| Author |
Message |
    
Tpoppa
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 05:04 pm: | 
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THe write up says the American Sport Bike open airbox kit was used. |
99buellx1
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 05:07 pm: |
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quote:THe write up says the American Sport Bike open airbox kit was used.
It was, for all runs after the stock run.
(Message edited by 99buellx1 on June 07, 2006) |
Jandj_davis
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 05:32 pm: |
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For those of you who haven't done it yet, be sure to download the WinPEP7 program from the Dynojet website. It allows you to do specific curve comparisons. Want to see how the Drummer SS compares to the Jardine? Throw the two curves in and viola! Unless you look at specific pipe comparisons, it is hard to use the diagrams in the .pdf to make comparisons. It is a great tool, and since Al provided the dyno runs in the zip file, you might as well make use of it.
http://www.dynojet.com/downloads/zip/Winpep7.1.3.zip |
Cyclonecharlie
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 05:47 pm: |
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Thanks Craig,
I forgot they changed to the 12 box for the 9 in 05 or which ever year it was. Very impressive work, thanks a bunch....Charlie |
Pupu
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 07:53 pm: |
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so if i have D&D, and i have the race ecm, which from what was stated in the report, is not optimized at all for the D&D, is there a way to have one mapped for my pipe? i know certain ones can be remapped. could i send in my stock one and have it the program they used in the shootout put on it? |
99buellx1
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:00 pm: |
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I do believe that Al has a D&D map available, you should ping him in his sponsor section. He can hook you up with what you need. |
Jcbikes
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:05 pm: |
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Al,
Why was the Drummer exhausts started at 1,500 rpm and all the rest at 2,500? My stock exhaust on my 12 has good pulling power that starts from 1,800-2,000 rpm.
Just wondering if that is fair to all the others charts. Not complaining. You did a fantastic job and thank you and all very much! |
Jens
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 03:10 am: |
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Al,
how many miles the bike had run on the road between the different dyno runs?
Jens |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 03:01 am: |
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Jens,
None. And it didn't matter. The O2 sensor was disconnected, the AFV was set to 100, and the fueling was manually corrected to proper. We weren't utilizing the Buell adaptive correction capabilities at all.
Al |
Jens
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 05:03 am: |
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Al,
I absolute dont agree with you that this doesnt matter. But I feel that it is not wise to step into this discussion (-:
Jens |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 06:42 am: |
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Jens,
They were tuning the EFI mapping manually and only for wide open throttle (WOT) performance, which is in the open loop mode of ECM operation. The O2 sensor thus is out of the loop and of no consequence.  By setting the AFV to 100 and then disconnecting the O2 sensor, they avoided having the ECM self-adjusting the mapping contrary to optimum power tuning for WOT testing.
That was only for testing WOT performance. If they were actually performing a full Direct Link mapping, they would absolutely have the O2 sensor engaged and communicating with the ECM. Otherwise what you are suspecting would come into play, the ECM would self adjust the AFV and then affect all the mapping and all your hard work would yield poor results. Al and Terry know this very well. But as stated above, they were not performing a full mapping, just trying to optimize WOT performance.
Smart fellers, eh.
(Message edited by Blake on June 09, 2006) |
Alex
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 06:50 am: |
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Did the check engine light come on? |
Cochise
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 08:50 am: |
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I have a question also. I'll ask you in an email?
*edited for didn't like the way my response sounded.*
(Message edited by cochise on June 09, 2006) |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 09:42 am: |
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Alex,
Posibly, since the O2 sensor was disconnected from the ECM, the lack of signal would likely generate a check engine error code. But it matters not. Please don't confuse what Al and Terry and the gang did in testing WOT performance with anything related to a full blown DirectLink operational ECM remapping.
When they do a full map and send you the ECM and you install it in your bike and you leave your O2 sensor connected, the check engine light will not come on, barring any other unrelated engine problems of course. |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 10:06 am: |
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What Blake said. |
Alex
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 10:26 am: |
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Well then,
You say it doesn´t matter. What if the ECM switches to some kind of "emergency mode" when the O-two sensor is lost (like ignition retard to protect the engine)? Wouldn´t that matter? |
Hogs
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 10:29 am: |
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Hmmmm......... |
Glitch
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 10:49 am: |
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Look at the dyno charts, does that look to be an engine running in any kind of "emergency mode"? |
99buellx1
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 10:50 am: |
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I'm not so sure we understand what you are getting at Alex?
Are you meaning something in regards to the shootout results being skewed from the O2 sensor?
Or are you talking about for the street?
If you are talking about the shootout, this is my response.
No, because all the runs were done with the same setup. |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 12:38 pm: |
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Not having the 02 sensor connected will throw a code. But for some reason, not reliably. I have disconnected the 02 sensor on occasion and rode around trying to get a code, and couldn't. I've also disconnected an O2 sensor and gotten the light within minutes of doing it. I can not explain why. We were getting codes on the dash during the testing.
I won't tell you I know exactly what the ECM will do in all cases, we don't have access to the algorithms. But we've characterized it pretty well, I think, and I don't believe anything goofy happens when the O2 sensor is disconnected, other than a complete disabling of the closed loop and learn mode of operation.
Jens, if you understand what Blake said and have a different understanding, please post it. If there is something we don't understand that you can clarify, I'm all ears. In all cases, I only seek the truth. |
Hogs
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 01:29 pm: |
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Al_lighton,
Just wondering When you rode around with the o2 disconnected either with or not " light on " did it make the engine rough, any plms. at all either in cruise or WOT ? Thanks |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 08:56 pm: |
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Nope, runs fine. And I think it would continue to run fine, until the barometric pressure changed enough to make it NOT run so fine.
Carburetors have certain amount of built in compensation for air density, as it is the flow of the air that creates the "signal" that draws the fuel into the air. FI, OTOH, cares not what the density and air mass flow is, it squirts the same amount of fuel no matter what the air mass flow is. So without something to modify the injector duration when the air density changes, fueling at higher or lower altitudes can get quite a bit off. The Buell AFV system is what does this for Buells, other systems use MAP (manifold pressure) sensors to adjust for density changes. If the O2 sensor is disconnected, the bike can't run in closed loop, and the AFV learn mode is completely disabled, but the ECM will happily run off the preprogrammed map, just as it would be anyway if you weren't holding a steady throttle.
I don't think there is any "emergency" mode for an O2 sensor failure.
Al |
Teufelhunden282
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 09:22 pm: |
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Sorry, but I cant access the link on the American Sport Bike website, any other way of getting to the pdf? |
Jens
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 04:16 am: |
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Al,
like I said I dont want to argument against your results. You had done a great job and big work and it is not easy to dyno on other way comparable results for XB´s. But I dont see how to transfer these results 1:1 to road usability. Understand me right, I dont say that your results are useless, they show how different exhaust performing on a dyno at WOT if you change at AFV 100 the fuelsetup manual near to the best AF ratio and disconnect the O2 sensor.
Disconnecting the O2 sensor change the dynocurve (drop down). For me it looks like the ECM switch on a kind of emergency mode. This might have no influence of your results because you disconnect the O2 sensor at the complete testing session and the curves showing anyway only tendencys not absolute values.
In the end the rider like to have the performace on the road. So we prefer to ride complete setups with all components on the road in open and closed loop over a longer distance before we dyno the bike.
Jens |
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