| Author | Message | ||
     Jima4media |
There aren't any factory teams in AMA road racing. There are factory supported teams, like Honda America, Erion, Yoshimura, Graves Motorsports, Parts Unlimited, Jordan Suzuki, and others. The last factory team was Honda HRC, which got out a couple of years ago. The only true factory teams are in MotoGP. | ||
| Cluckcluckpush |
You are looking at a newcomer trying to break into the old boys network that the Japanese have developed over the years. Yeah HD has only been around for 102 or so years, those "old boy japs" have the advantage on motorcycle building, and racing them....right? | ||
| Curtyd |
I think BUELL still is distinctly separate from HD. Look different, engineered different, marketed different. Only common denominator has been the sportster powerplants and Buell has been around about 15 years or so. With no race teams or significant HD corporate sponsorship until 1999. Want to talk HD Racing, that's Flattrack. I don't see ONE japanese manufacturer there. They tried in the 1970's and gave up. Remember Roberts on a two-stroke flatracker, it was a BEAST, never did break the HD hold on the racing, so what's your point about the 102 years of HD production and how it relates to the XBRR development? | ||
| Percyco |
Wasnt NHRA pretty much all Jap bikes at first ? Now Andrew Hines and GT Tonglet are at the top of the heap. I wouldnt mind seeing a H-D backed factory effort into Buell road racing. Think of the boost it would be for road racing. | ||
| Outrider |
Don't forget Bubba Shobert and a few other greats on their Honda flat trackers. | ||
| Buellgirlie |
hmmmm. i smell a mole. or rat. or some other unsavory, though fairly well-educated, well-spoken, and race-savvy creature. Pioggia_di_parata has 9 posts to date. all of them about this topic. his buell model is a "DNF" and his screen name translated from Italian essentially means "Raining on the Parade" hmmmmmmmm. welcome mr. (clever) unsavory creature - i do enjoy reading your posts and hope that you will continue - though i hope this helps readers put some of your comments in perspective. D (Message edited by buellgirlie on June 05, 2006) | ||
| M1combat |
His style is a LOT like Jima4's... Anyway... I'm QUITE certain that all of the bikes that were bought will be delivered and I doubt any will be cancelled... Maybe a couple, but it's not likely. Time will tell. My guess is that it was explained that they'll get the bikes when the bikes are ready. They're in the process of making the bikes ready ATM. Stop being a prick and take off your blinders. The XBRR isn't an FX champion yet. We all know that. The difference between us is the I believe it can/will be, you don't. So what... Neither of us are right yet  . | ||
| M1combat |
They've run the bike out to XXXXX RPM and it didn't grenade... That motor has a LOT of development left in it. They've been developing the IL4's for a long time. I know... You're going to mention the whole 45 degree pushrod V2 being around for a long time thing... Yeah... You're right, but Buell hadn't gotten a hold of it with a goal... Now they have... Good luck to the Japs . You can say "nay" all you'd like but that bike is very fast. We both know it. It'll get it's bugs worked out as long as HD doen't tell Buell to quit working on it (and I doubt they will). The future of Buell is going to be very sweet. Sorry you can't see it. Can't really blame you though, most people dont. Works for me. | ||
| Jimidan |
parata sez: ""My comment about the bike being capable to beat all but the Yammy Hauls (there's 3, count 'em)..." Ok, I'll count 'em: 1) Jason DiSalvo 2) Eric Bostrom Looks like two to me. Or are you so confused about AMA racing that you think Jamie Hacking is racing his R6 in Formula Xtreme when he's actually racing it in Supersport? "...still stands." You are correct...I was confused. I guess is was that all 3 of them were running together in the CCS/ASRA races leading up to the AMA 65th running of the Daytona 200. Really though, who can you tell those little bikes apart? With race skins on they all look and sound just alike. No wonder they call them cookie-cutters! Troll on... jimidan | ||
| José_quiñones |
Suzuki has a factory Flat track team, since about two years ago. When the rules are designed or are modified to suit twins, they do well in whatever type of racing they are in. That's what happened in the NHRA, the twins were given rules that allowed that bike to be competitive over time compared to the others. The fans showed up and filled the stands. As they became too successful the rules were changed (ie added weight) to keep all the bikes close. I believe multicylinder bikes were outlawed in AMA Flat Track after Kenny and his Yamaha won a race or two in the 70's (?). It's been twins ever since, but this year the Flat Track championship has been divided into a singles class (ie converted Japanese off road bikes) and a twins class (XR750's, Factory Suzuki SV's, a Yamaha and an Aprilia too). This has caused more manufacturers to jump in the game, offer contingency money and fill the grids, and hopefully the fans will fill the stands. It's all about the fans in the stands. If fans want to see twins racing, the rules will change to include them and make them competitive. The Daytona Speedway wanted more fans in the stands for the 200, not on main street. That's one of the reasons that the 200 is a Formula Extreme race. | ||
| Pioggia_di_parata |
Buellgirlie sez: "Pioggia_di_parata [...] screen name translated from Italian essentially means 'Raining on the Parade'". Congratulations! I wondered how long it would take somebody to figure it out. You are obviously more clever than most here.  Yes, I've just been having a little fun playing with the zealots. But I think I have been reasonably fair, in that I have pretty much stuck to commenting on actual results and actual statements from Buell (and some fan statements as well), as opposed to the simplistic "Buell's suck and the XBRR will never amount to anything" bashing that you hear from unimaginative trolls. | ||
| M1combat |
Reasonably fair for sure, but it seems that you still refuse to accept that the XBRR is an infant playing with hardened veterans. Sure it has a very powerful parent walking behind it, but it still needs to grow up . Just accept that. We have (I have anyway)... It will  . | ||
| Curtyd |
The last time I looked it was still HD dominating flattrack, is that not true anymore? Hey "PISSER on MY PARADE" what does speaking Italian have to do with being clever? Like there are not smart and dumb folks alike that speak Italian. You just like to think YOU are CLEVER, LEGEND in YOUR OWN MIND and all that... | ||
| Outrider |
Curt...Yes, HD is still leading the pack in flat track, but that is compliments of the special track-only bike that has just the right amount of power to win. The newer bikes in the class are too hard to control with the additional power and require a slightly different riding style. Plus, the old Brit Bikes, that were Harley's nemesis for many years, are well...History. If you read back a few years, you will see where Willie G. got his undies in a bundle when the Zooks and other modern V-twins showed up with more juice at Del Mar. Incidentally, this was after Honda's trust into flat track with Bubba Shobert and his buds. His words were to the effect that he wanted the class to remain like NASCAR, which meant a level playing field for Harley. Heck, by then Harley was the leading player due to attrition and they didn't want to lose the notoriety. Thinking back on it, it was much like Honda protesting the XBRR before, during and after Daytona. Although, I am confident some here will disagree. Enjoy! | ||
| Pioggia_di_parata |
Curtyd sez: 'Hey "PISSER on MY PARADE" what does speaking Italian have to do with being clever?' Nothing. 'Like there are not smart and dumb folks alike that speak Italian.' I don't even speak Italian - I used Babelfish. I was just congratulating Buellgirlie on recognizing that my screen name was probably not a real name at all, and then working out the translation which would make it pretty obvious what was up. Although I do have to say it was kind of fun being referred to as "Rain" and "Mr. Parade". 'You just like to think YOU are CLEVER, LEGEND in YOUR OWN MIND and all that...' I suggest you try the decaf'. It might cut down on that shift-key-abuse issue you seem to be having. | ||
| Curtyd |
It was a backhanded compliment; see actual quote below "You are obviously more clever than most here." Your superego practically jumps from the page, must ride a DUCK....or a VESPA  (Message edited by CURTYD on June 05, 2006) | ||
| Buellgirlie |
please lets be civilized. btw - guys, i also own a duck, and 2 harleys (and 2 buells include 1 that i am racing). our guest has been offering some interesting facts though all from a particular point of view. i am a fan of healthy debate, not name calling and finger pointing. so back to the racing subject please. D | ||
| Imonabuss |
Buellgirlie, Oh, come on, this troll is offering interesting facts? Give me a break! How about this? "There's always an excuse for this bike, isn't there. Bring in a world class ringer and he barely manages to run in the top 10? Must be because he didn't know the track(s). Put the bike under a local with excellent track knowledge at Infineon and he runs closer the back than the front? Must be because he's a big guy and the bike wasn't set up for someone his size. And my all-time favorite - the official press release from Buell stating that the failures at Daytona were due to a poorly manufactured Japanese part. Not only a feeble excuse, but also pandering to the xenophobes. Fabulous twofer!" Or bashing the XBRR design when a freakin' oil filter falls off because a mechanic forgot to tighten it? There's nothing civilized about trolls, girl. | ||
| M1combat |
The XBRR hasn't been dominating FX... Far from it. The only issue I have with "pisses in the wind" is that he's unwilling to give credit where credit is due. Did the GT-40 or the Shelby Cobra dominate immediately? How about the Dodge Viper? The water cooled porches? The XR-750? The jap bikes on circle tracks? Some went on to, some didn't. I see the RR as one that will, "Pee's in cheerios and likes it" doesn't... No biggie. What I don't get though is that most of us here weren't having a parade... We're awaiting it with anticipation and hopes of good things, but the parade hasn't begun yet . They're lining up the floats as we speak though... The weather looks pretty good from where I'm sitting... | ||
| Anonymous |
"There aren't any factory teams in AMA road racing. There are factory supported teams, like Honda America, Erion, Yoshimura, Graves Motorsports, Parts Unlimited, Jordan Suzuki, and others. The last factory team was Honda HRC, which got out a couple of years ago. The only true factory teams are in MotoGP." Using this logic, there have been no Japanese factory teams ever in AMA racing, as the US race teams are invariably run through the distributor: American Honda, Yamaha Motor USA, etc. But if you look at the scale of operations of the Japanese AMA efforts (two to three semis of equipment at each track, multiple bikes far beyond an A and a B, 4-lap qualifying engines at Daytona, flocks of home country engineers), it's apparent that these are equivalent of full factory efforts, whatever you want to call them. | ||
| Curtyd |
MY GOD, it's HONDA Racing, et al, millions of dollars and years upon years of racing development and experience, why are they so worried about a little blip on the moto scene from Wisconsin in some little AMA FX Class? It's really funny, if the BUELL'ies were to start winning any races then we'll hear all them making excuses about how the bike is illegal. IT"S HONDA RACING CORPORATION, we're just a Don Quixote tilting at windmills right now, but it sure has drawn out all the "rats" from their internet holes to BADWEB. Let's see what happens. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
I don't care what anyone says. I enjoyed seeing the bike run at Road America. Crevier was passing guys after a bad start, then was Black Flagged, then went down in turn one. What is the excuse for the other bikes that didn't finish well? I saw plenty of Honda's, Kawi's, Yamaha's and Suzuki's finish worse than the RR. Why did they do so poorly? People that expect the bike to do great things this year are in for a sad session. People that can do nothing but point out the problems are just plan sad. Like M-1 points out, did others come into racing and kick ass right off the bat? No. This bike, when developed will be a bike that will win races. Of this I am sure. Maybe not this year, but it will happen. HMMMM, an Italian screen name. I know some one that just returned from Italy. I wonder if it's D***a. | ||
| Curtyd |
P.S. VERY FUNNY stuff M1... "Pee's in cheerios and likes it" "pisses in the wind"  | ||
| M1combat |
No offense... I don't read french. I'm trying to figure it out . | ||
| Jugulator |
I've been keeping my mouth shut for a long time... I know what is wrong with the XBRR......... The racing gods are really pissed off about that big stupid double wide front fairing!!!!!!!! They will not be allowed to run with the big dogs until a normal fairing is installed. There--it's out there. You all have been thinking it but have been trying to be loyal. Well, It's time for everyone to speak there mind and let them know. No big stupid double wide fairing allowed!!!!!!!! | ||
| Brucelee |
PP is simply a egotistical jerk. Can we move on to more interesting topics? Frankly, I expect the RR to do fine as it is developed and as the teams around it develop. That is the way this game works! PS-imagine how Penske Porsche felt when they finished behind the Corvette at Sebring this year? Hey, they have the prototype 2 and they could not beat a GT1???? CHEVY???? Oh, boo hoo! Should they pack up and go home too PP? I doubt it. | ||
| Chadhargis |
I've always wondered why HD/Buell haven't entered a factory team in FX. Seems like with HD's bottomless pile of cash, they could do great things even if they were using a lawnmower engine in a cardboard chassis. The factory teams are the only ones who win. Heck, even Michael Jordan's mucho money can't buy a win. | ||
| Pioggia_di_parata |
Brucelee sez: 'PP is simply a egotistical jerk.' Guilty as charged (well, at least about the jerk part -- I haven't said I could do better, so I'm not sure about the egotistical part). But I do want to clear one thing up: 'Should they pack up and go home too PP? ' I never said anything even remotely like that Buell should give it up. Others have, but not me. I've only said that the XBRR has so far completely failed to live up to Erik's predictions and that there has been a long list of excuses offered for that. If you're going to flame me at least flame me for what I've actually said, not for what other people have said. | ||
| M1combat |
Excuses? Predictions? Where? There have been perfectly valid reasons for everything that has happened to the RR all year... Where are the "excuses"? The only "predictions" I recall are that they would start delivering the bikes in ?may?... They did that. Where are these failed "predictions"? Go •••• up a rope dude... You aren't making ANY ground here at all. You have a negative point of view, you know it, you're saying "nay" for no good reason... I think you're shakin' in your boots remembering the sound of thunder and wishing it could just stay buzzin' hornets... To each their own I suppose. | ||
| Pioggia_di_parata |
M1combat sez: 'The only "predictions" I recall are that they would start delivering the bikes in ?may?... They did that. Where are these failed "predictions"?' Go read my post in the "way forward" thread for a pretty clear example of a prediction from Erik which wasn't met. And for predictions from true believers all you need to do is go check the archives of this very site in the week running up to Daytona. 'There have been perfectly valid reasons for everything that has happened to the RR all year... Where are the "excuses"?' One man's reason is another man's excuse I guess. But you said it best yourself: "I'm a firm believer in the fact that there are no excuses in racing. You win or you lose." If you truly believe that, then you understand that the XBRR's results so far in AMA FX can only be considered losing. 'I think you're shakin' in your boots remembering the sound of thunder and wishing it could just stay buzzin' hornets...' That's pretty funny considering that I have a huge preference for thundering twins over buzzin' I4's. |
