| Author | Message | ||
     Imonabuss |
BTW, I actually do hope the bikes stay painted in factory colors because at least you can identify what bike it is! When they are painted yellow they will be seen as Yamahas, red will be another Honda. In a sea of fast moving race bikes with the distance from the track that you usually have, it is hard for spectators to see. I've been waiting a long time to see Buells on the track, and I don't want to miss them! | ||
| Trojan |
You shouldn't be able to miss them with the noise they make  Although I am told that the XB-RR is pretty quiet. They need a belt driven primary like ours has. You can't mistake that noise for anything other than our bike! Sounds like a cross between a jet fighter and a supercharger!  | ||
| Jimidan |
Mutant racer sez: "thanks , i just cant take all the bashing from buellers , and i wish i was a youth . age 35". What bashing? Other than a few trollers like "Pissin' on your Parade", there really hasn't been anyone on here "bashing Buells". What we are debating here are the finer points of marketing and race scheduling...not whether there should be an XBRR racing program. Almost everybody on here wants MORE Buell participation in AMA FX (the class that the XBRR was custom made to fit), not less! Almost everybody on here wants MORE HD MoCo sponsorship of the XBRR program, not less! The main point of contention seems to be between those that believe the XBRR was launched as a factory effort and are DISAPPOINTED that it was not (and that the money is gone), and those that do not. I think it may be beneficial to go back and read some of the archives with your statement about bashing Buells in mind and I think you will see what I am saying is true. Most everyone who have had constructive criticisms of the programs lack of adequate funding are intense Buell fans, like myself. I think what a lot of us would really like to see is you on the back of one of these XBRRs riding for Liberty Buell. Bashing Buells? Where did that come from? jimidan (Message edited by jimidan on June 20, 2006) | ||
| Jimidan |
Imonabus sez: "BTW, I actually do hope the bikes stay painted in factory colors because at least you can identify what bike it is! When they are painted yellow they will be seen as Yamahas, red will be another Honda. In a sea of fast moving race bikes with the distance from the track that you usually have, it is hard for spectators to see. I've been waiting a long time to see Buells on the track, and I don't want to miss them!" I really don't care much for the XBRR paint scheme, but hey I would root for them if they were chocolate brown. They really aren't hard to pick out of the crowd as the shape of the front fairing is very unique, and probably the only bike out there that was designed in a wind tunnel. All the rest of the bikes have aftermarket race fairings that look exactly alike. Look for the mushroom coming down the straight away. | ||
| Soloyosh |
Imonabus sez: "The concept of "liveries" is not alive and well in the US, which is fine by me. Most folks do run their bikes in the paint scheme delivered by the factory because it costs more to get custom paint done. I guess it's different from England, perhaps because of the legacy of knoghts riding for certain nobility's colors. Here in the US this is not the case, as you see most club racers and many privateer AMA guys with stock paint jobs. In motocross at the top pro level it is also this way. Kawasakis are green, Suzuki and Yamaha vacillate back and forth between yellow and blue, Honda is always red, and KTM and H-D both run orange. So the fact that the bikes had the same colors is not at all a surprise here. Some folks re-paint, but most save the money for other more crucial things, like travel between races which is much more expensive than in Europe." I'd have disagree with this. I'm not sure about club racing but I think the AMA requires an enclose bottom on the bodywork for Pro Racing. Because of this nearly everyone runs aftermarket bodywork. This bodywork is usually delivered in some sort of primer white. So unless you just start sticking your decals on the primer, you're gonna have to paint it. And by my logic if Suzuki didn't give you the bike for free, why would you paint it up like one of their bikes? Found the rule under Section E: General Equipment Standards, Item 17g "On all motorcycles the fairing bottom section must be constructed in such a fashion to form a fluid catch pan capable of retaining a minimum of 3 quarts of liquid." The rule does allow for the modification of the stock bodywork but plastic welding modifications into the stock bodywork seems like it would be way more hassle and heavier than the aftermarket fairings designed for this. Cheers Brett | ||
| Diablobrian |
Soloyosh is right on this one. The fairings on the race bikes are all aftermarket. The "race glass" is lighter and meets the belly pan requirements. If you look around the pits at the races other than certain colors being popular with certain brands there are tremendous variations in the paint on race bikes and even to get stock style paint schemes you have to have it custom painted to match the factory plastic. which is usually more expensive than having a unique design because of time involved in layout trying to replicate someone else's design, colors,and sense of proportion. | ||
| Jimidan |
Jose' sez: "Here's all the casual observer or fan at the track sees: The Track/TV anouncers call them 'Buells', the TV labels them as 'Buells', they look like they have 'Buell' front fairings and the frames 'look' like the XB frames. If you add up all the 7 second passes that a 'Buell' is on the TV during a NHRA drag race, it blows the amount of Roadracing Buells out of the water in terms of TV exposure. In terms of bang for the buck, in terms of support dollars (near zero) to exposure and 'results' the NHRA Drag Racing Buells are hard to beat. HD does a lot of market research, I wonder if they have asked new Buell owners which they are more aware of, NHRA 'Buells' or AMA FX 'Buells'. They might be surprised by the answer. If I was a Buell dealer with an AMA event or an NHRA event nearby, my guess is that I would generate more 'foot traffic' later by taking the bikes to display to the Drag Race." Jimidan: What you say would be true except that I believe your assumptions are incorrect, IMHO. It appears that you are assuming that demographics have little or nothing to do with marketing desires. Just throwing the name "Buell" out into the void of the general public, who could give a crap less for sportbikes anyway, is not very efficient marketing. That is why market research so huge now, where targeted marketing is king. I don't think it really makes much difference in Buell sales if a large quantity of disinterested folks hear the name "Buell" at a drag race (or while watching it on TV). Most folks go to the strip (or tune-it-in on the TV) to watch funny cars and rails race, and bikes are pretty much an afterthought...and there is relatively few of them. You might as well try and sell Buells at NASCAR events...but we all know that Bubba ain't buying no Buell. He may buy a Harley cruiser, or even a metric cruiser, but he is in the wrong demographic. Marketers are generally not stupid, as they spend a lot of money to determine where they will get the best bang for their buck. HD is the exception, as it has not been particularly savvy when it comes to marketing Buells. They don't do such a great job selling them in their showrooms either. This is the stuff of legend. Sportbike manufacturers buy a heck of a lot of time on SPEED during bike races though. Why? Cause that is where their direct marketing research tells them their customers are. Not at drag races, where the folks are watching funny cars and rails and go get the hot dogs during the short intermission while the "Buells" and "Harleys" race against "Suzukis" and "Kaws". Plus, even if for some strange reason some of these folks did want to buy a Buell after watching some dragster at the strip that the announcer called a Buell, he isn't going to find anything that looks remotely like what he saw at the track (really long and low), but rather a really short wheel base and relatively tall sportbike. jimidan | ||
| Jetbuilder |
I am basing my anti Buell bias from the "Mother Ship" partially on personal experience and also what I see as a fan of road and drag racing. I for the life of me cannot understand why HD is willing to just give an entire market away to there competition when we have an effective platform in the XB that could use just a little $ to be effective at all levels to include AMA superbike. I am a die hard V Twin US made bike. I wont ride a rice rocket but I am also a Race fan,and yes I spend $ just to see harleys and buells run at both the drag`s and road course. I just feel like as a group (Buellers) HD likes our $ but would prefer we keep quiet about what Buells are really capable of at all levels. Just my humble opinion as a fan Red | ||
| José_quiñones |
Jim, I believe your assumptions are incorrect. I'll quote Mr A. from earlier in this thread: In this type of racing it's not about selling the product on Monday. It's about getting brand name awareness. Drag racing sells lots and lots of product. The people who put their names on these cars and bikes are not stupid. I believe if you research the attendance figures for the events or TV ratings between ESPN and Speed, there's no comparison, more fans attend NHRA than AMA events and NHRA on ESPN gets you more brand exposure than AMA on Speed. HD is not spending THAT MUCH on their factory bikes to get less exposure than they were getting with their VR1000. They are also not promoting a VIP hospitality ticket packages at dealers to send HD race fans to an NHRA event just for grins and giggles. By the way, those HD factory bikes have yet to win a race this year, while the 'Privateer' 'Buells' have won the last two races, including this past weekend at New Jersey  Go BUELL!! | ||
| José_quiñones |
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| Imonabuss |
WOW! I am stunned by how many Buells are in the top ten. That is just plain awesome! Now I am much more a roadrace fan than a drag race fan, but you really have to give credit to those privateer teams. Angelle and Antron have a HUGE Army sponsorship, Hines has millions from H-D, and I don't know about Karen. I do know that Schnitz is sponsored by a drywall company, which I don't think can match budgets with the Army and H-D! | ||
| Diablobrian |
Tom Bradford rides for Hal's | ||
| Imonabuss |
Hal's H-D, eh? By the reasoning earlier in this string, I guess that makes him a "factory" rider! Well what the heck is he doing down in 9th? For shame! We expect better! LOL | ||
| Diablobrian |
Hey Trojan, where is the oil tank on the XB with the belt primary? Also does the shifting feel sloppier with the long linkage? | ||
| Trojan |
Hey Trojan, where is the oil tank on the XB with the belt primary? Also does the shifting feel sloppier with the long linkage? The oil tank on the particular bike pictured (that bike isn't ours, but is a btter picture of the primary)is under the seat and is made from aluminium.  This particular bike belongs to a customer of our Italian partners Free Spirits and features lots of trick one off parts The gear change is much better and more positive than stock using this primary kit, even with the longer linkage. | ||
| José_quiñones |
Ok back to hijacking the road racing thread with some drag racing. Here's the OFFICIAL HD Press Release from the Englishtown event. Kudos for actually calling them Buells.
Here's another one:
Yet Buell makes no mention of these events on their racing section of the website, only about the ASRA event in Kansas that unfortunately nobody saw or attended. (Go Bryan B!) the irony...... (Message edited by José_quiñones on June 22, 2006) | ||
| José_quiñones |
If Terry from Hals is reading this and he can answer the question: How does budget for a full on NHRA Pro Stock bike compare to your AMA FX bike per event, per season? | ||
| Diablobrian |
I'd bet the drag bikes are more expensive to build, but cheaper to run, in materials anyway. I wonder how the man-hours for each compares. | ||
| Jimidan |
Jose', as a machine, that is a beautiful red drag bike, but I don't see "Buell" on it anywhere. Not even the little 3" sticker. I never bought into Anony's statement, "In this type of racing it's not about selling the product on Monday. It's about getting brand name awareness." That doesn't make a lick of sense to me. Of course, it is about selling the product...and I bet Erik would agree. I still say that brand name awareness in an uninterested demographic is practically worthless when it comes to moving Buells off of the showroom floor. You are probably correct that more folks see the NHRA drag events than watch AMA racing, but the key is that only a few folks are watching the NHRA event to see the bikes run, and those aren't interested in buying a sportbike anyway (they don't even own a bike of any kind)...wrong demographic. They are watching the cars, for the most part. All of the AMA fans are very interested in sportbikes, and most all already own a sportbike. That is your true market base for selling Buells (real ones, not that drag bike). We will just have to agree to disagree on this one...and I have to admit that I am biased towards road racing anyway. ALL road races start out with a drag race to the first corner, and as in the MotoGP's race before last, it can get awfully messy then. The drag bikes just shut them down and coast to a stop...yawn. jimidan | ||
| Soloyosh |
Hello, my name is Brett and I watched drag racing last night. I was watching because of this thread, to see for myself the Buells, Suzukis, and H-D's battle and nothing else was on. It was the St. Louis round and a Buell won. I have to say "Buell" was mentioned a number of times and it did make me feel good to see the H-D PR machine not make the finals. From a time invested in front of the TV standpoint, it wasn't as satisfying as MotoGP, WSBK or the AMA races, after all you have to watch a bunch of cages run in between. All in all though, I'd watch again. Any chance we could set Muzzy's up with a XBRR? Cheers Brett | ||
| Jimidan |
Isn't Muzzy a company that sells aftermarket exhaust systems and performance products for Jap bikes exclusively? I don't think they are going to be an XBRR sponsor just yet...but I like the way you are thinking. Seems like some other American company would step up to the plate and offer to help...like HD maybe? Check them out: http://www.muzzys.com/ jimidan (Message edited by jimidan on June 27, 2006) | ||
| Diablobrian |
Muzzy is fielding either an H-D or Buell drag bike currently. They used to have close ties with Yamaha, then Kawasaki. They no longer field an AMA roadrace team. | ||
| José_quiñones |
Jim, we'll agree to disagree on this one. Muzzy 'BUELL', powered by S&S, like all the drag racing 'BUELLs' are HD's latest press release, notice no bike brands mentioned, only the riders this time.
(Message edited by José_quiñones on June 27, 2006) | ||
| José_quiñones |
Back to Road Racing, the new Moto-ST Endurance Racing series website is up and running, check it out HERE | ||
| Soloyosh |
Muzzy built the motor for DC10's Superbike at Fontana. I imagine they still have some Road Racing expertise, they did win the WSBK championship in 1993(up until last year the only Inline 4 to do so) and three AMA championships with DC10. A Muzzy's XBRR would be cool, yes it would. Cheers Brett | ||
| Diablobrian |
I'm sure they have the skills to build winning road racers, they just don't have the will to do it right now. The Muzzy Raptors were some serious animals on the street BTW | ||
| Jimidan |
Micron sponsored the last "Thunderbike National Champions Buell XB", which I assume is the CCS/ASRA bike of one Dave Estock, according to its ad in Motorcyclist Magazine. They also sponsored the CDN National Supersport and Superbike Champions. jimidan | ||
| Jscott |
José, did you notice that the VRod was included in the SuperSport Twins class: SuperSport Twins - SST SST motorcycles must produce at least 90 horsepower and no more than 115 horsepower as measured on the official Dynojet Dyno in post race testing. Unless otherwise stated, minimum post race weight will be 400 pounds without the addition of fluids or ballast of any kind. Each motorcycle on the eligible list will have a separate Technical Information Form (TIF) that will outline any allowable modifications from "as produced". The following motorcycles are eligible for competition in SST: Aprilia 1000 Mille BMW R1200S, RT, ST Buell XB-RR Ducati 749R, Monster S4R, ST4S Harley-Davidson V-Rod Honda VTR1000F Super Hawk Suzuki SV1000S Very Interesting, I thought I read a a while back that some dealer was going to try road racing a Street Rod. | ||
| Jimidan |
I wonder how you would detune an XBRR to get no more than 115HP? Also, road racing a V-rod would be a joke! Somebody has a sense of humor at least. jimidan | ||
| Jscott |
I wonder if Moto-ST knows something about Harley's 2007 VRod model lineup that we don't.  Kinda like the AMA new all about the XBRR prior to the public (before they all resigned).  (Message edited by JScott on June 28, 2006) |
