| Author | Message | ||
     Josh_ |
>The Buells can't finish a race without breaking! Ah, the stress free life of a Troll. XBRRs have finished (including today's AMA FX where they finished ahead of the Kawasaki's) and won races already. | ||
| Badbuell82 |
Ahh! The stressful life of the name calling, ignorant, who cannot bear to let someone with a dissenting view have a voice! | ||
| Curtyd |
You know what is the most laughable about the "Ricer-Trolls"?? The idea that all these japanese roadracers "sprung from the rib" of Mr. Honda perfect and weren't developed over decades of testing and racing is the pinnacle of ridiculous logic. Try 30 years or more of constant development, not 3 months. Ask Fast Freddie, King Kenny, Eddie, Wayne and the whole crowd... Those TZ's, 550 lb.1000R's, Katana GS's, Interceptor's , GXSR's and all their brethern were mostly PIGS with death wobbles at high speeds and broken parts as well. Don't forget the Water Buffalo's, the Wankel-powered's, the H1/H2/H3's and the RD/RZ's with their multitude of idiosyncracies and liabilities. But they developed over 3 decades and now they have a damn powerful/reliable platform out of the box. It's excusable that a youngster might not know anything but repliracers and think they just appeared one day out of the Valhalla of japanese manufacturing, but someone who is supposed to have drag-raced rice rockets since the 1970's? Give me a break. You want to know what all the BUELL bashing is about? HD riders bashed ricers for years, it made these guys feel less than, now they want to bash back. They have so identified their egos with the Brand of their ride they just can't help it. Street goes both ways there too. BUELLIE"S do it too. I supported japanese development for 20 years with my checkbook. Didn't have much choice. Since the mothership got a hold of BUELL in 1999, I see great strides there. Maybe I'll just keep voting with my $$'s a few more years to see what happens. I'm still waiting for my sub-300lb street legal flat-tracker from anyone. You know what else is funny, for all the bashing of the ancient V-twin technology, EVERY SINGLE japanese manufacturer has had to develop a V-Twin model in their product line. I guess it does take all kinds to make a Motorcycling World, Read the history of moto racing in the USA, if you weren't there. The japanese did also nearly tank the worldwide motorcycle industry with their Honda 750K, I don't like monopolies in any industry. All the japanese industries are interlaced businesswise with their business practices and ownership. Shared and interlaced Boards of Directors and all that. I like competition more. GO BUELL, Triumph, Ducati, Indian, KTM, whoever. Racing right now it just the same old "ho-hum it's another winner from the big 4". RANT OFF. (Message edited by CURTYD on June 04, 2006) | ||
| M2nc |
Badbuell82 - Do you actually believe that a bike with 121rwhp will do 175mph on the back stretch at Daytona? Please, if you just don't know any better stop, you are making me laugh. A stock GSX750R or GSX600R cannot get up to those kinds of speed without some serious work. The XBRR was doing it plus. In reality neither the Hondas nor the Buells are telling the truth about their horsepower. Do you really believe that a CBR600RR is laps faster than a GSX-R600. I would say if both bike were stock, the Suzuki would have no problem winning the race, but that is not what happen. You and friends need to look at objective data. Just because you say "Mine's Faster" does not making so. For the top factory teams to have managed the speeds they were hitting at Daytona they would have in excess of 150rwhp. Spatten1 - Look at last years repli-racer shoot out from Cycle World. The ZX10R was the fastest liter bike, straightaway and curve speed, but in that shootout they did both liter bikes and 600s. The top four Japanese 600s all were faster than the ZX10R in the curves. I would say that if they tested GP250, that they would be even faster through the tightest curves. I've seen it out on the track during happy hour where all the classes are out on the track. Little GP250 loosing time on the straights and gain it back plus on the curves. The Buells are closer related to GP250 than a liter bike. Objectively I can say that Buell XB9R or XB12R would have no problem on a tight road against a liter bike. Now a 600 would be a better test of a repli-racer versus a Firebolt and that is why I love the GSX-R750. It has the 600 handling ability but with more horsepower. (Message edited by M2nc on June 04, 2006) | ||
| Curtyd |
Yeah, I miss the Yamaha TZ250 out there on the track in the Extreme class passing every bike in every corner and then getting caught in the drag race of the straights. I love small bikes. I think that may have been the death knell of the HD VR1000, it was a big bike. That is one thing I have noticed also about the XBRR, with that fairing it also looks kind of BIG. Maybe they'll need to rethink that, but I am no engineer. | ||
| M2nc |
If I may, we need to get back on topic. On the street what would be better a 600 or Firebolt. The 600 has the top end speed while the Buells have the low end torque. I think both handle better than most riders' capability so if I were in the market I would have to test both bikes to see what would suit me better(even though Japanese dealers will not let you test ride them so I would have to ask one of my friends with one). Since I already have two Buells I really would tend to the GSX-R750 for something different. If I would only have one bike, then the Firebolt makes a great package. The XB9R is now less expensive than most of the repli-racers and is better on the street because it has power where you need it. The 600s make excellent power but up high and you have to twist it to make it go. Also the Firebolt is more forgiving even if you drop it. Less body work to mess up and the frame is rock solid. (Message edited by M2nc on June 04, 2006) | ||
| Lions |
Hey...don't any of you creeps care about my finger?  | ||
| Curtyd |
Here is why I switched from Japanese racers to Buell, two so far, 1999 M2 and 2003 XB9S , you decide. 1. Loved the motor from 1999 M2 test ride and bought one. It pulls hard in the RPMs around town where I drive in most of the time. 2500 to 6500. Try screaming around town in your Inline 4 600 at 8-10000 rpm just to access that 47 lbs of torque or so. Might as well just hand your DL into the Highway Patrol, you'll give it up soon enough, when they hear you coming everywhere. 2. Love the belt drive, YEAH!!!, no more chain lube stains on my bags and riding gear. 3. Love the small bikes. 4. Love the quantum leap in fit and finish from the tubers to the XB series. Guess that HD money was well spent after all. 5. Hate to say it, but American made is OK for me too right now. All great empires do irreparably decline when they stop producing things and start living on their investments and savings. Actually is no shortage of USA Manufactured goods in the world arms race, so we may still be on top as long as the world keeps trying to kill each other off over some ridiculous ideology or another. 6. Liked that Erik attempted to go head to head with the TZ 750 in the 1980's, too bad AMA shortchanged him with the rules changes under the Big 4 influence. 7. I guess that HD patch on my fathers's 1938 Motorcycle Club shirt has grown on me over the years, although I can't quite bring myself to buy a "real" HD. 8. Stops the dribble from the HD faithful over what bike I ride that I had to listen to for over 20 years. They look at me now on the BUELL and think "at least he's trying." 9. Did I say , I like the motor, put a grin on me from ear to ear at the test drive, biggest surprise of my life after riding japanese for 20 years. 10. Love the sounds of the twins at the racetrack, be it Ducati, HD, Aprilia or two-stroke TZ's. 11. It's different, REALLY. Never had a cute girl flag me over on a ricer asking for a ride. I guess the "thumpers" do get the girls going sometimes. QUALIFICATION; this is before I met my wife. 12. On the Lightnings, the wife is on the same seat level as me, not perched up behind me a foot above and leaning over my back to hold on. Much better riding position for a passenger than a repliracer. 13. The Lightnings just look DAMN GOOD, from any perspective. (Message edited by CURTYD on June 04, 2006) | ||
| Curtyd |
Here are the hard numbers; "Real Data, No Drivel" from Motorcyclist magazine. Remember HP is just a mathematical function of torque. Foot pounds of torque is what you feel, the "pull" of the motor. These numbers are the maximum foot-pounds of torque measured on the Dyno by Motorcyclist. 2005 Honda CBR600RR; 44.6 @11,000 RPM. 2005 Kawasaki ZX6R; 48.1 @11,000 RPM. 2005 Suzuki GSX-R600; 46.6 @11,000 RPM. 2005 Yamaha YZF-R6; 44.6 @12,000 RPM 2005 Buell XB9SX; 56.7 @6000 RPM. 2003 Buell XB12S; 71.9 @5750 RPM Now ask yourself, on the street do you really want to drive around at 11,000 RPM just to have access to anywhere between 9 less (XB9) to 24 less (XB 12) foot-pounds of torque that are available to you at half the RPMs of the repliracer? The XB's torques curves are also fairly flat meaning you get access to that power at a lower RPM until you hit the relatively short redline of 7K Rpm or so. This is the real world, rev it out for less torque or stay in the meat of the torque curve all day long, it's your choice. Revving is fun but it also attracts a lot of unwarranted attention at times on the street. (Read that to mean COPS, OK?) I'm no engineer, however my "seat of the pants-dyno" is reflected in these numbers, which is why I believe I enjoy the Buell motor so much on the street. (Message edited by CURTYD on June 04, 2006) | ||
| New12r |
Why did bike mag name the XB12R as the best handling bike EVER? | ||
| Badbuell82 |
"Why did bike mag name the XB12R as the best handling bike EVER?" Obviously, because of the amount of advertising Harley & Buell spend with them! "and the RD/RZ's with their multitude of idiosyncracies and liabilities." Well, as far as "idiosyncracies and liabilities", MY RZ, though highly tweaked, is still one of the most fun bikes I've ever riden and I'd pit it against any stock Buell on the track.  | ||
| Badbuell82 |
"2005 Buell XB9SX; 56.7 @6000 RPM. 2003 Buell XB12S; 71.9 @5750 RPM" You want a REAL treat? Ride, or try riding my other V-Twin!  | ||
| Curtyd |
All streetbikes, two RD400's, 1 RD 125, the faster yellow RZ350, a Yamaha 80 and, just for laughs my first learner's bike, a 1972 Jawa 350 (all the Jawa's were two cycle motors) bought in Amsterdam and ridden only 'halfway' to S. France... all in my rider's resume. I Even toured the Smoky Mts. in the RZ and Fla. on the RD's. But still couldn't get dead bang reliability and would end up with brief piston seizures on the road with my 1978 RD400. It's being completely rebuilt as I write as a barter for handling a mechanic friend of mine's legal problems. I still have more confidence going on a tour with the aircooled BUELL over the aircooled RD, but I'll probably be riding it some day with my daughter on the more dependable BUELL. We still have a few years to go she is just 2 1/2 years old right now. As I said to the "friend" of the purported pink slip racer I spent about 10 years on 2 stroke streetbikes. I probably just LOVE all the bikes, really. BUELL is my brand at the moment, but hopefully the RD will be back on the road very SOON. It's in pretty good shape for a 1978, before it sat a little too long. HEY, I just noticed, 78 foot-lbs of torque, that's only 6 more than the STOCK XB12, how much did that 6 cost you?  (Message edited by CURTYD on June 04, 2006) | ||
| Spatten1 |
"Remember HP is just a mathematical function of torque. Foot pounds of torque is what you feel, the "pull" of the motor." I think there is a clearer way to look at torque vs. HP: Torque is a measure of force only. Horsepower is a measure of work, as in actually moving the bike forward or accelerating. You can do more work at double the rpm with the same torque. This is why racers try ever so hard to raise RPM potential. Riding a high rev bike at 6-9k is like riding the Buell at 3-4k. It is not harder on the engine because the short stroke has lower piston speed. You just have to adjust to using a differnt RPM band. It is a mental thing. With the 1000s you don't even have to rev them more than the Buell, they make more torque just about anywhere. Hey, I think my engine is really neat and has a great "feel". However, it sucks at the track and certainly is no powerhouse. I even chose the 9 over the 12 because it revs quicker. I figured both were pretty low powered, so I picked the one with the sportiest feel. Sometimes I wish I had the 12. Both would be nice... | ||
| Spatten1 |
Curt, I had an RD400 too, with old DG flat black pipes. Peaky as could be. That was a cool old bike. | ||
| Hattori_hanzo |
Hey Lions...sorry 'bout the finger dude!  By the way...just to stir the pot some more, add the new Daytona 675 to the mix! There's the happy medium between the higher strung 600's and the V-twin in the 'Bolt. Bold looks, exclusive numbers, sweet sounding triple, and an under $9k MSRP are a recipe for success. But I digress.... Carry on. P.S. Personally, I believe that there are too many good bikes for so many individual's tastes, that you'd have to be mighty ignorant to not realize this. Bashing another brand is just plain dumb. | ||
| Teddagreek |
I test drove a few different 600's before finally getting my XB9SX... Just more practical of bike and funner IMO... I'd go across the pond, Triumph,Bmw,Ducs etc. before going the rice route again.. There opening a new Triumph Dealer near me and they are going to be doing demo's I'm real interested in riding the New Daytona 675 Maximum Power 125PS (123bhp) at 12,500 rpm Maximum TQ 72Nm (53ft.lbf) at 11,750 rpm  | ||
| M2nc |
Aprilia is a great bike. You have given me an opportunity to show what I was talking about. Here is the Dyno numbers for a stock M2. Look at the torque curve. Below 6000rpm the M2 has more torque than the Aprilia and the Aprilia has allot more torque than a I4 600cc. Buells are not about peak HP and Torque, look at that flat torque curve versus the "peaky" Aprilia and it ten times flatter than 600cc I4. That is why it does not matter what gear you are in, if you are somewhere between 2500prm and 6000rpm its all the same.  | ||
| M2nc |
Now an XB12R. This comes from a comparison with a Ducati SS1000. Again the torque curve is flat and peak torque is the same as the Aprilia. That extra torque down low mean more horsepower all the way up to the Buell's rev limit. So again more power where you need it for the street. In comparison, at 5000rpm the Buell has 70-75 hp where the Aprilia has 40hp. So like the 600cc you have get the revs up to keep up. But if you have the straightaway and no fear of arrest, the Aprilia will put the Buell in its place.  (Message edited by M2nc on June 04, 2006) | ||
| Badbuell82 |
"That is why it does not matter what gear you are in, if you are somewhere between 2500prm and 6000rpm its all the same." I agree, AND that's one of the things I like about my XB12, now that I'm an "old Man". It's akin to an automatic transmission, but for racing, or shear thrill of riding fast, the tweaked RSVR Factory is certainly the most exciting bike I've EVER owned, and there've been more than 30. | ||
| Rafartist |
If it doesn't matter "if its between 2500 and 6000", how come my 9 wont get up till 4000 or so. You do need to rev these some or I got a bad one. Every motor has a range that it likes to run in, a fast rider has learned to keep it there. Whether that means a 3rd gear turn on a Buell or the same turn in 1st on a ricer (I know, "thanks Capt. Obvious"). I like riding my Buell back and forth to work and short trips with my girl on the back, but for a spirited (fast) solo ride, I prefer to do it on a high strung bike wringing the neck out of it. That said, I love my Buell for practical riding whick accounts for 90% of my seat time. | ||
| Spatten1 |
The new Triumph 675 is supposed to be a great combination of the desireable traits of the twins and the fours. Not really off topic Hattori. | ||
| M2nc |
I haven't had a chance to go ride a Triumph but next to the GSX-R750, the new Triumph really sounds like my kind of bike. The Aprilia and Ducati 999R would be a blast to have, but price of entry limits that for me. | ||
| Hattori_hanzo |
I can honestly say that there WILL be a Daytona 675 in my garage sometime in the future. There's something to be said about being different and the Trumpet speaks to me like my Buell still does. I'm just glad I haven't got the nerve to go look at one (forget about test riding one!) for fear of having a Union Jack in my garage as opposed to ole Glory!  GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! | ||
| Wademan |
Guys... HORSEPOWER is what actually ACCELERATES your mass. Comparing maximum torque numbers of bikes is WORTHLESS. Torque is just one of the two variables that determines the power output of the motor at a given moment. The other variable is rpm. Compare the horsepower numbers at certin rpms for a more real world comparison. A comparison I like to make is the horsepower available to different bikes at highway speeds in top gear. ROLL ON ACCELERATION? There are lots of others that provide interesting insight. | ||
| Slaughter |
Laptimes or for other bikes: Quarter mile times. Everything else is just academic. | ||
| S1eric |
Comparing maximum torque numbers of bikes is WORTHLESS. Wow where do I start. Nope just going to let that one go. } | ||
| Sgthigg |
90% of buells performance is where you use it 100% of the time. Other I4s seem to have around 90% of theyre performance where you use it 10% of the time. | ||
| Heads |
M2nc " Heads - "My Friend" Have some pride man." ?? I have plenty of pride mate, dont understand what you are getting at. love my buell,when some nobody comes here bagging buell they are the village idiot | ||
| Blazinc5 |
I just had my XB12R dynoed last Sat. Came out with 80.69 HP Was hopeing for more since it suposedly has the race kit, (haven't verified the ECM). Local shop had a "Dyno-Day" and opened it up for free runs. So I took advantage of it and seen a bunch of rice grinder go and make about 100 or so HP. (Mostly 600cc or there abouts) My smile came back however seeing that My TQ was at bout 72 ft-lbs. and theirs was bout 37-40 ft-lbs... I don't know if anyone beat that all day... But maybe a busa that showed,when I was leaving, if he ran it.. lol OH yeah lol This statement:::: "S1eric-Guys... HORSEPOWER is what actually ACCELERATES your mass." Talk to drag racers and they will tell ya that may be true, But Torque is what gets the work done... |
