| Author | Message | ||
     Sanchez |
My new cams and header wrap both arrived today. How convenient! After almost a month of downtime due to a gearcase cover gasket leak, I'm almost back up and running. The new cams are in, the gearcase, sprocket, and timing covers are on, and the lifters and pushrod covers are installed. If I didn't misdiagnose the problem or break something else in the process of fixing it, I should be back on the road with an extra 10 horsepower by lunch time tomorrow. | ||
| Sanchez |
IT'S ALIIIIVE! And holy shit it sounds mean without a muffler.  I had to wear ear plugs just to stand next to it idling. | ||
| Hippyjoe |
What cams did you get? Take any pics? | ||
| Oldog |
Glad to hear that all went well, funny about scope creep. Ride safe.. | ||
| Cyclonecharlie |
Way to go Sanchez, Your gonna love the way she runs. Five miles down the road, look in the mirror and check out that big smile. You da man. | ||
| Sanchez |
> What cams did you get? Take any pics? I ended up with some Screamin' Eagles. They have equivalent specs to an Andrew N4 or the factory X1 cams. I didn't get any pics of the new cams, but there are shots of the tear down in the other thread. With the exception of some hard-to-reach rocker box bolts and the contortions I had to do to get the front rocker box cover back through the frame, the project was fairly easy. It was mostly just time consuming, and of course every new project requires making a new tool. I snuck one easy ride in last night after I put the exhaust back on, but then I got caught in some heavy rain, so I haven't had a chance to really open it up yet. I was planning to head up into the mountains today, but the forecast calls for thunderstorms all day.  | ||
| Cmgaviao |
Hmm....radar shows the mtns totally covered right now....but nothing else inbound...its probably worth it to try for an evening ride Sanchez...I'm shooting for 7pm. Everything should be mostly dry by then and it should be nice and cool in the evening... | ||
| Hippyjoe |
Screamin' Eagles... equivalent specs to an Andrew N4 or the factory X1 cams. I didn't get any pics of the new cams, but there are shots of the tear down in the other thread. Yeah, I saw the leaking thread, pretty ugly... That sounds like the cams I've got waiting to go in my M2... the "bolt-in" .497's... Glad to hear you like 'em. The Nallin site said they had good results with those cams. Were they a true bolt-in, did the gears mesh well? What did you get for end play? Any shortcuts you can recommend? Definitely interested on the performance of these over stock... how is the torque, how is the cruising in traffic? What side of Atlanta are you guys on? I get out to Roswell every now and again. | ||
| Sanchez |
Yep, I got mine from NRHS. They fit right in, and they were pretty easy to get lined up. I didn't check the end play. I can't speak to the performance yet since I haven't really had a chance to open the throttle. I took it pretty easy last night because I was concerned with whether or not the bike was going to explode in some way. Just cruising around at low rpm, it didn't feel noticeably different. Unfortunately I never dyno tested the bike prior to the cams, but I'll definitely get it done now. If you're going to tackle this job, you'll need a 3/16" hex key with the short end cut in half to get at the right rear rocker box cover bolt. As for shortcuts, here are some things I did: - The manual says to remove the carb, but you don't have to. I got the front rocker box cover out through the right side of the frame after unbolting the horn and ignition module to give it room to rotate. - The front rocker box itself comes out through the top of the frame. You'll need to cut some zip ties holding the big wiring bundle over it. - There's an oil line connected to the gearcase cover, and it doesn't have enough slack to get the cover off the cams. You can disconnect the line from the oil bag side and pull it through to give yourself some room. I didn't disconnect either that line or the cam position sensor wire. I just propped the cover up on my drain pan so it wasn't hanging by them. > What side of Atlanta are you guys on? I get out to Roswell every now and again. I'm in Dunwoody over on the northeast side of the perimeter, and there are other 3%ers all over Atlanta. Next time you're out this way you should drop us a line. > I'm shooting for 7pm. Do you live over in this area? If so, you, me, and Black_sunshine should hook up for an urban assault once things dry up and B_s gets his bike running again. | ||
| Hippyjoe |
Thanks Sanchez, will do. I like to disturb as little as possible in the engine. I'm going to try leaving the front rocker box alone and turning the engine over to get to the cams. I'd really rather leave both boxes alone, cause Harley replaced the gaskets and they're not leaking... but I'd rather not ding a bushing even more. Anyway I'm sure the top end is going to be stronger... I ride more in the bottom, so I'm interested how the torque and rideability are. How's the idle? I'm trying to motivate myself to start tearing into things.... What ignition are you running? An engine builder I know says to give it 50-100 miles after a cam swap before getting on it, to let the tappet rollers settle in to the new cams. Cool that you got it together. | ||
| Sanchez |
It was annoying to get the front upper rocker box cover off, but it seems like it would be even worse trying to put the cams back in while juggline the lifters and push rods. I could be wrong though. The idle sounds about like it did. I had to dial up the idle adjustment a bit, but that might have as much to do with the bike sitting for a month as with the new cams. I'm running the factory ignition. It looks like we've got another day of thunderstorms ahead of us, but I'm almost at 50 miles already anyway. I can start riding it to work again tomorrow and maybe get it on the dyno Thursday. | ||
| Chasespeed |
An engine builder I know says to give it 50-100 miles after a cam swap before getting on it, to let the tappet rollers settle in to the new cams. Misconception, and a little confusion.. On a typical cam initall, IN A VEHICLE, you run the motor initially at 2500-3000rpm, to run the cams in, flat tappet, it allow the tappet to wear in to the cam(s).. With a roller, this isnt needed..no harm in it, BUT, with a roller, there is NO lateral motion, where as a flat tappet, rotates in the tube..and the cam lobes for a flat tappet cams are tappered slightly, as it uses the lifters, to help keep the cam from walking, thats why on a regular, roller motor, there is a need for a "cam button", to minimize end play in teh cam... Anyway, again, nothing wrong with waiting a little while, to let the everything settle out, but...on a roller motor, not required.. My 2 cents Chase} | ||
| Hippyjoe |
It was annoying to get the front upper rocker box cover off, but it seems like it would be even worse trying to put the cams back in while juggline the lifters and push rods. I could be wrong though. Sanchez-- I'm just going to take it a step at a time. If I can't juggle the lifters, I'll pull the front box. It's been over 10 years since I looked into a Sporty gear case and I don't even remember what I had for dinner last night. So I appreciate the input. Misconception, and a little confusion.. Chase-- that's a rude way to step into a conversation. Who's confused--me, or the guy who told me that? Rich has been building and designing Harley motors exclusively for 30 years, he's the best motor man I've found. He builds his own cases, cylinders, and heads. He makes his living building engines. And rebuilding others' f*ckups, he's seen it all. The reason I recall his advice is because he gave me some input on a cam install I just did. I've been riding and wrenching on Harleys for 20 years, and there's no rotating part of that engine I can think of that doesn't have play built in. I've checked Harley rollers, Jim's, Crane, Accel, Sifton, they all move. Cams wear, rollers wear, bearings wear, it's miniscule in a healthy engine but if you're swapping one component in a working valvetrain, best not jump on it until things have had a chance to settle in together. Really, common sense will tell you that. Check the wear across lobes and rollers on a rebuild, that'll tell you things wear randomly. Why is that? Play. It's not your message so much as your word choice that's rude. As you said, you're just offering an opinion. Anyway, try walking up to two bikers, one of whom you don't know, the other, maybe you do, maybe you don't, and say, "that's a misconception, you're a little confused." And then start talking car engines. I guarantee it won't go over. Better to talk to people online the same way you would in person, right? | ||
| Chasespeed |
DELETED By Chaser (Message edited by chasespeed on June 26, 2006) (Message edited by chasespeed on June 26, 2006) | ||
| Sanchez |
They say something like 50% of the emotional context you try to convey over the internet is completely lost. It's easy for someone to read a sentence in a completely different way than the poster intended it. Now back to the subject at hand. I took the bike out last night and spent some time WTFO. The bike pulls smoothly all the way to redline now. Before, it felt like there was a flat spot up top. If there was a loss of low end torque, it isn't noticeable at all in normal riding. Unfortunately I spent 6 weeks off the bike for various reasons and I didn't spend much time WTFO before anyway, so it's hard to make a side-by-side comparison. I'm scheduled for a dyno session on Monday, so I'll follow up with some graphs. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Did you dyno the bike before the cam change? | ||
| Sanchez |
> Did you dyno the bike before the cam change? No. If I'd known I was going to be swapping cams, I'd have done so, but it was kind of a surprise. | ||
| M2nc |
I have a similar, though far less severe leak on my M2. I was thinking about the cam change too. I would love to hear the results from the dyno. |
