| Author | Message | ||
     Fastback69 |
Has anyone ever had a tranny given the "backcutting" service from Zippers, etc.? What does this process consist of, and is it worth the $200-something price? | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Fastback69, I used to backcut the 2nd - 4th gears on old dirt bikes. The first Honda CR125's and 250's likes to eat 2nd and 3rd gear after you did a bit of motor work. It consisted of modifying the gear dogs on the respective gear by reshaping them from right angles to a slightly "dove tail" configuration. The mating "slot" of the adjcent gear was modified to match. The tip of the gear dog was left wider than the base. Look at a dovetail joint on an old wooden drawer and you get the picture. The idea was to do the backcut so when shifting under power,the back cut would pull the gear dog into the slot in the adjcent gear. Less wear and tear on the shifter forks as the gear pulled in by itself and was not forced in under power by the shift fork. That was the theory anyway, not too sure how effective it was. We still went through a lot of gear sets and forks. Probably the same thing here, anyone know for sure? BluzM2 | ||
| Cyclonem2drew |
Hey all, Just had the "recall upgrade" made to my "'01 upgrade kit" shifter, which makes the arm longer and changes the angles a bit to give you more leverage. It's just about perfect now...no problems finding neutral, no missed shifts, no slop, and easy effort. My local dealer did the work for free under service bulletin B-039. | ||
| Leeaw |
Great news! While my bike is in for a 10K service, my recall shock comes in. Bad news, the squeaking belt I was hearing is due to a loose shaft bearing, and they have to tear it out and see what's gone bad. I hopefully will get the call soon as to what it will cost me this time! Service manager feels it was either due to a tight belt (which had been adjusted a few times by different mechanics or maybe, I emphasize maybe, the Mobil1 in the tranny. I trust him as he is a great guy and was racing before I was old enough for diapers, and I pass along the Mobil1 warning. All this crap following my front pulley coming loose and needing to be replaced about 3 weeks ago. Less than 1,000 miles prior, my front rotor was toast. I was about to jump ship when the front pulley was ruined but now I don't know. My passion stems as deep as all others here guys and girls, but when does not madness stop. Although I am thankful as it is better than having an accident, but I can't afford these sundries and have no backup bike. Have a nice day... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Leeaw... ouch. Sorry to hear that. Was the Mobil in the tranny the Mobil 1 transmission fluid, or just mobil 1 automotive synthetic? Hard to imagine the Harley sport trans is significantly better the the premium Mobil 1 trans fluid... though I doubt it's much worse... I thought it was full synthetic (it certianly smells bad enough to be). Again... major bummer... hopefully it won't cost TOOOO much.  Aren't there some tricks to replacing / polishing parts of the shifter mechanisim that will improve shifting while they are in there anyway? Bill | ||
| Leeaw |
Bill, I was told the Mobil1 was unfavorable, even before they touched the bike, but he said it was not really meant for a wet clutch. It was the synthetic 75/90 tranny fluid I was using. I will ask about any shifting updates while the thing is apart. Not that it matters, but I would feel alot better if it were something like that, and not just a Harley headache. After this, I am using HD stuff. It's true that they have 40 years of testing under their belt. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Interesting... I wonder about the Redline Shockproof. People keep talking about how much better the bike shifts after changing to either the Mobil 1 or the Redline... so SOMETHING in there is changing (or perhaps it's the placebo effect). The comment about the wet clutch sounds at least rational... that is an unusual configuration that Mobil may not have designed around but Harley would have taken into account. Hope they can make some token upgrade while they have it apart... it makes the pill a LITTLE easier to swallow... | ||
| Leeaw |
Bill, What sort of upgrades are you talking about? I know the shifter detent plate, but is there something else? If it is open and apart already, I might as well do all I can. Like I always promised myself if the top end went that I would send it to Nallin, what should I be looking to do in the tranny? I was all set to suprise my wife with money for another tattoo for her birthday, and now this. Last year, I was all set to buy an S3 fairing, until I had to buy a new rotor and rear tire all within two days. | ||
| Rocketman |
You know, these bearings are NOT uncommon failures, nor the splines on the shaft or the pulley. I was lucky to get the pulley under warranty some time back. At the end of the day you have to remember that the Buell is pushing out shed loads more power than the average Sportster did, and yes I know the technology is improved (that's why it works for the most of us) but you could also help yourself by installing a superior quality bearing rather than the Harley one, and if you're capable and able, it doesn't take much to strip out the tranny and do this kind of work yourself. Don't think I'm standing up for Buell here because I too beleive that the quality in a lot of areas needs improving, or rather, it should be ALL quality from the "get go", but if the passion runs so deep, you have to make sacrifies sometimes. Trust me, I've been their too and no doubt I'll be their again, but for now, I just couldn't be a happier camper where my arse kicking Buell is concerned. Rocket in England | ||
| Leeaw |
Agree 100% Rocket. I have sat down, thought about the other choices, and nothing comes close. Just wish I had the skills to do the work, or an S2 as a stand-in. I am just hoping that I won't be held up too long. I would like to know if this could be my fault in anyway. I am willing to learn from this. Lee in NY | ||
| Reepicheep |
Boy... now you got me. I can't remember if I saw it here or over on Amer Thunderbike... It was a guy somewhere that had a series of steps to polish a few parts that they said made a huge difference... and that they said he would be happy to share. He named it after the guy doing it, that worked at a Buell dealer... Let me hunt around a little bit and see if I can scare it up. Bill | ||
| Blake |
"I was told the Mobil-1 was unfavorable..." I don't believe it. Mainly because of all the other BS I've heard and personally been "told" by HD mechanics and sevice managers. If the clutch was the only issue for Mobil-1 use (due to different anti-wear additives?) then the resulting problem would be slippage and burned clutch plates, NOT a loose bearing! That said, I use the HD semi-synthetic Sport-Trans fluid since Buell does not publish any viscosity or grade requirements for the tranny lube. DO NOT let them place blame for your shaft bearing failure on the Mobil-1! The simple way to refute this claim, should it arrise, would be to email the tech support guys at Mobil. They are VERY responsive. Sounds to me that your loose pulley problem might be the most likely culprit/instigator of the failed/loose bearing. Let us know the outcome. Blake | ||
| Reepicheep |
Could not find it... it may have rolled off the end of AM Thunderbike forum... Anyway, the improved plate was the biggie... Anybody else remember anything about what I am talking about... He was a guy at a dealer that claimed to have worked out what parts to polish and how to improve shifting.... though maybe the new detent plate does the same thing, but without the voodoo... | ||
| Buellzebub |
reepicheep: i beleave it was done at modesto, called the modesto tranny mod [ever hear of that place?] | ||
| Reepicheep |
Modesto.. hmmm... yeah, I remember some stories... something about having parts in stock, doing emergency maintaince on the spot even after hours sometimes, loaning tools, loaner bikes, doing custom tweaks to prevent known problems during normal maintenance... all sorts of stuff. Then somebody said they were also a Buell dealer, so I knew it was obviously a fairy tale. ;) That may be it... might be worth a call anyway. If anyone knows, they probably would. Bill | ||
| Bored |
I discovered a primary gasket leak just 8 short hours after replacing my rockerbox gaskets (if it's not one thing...) Got questions: - Anything special I should do while I have the cover off? - What's the best way to get a gasket to stay in place while trying to fit the cover back on? | ||
| Aaron |
Update the chain tensioner ... $15 for piece of mind. | ||
| Road_Thing |
Gaskacinch | ||
| Hoser |
Bored: Remove the engine sprocket nut , clean the old loctite off the threads and retorque the nut to 200 ft/lbs. This is cheap insurance intended to prevent crankshaft damage when the engine sprocket nut mysteriously backs off. I have seen this happen to several sportsters and buells , and it will trash the crank. I do this on my own bike at least once a year and recommend it to anyone who is opening up their primary ( this advice is based on how many crankshafts I have replaced ! ) I hold gaskets in place with dowel screws made out of 1/4"-20 x 3" bolts with the hex cut off and the shank ground to a taper , slot them with a hacksaw for easy install and remove with a small screwdriver , three or four is plenty. this works on gear covers too. I personaly don't use "goo" on gaskets , make sure parts are clean and use a torque wrench. H.D. does not use gasket goo with gaskets , parts that are clean and flat don't require any gasket guk. Do what Aaron said too !! (it's cheap) Jeff | ||
| Roadking |
Bored: Since your bike is a '99 or earlier, recommend you update to the new shift pawl and second gear ratio. See Battle2Win Vol 3, issue 3. The new higher second is fabulous for any tight turn work on the street and is fabulous on the track. Cost is only about $150, easy to do. Ditto on replacing the chain tensioner, the new one is stronger too. Roadking | ||
| Leeaw |
Hoser, My front pulley nut and pulley had to be replaced when they were destroyed about a month ago. Supposedly at the time, there was no problem with the splines on the shaft or the bearing. It is now sitting at the dealer with a bad shaft bearing and god knows what else inside, and they are pulling it out to see. I am trying to find out what caused all this. It has been shifting fine, so hopefully it is just the bearing. But why is this happening? Can a tight belt cause all these problems? I need answers because I cannot afford for this to happen again and won't own the bike if something major happens again. If I wheelied took it to the track and beat the snot out of it, I would take it with a grain of salt, but I don't. | ||
| Knickers |
?? I got ~3000 miles on my 00 S3. Starting to get false neutrals between 2nd and 3rd on high speed shifts. Is the 01 shifter kit the answer or is something going awry? | ||
| Leeaw |
My tranny problems... Got an estimate. I caught it early so only the coutershaft bearing and an inside shaft bearing were ruined. Some other small parts, etc and the cost is about $550. Gears and shift forks are fine. I don't want to start an uproar but I was advised to avoid the automatic chain tensioners. I was told they are made for only forward direction, and when you downshift, the bias is shifted rearward, and it can flop, from wht I understand what he said. I will be Buell'ing again next week and smiling again. I was almost ready to buy something else when the pulley went bad, but then after realizing there is nothing else I really want, I just think about something else, play with my kids, and wait until I get it back and then ride. | ||
| Blake |
Lee: Personally, I think the first few sentences of your last post are VERY telling, and would raise my suspicion of malpractice to a very high level... "My front pulley nut and pulley had to be replaced when they were destroyed about a month ago. Supposedly at the time, there was no problem with the splines on the shaft or the bearing." I would sure fight to have the dealership share in the current repair bill. My argunment would go something like... Blake>>> What is the service life of the tranny output shaft bearings supposed to be? Service Mgr>>> (answer should be "life of the motorcycle" or "greater than 100K miles" but you may get some lame answer like "I dunno" or "we've had to replace lots of them"). Blake>>> What would cause the bearings to fail only one month after they had been verified as being in good working condition? Service Mgr>>> (Expect some lame answer?) Blake>>> Are you aware that radial bearings (bearings designed to carry only/mostly radial loads, as opposed to thrust/axial loads, are very easily damaged when exposed to an axial load? Service Mgr>>> (Expect some type of affirmative answer on this.) Blake>>> Is it possible that your technician accidentally/mistakenly applied an axial load to the bearings during the recent pulley replacement? Service Mgr>>> (If honest the obvious answer is "Yes, it is possible", if not he'll claim otherwise.) Blake>>> Would you concur that by far the most probable reason for failure of TWO radial bearings within one month of having service performed on the shaft/pulley assy that they carry is that the bearings were overstressed/damaged during that service? What am I suggesting here? That in removing the old, or most likely installing the new pulley, the technician's/mechanic's hand at one point may have held a hammer or mallet or otherwise overstressed the ball bearings. Primary cahin auto-tensioners: Though I've heard many positive accounts of the chain tensioners ability to quiet noisy primary drives, I agree with your ?mechanics? assessment, that if freeplay becomes excessive, even an auto-tensioned chain under deceleration can repeatedly slap the primary cover leading to damage of the cover and contamination of transmission lubricant. Buell, how about a hydraulic autotensioner similar to the TC88B's counterbalancer chain drive? | ||
| Leeaw |
Blake, I will take your wisdom with me when I go to pick up the bike. I know for a fact, that since the pulley was replaced, I barely put 500 miles on the bike if that. How quickly can these bearing be destroyed? I was going on the assumption that there may not have been any visible damage during pulley replacement, and that there was some wear going on inside even before the pulley was replaced. I figured that some problem, be it too tight belt or whatnot, caused both failures, but maybe I am wrong. Is this something to contact BMC about? Altough I am no attorney, I have been accused of sounding just like on. Can we get Court to chime in here on this issue? I would prefer not to eat $500 because of someone else's mistake. $500 could buy a whole bunch of patches. | ||
| Blake |
Lee: Was your belt too tight? If so, did you or the dealership adjust it? Even a tight belt would not likely cause the quick type of failure you saw. Teh bearing is designed to carry that type of load (radial load). A damaged bearing however will fail in a big hurry. It starts by making noise. Plus, you said that BOTH bearings have failed... the left side bearing is virtually unaffected by the belt tension due to overtightening. That's what tips me off that somehow your bearings/shaft (pervs need not comment!  ) were subjected to significant axial loads. | ||
| Leeaw |
Blake, I heard a belt squeak and mentioned it, and that is when they found the problem. I don't think the belt was too tight, as I checked it often and it seemed to be ok. Granted I did not measure it with anything but a visual check. I completely understand what you are saying and am wondering why in that short a time frame, the bearings went, when they were checked a fews weeks prior. Is it plausable that there was something going on that caused this failure as well as the pulley? I wish I had a firm answer as to: a) how fast do the bearings fail. b) how fast the gears and shift forks would be damaged following a bearing failure. c) why there was no indication of bearing problems when the pulley was replaced d) what can cause these failures besides a too tight belt Obviously I am not a mechanic and cannot make any claims. I can only ask questions. I need an arsenal of information to take with me. You are correct that I would be an ass if I did not ask questions. Maybe I can get a few words in with the mechanic too. It's hard when you trust the service manager, but he does not know what the mechanic touched the bike with. | ||
| Blake |
Lee: Hey guy! I never said anything about you being an "ass."  From where did that come? Like I said above, a too tight belt might hurt the right side bearing, but it is very unlikely that it would have any negative effects on the left side bearing. It follows then that your bearing failures were NOT caused by an overtightened belt. Do yourself a favor; MEASURE your belt tension. Freeplay at the midpoint of the lower portion (make sure bike is in neutral too) should be between 1.75 and 2.00 inches with the suspension fully unloaded. Then make sure your rear preload is wihtin specs too. Your owner's manual will tell you how to check and set the rear shock preload to achieve optimum "sag." | ||
| Leeaw |
Blake, I was calling myself an ass not thinking you were. I wish you were here to explain your thoughts to them. My new 2001 shock has been put on, so I am going to have it set for my weight. From what I could tell in the past, the belt seemed within those specs. Maybe I should just chaulk this one up to lack of an answer.. It has been there since last Monday, but I have learned to not get annoyed and just live a healthy happy life. I have to, my wife wants a third child soon. Lee | ||
| Davidjohnsenior |
Well, i've heard a few stories on this chat forum and others concerning dodgy gear changes, but i would never have expected it to get so bad in such a short space of time. 500 miles after its 12,500 mile service, i started experiencing a bit of trouble changing upto 3rd and finding neutral when at a standstill. Then this afternoon, as i'm turning onto our road i knocked it down to 1st from 2nd and WALLOP! Crunch bang clatter clatter, brought the clutch in quick, turned her off and pushed her home (luckily it was only 200 yards to me front door). Parked outside and then petrol starts pissing out of the air filter (?!). Now then. Has anyone had a similar problem? I seem to remember a couple of stories about a certain part prone to coming lose within the gearbox. It would be nice to have some information as ammunition to back up my problem when i give me dealer a shout on Monday. The bike in question is a 1998 White Lightning, with a K&N filter and Vance & Hines pipe, 12944 miles on the clock and a full service history. Cheers mateys Dave |
