| Author | Message | ||
     44mag |
Well ... I took out the timing plug to check the timing since I was pinging (it was advanced). When I screwed the timing plug in, the thread insert stripped. However, I did not even come close to the factory torque settings. I screwed it in by hand until it stopped, and then went to snug it up to the spec of 120 in-lbs. It spun freely. I did NOT apply any excess torque ... I did not even get close to the torque spec. I doubt that this will be covered by warranty ... but I will ask. I am a pilot and have maintained any rebuilt airplanes which has made me INSANE about proper torque values. I backed the damn thing out and the threads were destroyed. Note that I did not cross thread the damned thing ... I screwed it in by HAND and then snugged it up (barely) with the torque wrench. This is Bull Sh1t! Oh yeah .. I even cleaned out the threads first because I noticed metal flakes ... I should have known that the threads were bad. BULL SH1T!!!!! How hard is it to put in your own heli-coil or equivalent? | ||
| 44mag |
what happens if I get metal flakes inside the timing hole where the fly wheel is? Will it be filtered out by the oil filter? Any idea how I can fix this problem? | ||
| Davo |
44 mag, Was it the plug or the case that stripped? Both are aluminum. You should be ok with a trace amount of aluminum in the case. You would be surprised how much magnetic metal/ steel is in a oil filter. some folks us small magnets on the oil filters to keep the sharp fragments off the media and the plug is magnetic as well. Tiny aluminum slivers are not going to hurt the internal components. All of your bearings are steel rollers that are significantly harder than the aluminum. Now back to the torque spec, the threads stripped with less than 120 inch lbs? (10 FT-LBS) I pull my plug countless times and go back to 120 inch-lbs and sometimes 130 inch-lbs. We pulled the plug on a XR 750 about 20 times in the last two days and would guess the plug has been removed hundreds of times over the engines life. It is very similar to a xb12x. | ||
| 44mag |
The case is stripped. It looks like I could put a time-sert insert in, like the guy with the stripped oil plug. I really think that the dealer cross-threaded the plug when they last checked my timing. If I do get metal flakes in where the flywheel is, will the oil filter remove them? I assume that oil circulates in that area, but I am not sure. Thanks for the help. | ||
| 44mag |
The threads stripped with barely more torque than I could apply by hand. They were already damaged when I removed the plug. | ||
| Whodom |
If I do get metal flakes in where the flywheel is, will the oil filter remove them? I assume that oil circulates in that area, but I am not sure. 44, anything that gets in the crankcase will be drawn through the scavenging side of the oil pump and sent to the oil reservoir in the swingarm. The pressure side of the pump then draws oil from the swing arm and then pumps it through the filter before it goes back to the engine. So, the oil filter should catch all the flakes before they get to the engine, but they will have to go through both sides of the oil pump before they get filtered out. | ||
| Davo |
44mag, You are in good shape with the crankcase being cleaned up by the oil filter. You are lucky to have found the problem while you were at home. If the threads were that torn up it was only a matter of time before the plug would have come out. There is quite a bit of pressure in the crank case at the location of the timing hole. We run certain engines and time them with the plugs removed without a prism insert and in a matter of seconds the garage is filled with an oil mist. We have to wrap the timing light in a plastic bag and the light reader wears a rubberized apron and goggles. If the plug were to come out on the highway you would have had hot oil all over your leg and everything behind it. | ||
| Davo |
By the way where was your mark at "fuel pump on"? | ||
| 44mag |
It was 1/2 way between the left side of the hole and the center ... it was advanced. The dealer retarded the timing twice, and it was still advanced. I reset it so it was very slightly retarded. I have picture that I will post. | ||
| 44mag |
So far the dealer is very cool. They are coming to pick up the bike. Good start. | ||
| Davo |
44mag, Thanks for the info. I don't think they timed it correctly if it was to the left of straight up and it should not have moved unless the cps plate was loose. I spoke to very knowledgeable Buell enthusiast today and I was informed that the timing at idle should be zero according to the stock timing map. Therefore my readings at 1 degree BTDC is accurate if the ECM was using the "zero" as the beginning of an "algorithmic" curve and therefore posting a whole number instead of zero. In short if you can get a timing light on the mark at idle then you can put it straight up. It is my guess that you won't even see the mark because it is over near 11 O'clock. The challenge here is getting an inductive pick up around a two inch spark plug wire in a tiny space too small for a mouse. I used a custom made extension wire (Being careful not to arc up my frame!). My mark is straight up at idle with the timing light and just beyond the right side of the hole at "fuel pump on". I promise to let everyone know if I toast my engine! Right now its running great! (Message edited by davo on June 23, 2006) | ||
| Al_lighton |
Davo, Please send your phone number to sales-at-americacansportbike-dot-com, I want to talk to you about something I discovered on this last night. Al | ||
| Davo |
Al, If I am too far in left field on the timing issue please let me know asap there is a least one bike depending on my credibility. I hope the numbers in VDSTS are correct and are directly relevant to TDC. I am eager to hear about what you have discovered. I spent all day with a dyno tech and he was not very confident of Buell's VDO-EFI. Pruning the O2 was his the only solution to getting around AVF factor. I hope all is well at American Sport Bike. | ||
| 44mag |
I noticed that american sport bike has a timing plug with a window. That would eliminate the need to remove the plug and eliminate the risk of stripping the insert. Probably a good idea. Al, Do you know if I can get windowed timing plugs that are longer? SInce the stock plug is short, only the 1st half of the threads are stripped. The dealer is having a longer plug made to screw into the rear threads that are not damaged. If possible, I would like a window so I can avoid this problem. | ||
| Davo |
44mag, A factory timing plug window for and XL is real long but it is plastic and is for temporary use only. You actually have to be very careful not to screw it in and touch the crank. I go in and touch the crank and back out at least a turn. You need to wear safety glasses. I have hed a plug rattle out backwards and shoot back out of the hole and that is wear you are looking! If you try it without a plug you will need a rubber apron, a respirator and some goggles with windshield wipers. | ||
| 44mag |
Too bad that the window plug is only for temporary use. Would be nice to not worry about the threads. I noticed that the metal on the timing plate is very soft. Is there a technical reason for this or is it simply a cost cutting measure? Cheap is good, put it needs to be quality. | ||
| Davo |
I do not know. I think it is only a weight issue. The problem is that the plate gets a little impression memory from the original setting. | ||
| 44mag |
Problem solved. Paradise Harley Davidson in Oregon fixed the problem under warranty. They were very helpful and professional. I am happy. | ||
| Davo |
Great news! | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
The good guys win! |
