fail suddenly except under the most bizarre circumstances. But that's just me. Some people have had absolutely no problems with their belts. Some have had nothing but trouble. It depends on a lot of factors, like climate, riding style, and location. Some have had issues with chains before, but I'd guess there are fewer people percentage wise that have been left on the side of the road by a failed chain than by a failed belt, and most of those were due to negligence on the part of the operator. I have no studies to prove it only anecdotal evidence, so there is certainly room for dispute. BTW modern belts have virtually NO stretch and therefore you do not really lose torque. | ||
| Bads1 |
The belts on Xb's do not stretch if they do its a bad belt. HD's that your pop's are used to working on don't have tensioners on them.... Buells do. There are many on this board that have chains... they will chime in. Both are great setups but a belt on a XB is a great set up for its intended use. Sorry but there are many on this board that won't agree with your Dad and some of them race them. | ||
| Ride365 |
Kool, well I'm thinking any bit of difference is probably so minimal it's not worrying about torque-wise... I do seem to hear about a lot more belt problems, and I have personally never had a problem with a chain drive... I guess I'll stick with the belt and if it goes crap then I'll seriously consider the chain conversion... Thanks again Folks! You guys Rock!  | ||
| Ulendo |
one item I've never seen brought up, but thats relevant to this: what happens when a belt DOES fail? I'm assuming it simply zips around inside the guards, possibly disintigrating? if someone who's had one fail can chime in, I'd very much like to hear about it. reason I ask is many years ago, I had the afore mentioned 'almost never happens' catastrophic chain failure. CB350, down in a corner, at speed, down shifted, and one of the rollers in the chain failed. the roller separated, bending the link: locked the rear wheel up, threw it out of line ( darn near blew it off the back of the bike, is more accurate) needless to say I laid it down HARD - to this day I have a vivid memory of sliding along on my back, watching my bike do a succession of 30' high bunny hops, end over end, through a cloud of dust! I was lucky - full gear, and a divided road, so I didn't go into oncoming traffic. if the belts can save ANYONE a similar incident, thats a pretty good reason to have them on street bikes!! | ||
| No_rice |
well as many on here know, my belt stripped about 6-8 inches of teeth off as i hit second gear hard. causing it to free wheel for a second and then catch and flip over backwards launching me off of the bike and i got to slide down the road and watch it end for ending. i have been lucky in the fact that the last 2 have just broken. one i was idling in first gear in the parking lot. and before you say its because of the N2O, 2 of those belts never even had the bottles opened on them. so if you do the math im on my fourth belt in 12,000 miles. i have a chain conversion from kevin being machined as we speak. | ||
| Ulendo |
no_rice - not to make an issue of it, but in your own words lightened by way of removing reflectors, belt guards, do you think removing the guards might be contributing to the breakages? ( not trying to hassle you on this - I'm using my CityX like a Uly on dirt, mud, etc, so keeping the belt intact is a concern for me) (Message edited by ulendo on July 03, 2006) | ||
| Aussie_buell |
i think the race buells have chains because their belts arent strong enough for that punishment. if its just chain for gearing reasons wouldnt you think a multi million dollar company would have belt lengths to suit the low number of different sprocket combo's OR they would just use a belt tension system like the X1 and M2's. then they can change sprockets and take up slack with tension system. Let face it if they have a huge variation in sprockets they will have chain lengths to suit too. IMO its cause the belts wont hack it and they know it. my opinion only i am sure many will disagree. | ||
| No_rice |
no worries, no signs of damage to the belt at all. i have seen some that have broken because of rocks and the break isnt as clean. my first one ran almost 9000 miles or so before it broke, with no belt guards. it was even the original 03 belt | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
One of the dirty little secrets in the Hal's Chain conversion is that the wheelbase is about 3 inches longer that stock. Just like a real motorcycle. I have never been able to understands Erik's enthusiasm for the short wheelbase, and as I have both a short wheelbase belt drive nine, and a long wheelbase chaindrive twelve, I greatly prefer the later. A lot more stable, just like Trip Noble said it would be.  And I don't expect the chain to break just when I decide to do something stupid like the belt on my nine did. | ||
| Ride365 |
Hmmmm I knew I wasn't crazy for askin this question! I am going to seriously consider the chain drive, not that it's so critical that I think the belt is pure crap, just that the chain is a bit superior, and I'm used to it, that whole tried/tested/true philosophy! So is that just an extension piece added on Hal's swingarm or is that whole new longer swingarm? | ||
| Aussie_buell |
interesting Gentlman_Jon - never really thought about geometry, but makes sense. As you may of guessed from my bitterness I have broken a belt before, not doing anything out of te ordinary, and what erkes me the most is all of Buells advertising with them doing burnouts and wheelies. Dont get me wrong, i love my Buell. As for the chain being superior, well maybe, but chains can brake too dont forget, and when they do they may either lock your back wheel or smash your casings, at least the belt just spits out the back and your mates just run over it like its a Black snake on the road. Having said all that, if i kept braking belt i would consider the chain. lots of dollars tho. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
It is just an extension piece welded on to a stock swing arm. A very sturdy well designed piece at that. The removable "swing arm brace" on the right side of the swing arm which is removed when changing belts is welded shut, strengthening the swing arm. The modified swing arm is delivered in raw sandblasted aluminum. Mine is shown in black thanks to Photoshop. Going to paint it soon. One other advantage of the chain is the ease of changing wheels. Takes about a minute. Since I seem to change tires three or four times a year because of wear or damage, I really appreciate not having to fool around with the tapered axle, belt guards, belt tensioner, swing arm brace, and so forth. I used to really hate that part of Buell fun. Aussie, One doesn't need the Hal's conversion to go to chain. One of the brothers, Saintly, did a very workmanlike conversion for less than the cost of a new belt. Of course he is a pro. (Message edited by gentleman_jon on July 03, 2006) | ||
| Ride365 |
Well Al stands by his hardware, and has a chain kit on the site, I'd trust it... I'm definitely going for it now, that whole pain in the arsh about chaning tires is true from what I've heard, and I'm not looking forward to it! | ||
| Ronlv |
my bike has chain and i love it, click on my username to see picks | ||
| Dcmortalcoil |
How does a chain drive make it more easier to change the rear wheel? There is no need to remove the belt tensioner to change the rear wheel. You can slide the belt off the rear sprocket once the axle is removed (so that you can move the rear wheel forward). I find removing the rear wheel really simple with the current belt system. Plus, there is no need to mess with aligning the rear wheel. With chain you need to adjust for proper tension as well as alignment. To me that's a real hassle. | ||
| Trojan |
i think the race buells have chains because their belts arent strong enough for that punishment. We used a belt for a short while on our 2006 race bike until the chain kit was ready. The belt lasted 3 meetings on the track before stripping ALL of it's teeth off, leaving the outer part of the belt unmarked. We were very lucky that the debris didn't jam the front pulley. The chain kit that Al sells is the same as the one that we designed/supply but with Vortex sprockets. The big advantages of our type of kit over the usual 'weld in some swingarm adjusters' kit are: 1. All chain adjustment is taken care of using the modified idler pulley adjuster, so wheelbase always stays constant regardless of sprocket size or chain adjustment. 2. The rear wheel is ALWAYS perfectly aligned and no setting up is required. 3. The swingarm stays as original so retains ALL it's original strength. 4. It is far cheaper to buy and you can swap back to a belt in under an hour if you wish   P.S. I tend to agree with Jon about the longer wheelbase. Our racer is based on the Ulysses chassis so has the longer swingarm and slightly less steep steering angle. Handling is better than our 'old' XB9R based bike with no loss of steering speed. The bike is rock stable at every circuit we have been to so far. (Message edited by trojan on July 04, 2006) | ||
| Aussie_buell |
thankyou Trojan, that clarifies a lot of areas for my own interests at least. I like your chain conversion, and the fact you can revert if need too. | ||
| Ride365 |
Ronlv - NICE! VERY NICE! So I'm guessing the gearing changes slightly at least when you convert to chain right? So is there a bit of tuning that needs to be done after the chain conversion to allow for any increase/decrease of rpm's at speeds in different gears? | ||
| Trojan |
So is there a bit of tuning that needs to be done after the chain conversion to allow for any increase/decrease of rpm's at speeds in different gears? That is the beauty of it. You can play around with ratios to your hearts content really. We have 20 & 21T front sprockets plus any size of rear between 40 & 51. To be honest though it normally comes down to a choice of only one or two. Our favourite is the 21T front and 51T rear although I haven't played around too much with the smaller front yet. | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
I was thinking of doing this conversion also and had saved a set up for cheap money. never did it but it looks like it would work. it consisted of: Front sprocket(21 teeth); V-twin # 19-0384 / $13.97 Rear sprocket (51 teeth); Vortex (Odessa Fl.) # 827-51 / $63.95 + 6.95 shipping 530 diamond chain; V-twin # 19-0326 / $37.49 Idler pulley; Gates # 38023 / $16.78 (AND its available in ANY autozone in USA!) Total cost: $139.14 (YES it IS less than the cost of ONE belt!!!!) the price on the sprocket is still $13.97 The chain costs $38.50 for diamond standard. A call to your local autozone should get you a current price on the idler pulley. And a call to Vortex in FL should get you their current sprocket price. just something i thought i would share. forgot who had it posted at one time. anyone ever try this? | ||
| Hammer71 |
The post is from Saintly. Forget who the other badwebber is that brainstormed it with him but it's been on his bike for a few thousand miles now with no issues. And considering he broke 3 belts prior to converting I'd say he's happy with it. | ||
| Bubabuell |
So what about cush drive? Or lack thereof? Is there any snatchy feeling with the chain conversions? Wait...Ignorant question, Trojan, but the Uly wheelbase is the same as the Ss, right? (Message edited by bubabuell on July 04, 2006) | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Our race bike uses the best of both. We started with a swing arm modified by Brian at Rev Perf, but this year we added the Trojan adjustment sprocket. Now we can change the wheel base from track to track and still keep the chain adjusted. I have just sold and installed one in a track bike I am building for a customer. He is still using the stock swing arm and I think it will work great. ... It's a nice piece. ... Terry | ||
| Ronlv |
a home made chain conversion doesnt even come close to the real thing (been there done that) | ||
| Pcmodeler |
I got my conversion from Ronlv. Talked with him on the phone for quite a bit after seeing the conversion on his. I'd love to show you picks but I'm waiting for parts to come back from the powder coater. I do agree with Ron about the quality of the parts. For example, the tensioner is a work of art. Nothing against the autozone method, but the adjustment is done by slotting out the bracket for the tensioner. I just don't trust that or having the chain wear gouges into the pulley and allowing those to align the chain. | ||
| Saintly |
a home made chain conversion doesnt even come close to the real thing (been there done that) Please elaborate. How many miles do you have on your "real thing"? I've got 8000+ miles it seems pretty real to me. And If I run a vortex rear sprocket (which I do) on my kit and I run some high quality O-ring chain and A sportster front sprocket, then the difference all boils down the the idler pulley which by the way "idles" and takes no tension or load when you're accellerating. PCmodeler, the idler does not rely on gouges for alignment. The front and rear sprockets do the alignment, the idler simple takes up the chain slack. Anyway, I'm not tyring to take ANYTHING AWAY from Hal's, Al's, Trojans, or Rons kits. They are ALL beautifull and I'm sure that they work as promised. I'm just offering another option, and a very low cost one at that. I guess I get a little insulted when so far I've heard my kit referred to as: "something cobbled together from auto parts" and now: "not the real thing" My kit works great for me and for a few others also. I'f you want to put it up against the "real thing" I'm up the the challenge. I'll let you know how my "cobbled auto parts" do on a 1500-1900 mile trip to Tennessee next week. | ||
| Diablobrian |
firebolteric_ma, don't waste time and money on a cheap chain. Buy an o-ring, x-ring etc.. chain. They are more durable, and the chain lube for them doesn't fling everywhere (assuming you don't overlube it). Anyway, the chain is not the place to cut corners. The budget chain conversions are a great idea in my book. Just be sure to use components that are up to the task. |
