| Author |
Message |
    
Fastback69
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 11:00 pm: | 
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Aaron,
My dad and I started pulling the timing down like you recommended and it's working. He found a reference somewhere that stated that 1/16" equals 1o of timing on the sensor plate. We've pulled 2o out so far and it's running much smoother. I think another 2 and maybe one larger jet will get his bike fixed. I haven't been able to get mine tuned yet because the dealer ran a Triumph Daytona and it melted the exhaust tubes. Then they started blowing fuses. Oh, well. I'm still having it done. Thanks again for the help. |
Hoser
| | Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 12:13 am: |
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Fastback69:
Each mark on the timing plate= 2.5 degrees @ the cam resulting in 5 degrees @ the crank.
Jeff |
Fastback69
| | Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 08:37 am: |
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Hoser,
The timing plate on dad's bike isn't marked. It has a triangular window through which you can see a ring of bumps cast into the housing. Do the Buells actually have marks? |
Hoser
| | Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 08:57 pm: |
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Fastback: Yes |
Dougp
| | Posted on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 11:11 pm: |
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Hoser, on the subject of degrees of advance;
Would the "each mark on the timing plate = 2.5 degrees" apply to a Blast motor as well?
They have no marks on the timing plate, and White Bro.'s recommend advancing the timing 4 degrees with their pipe. I suppose I could etch factory settings and move the plate clockwise 1/2"?
dp |
Hoser
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 12:31 am: |
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Doud:
Yes the same is true for the blast , the reason being , the camshaft rotates at 1/2 of crankshaft speed. In the absence of timing marks on the cam sensor plate one could set the timing with a strobe light and set the timing with the mark closer to the rear of the timing hole rather than in the center , this would result in a few degrees of advance.
Jeff |
Chuck
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2001 - 01:33 pm: |
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just get one of those "nifty-neat" dial back timing lights (available for less than a C-note)...and use your TDC mark. |
Radarman
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 01:46 am: |
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Thought I would post my before and after dyno charts for the mods I had recently. I had a Vance & Hines slip on, Buell race ECM, and K&N Race filter kit added. Unfortunately, the dealer did not give me the HP and torque readings, only HP and speed. Additionally, the dyno guy shifted at 6000 rpm, so I expect that the modified HP would be higher if we went to the redline. I will get that redline dyno test soon. Otherwise, sorta usless if you ask me.. but here they are anyway:
stock to 6000 RPM:
with Vance & Hines slip on, Buell race ECM, and K&N Race filter kit to 6000 RPM:
 |
Radarman
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 01:53 am: |
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so it looks like 80HP at 6000rpm stock and 85HP at 6000rpm modified. Now I am really interested in the redline numbers. It really pulls now, and is able to throttle wheelie in second (barely).. One-Two shifts are real interesting now ;-)
One note, if you do the above mods the PowerCommander or Buell race ecm, the bike will have a really BAD case of the blues. A friend had the SAME mods as me the ecm and said the bike was virtually unridable because of lean stumble and general bad attitude. As soon as I brought him the race ecm, it made all the bad things go away.
Cheers! |
Radarman
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 11:40 am: |
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Correction to the above message:
One note, if you the above mods (muffler and filter kit) without the PowerCommander or Buell race ecm, the bike will have a really BAD case of the blues. A friend had the SAME mods as me minus the ecm and said the bike was virtually unridable because of lean stumble and general bad attitude. As soon as I brought him the race ecm, it made all the bad things go away. |
Airborne
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 10:52 pm: |
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Contrast and comparison for ya'll. Interesting numbers on your dyno run. I had a dyno run done last year when the bike was stock everything and had 85 HP at redline. My chart resembled yours with the semi straight line to peak power at redline. Through the winter I made a slow conversion to the same set up Race ECM, V&H, K&N filter w/airbox modification. Next time a dyno comes open I'll run it again. If you got a 5 HP gain I too probably got a 5 HP gain.
Oh yeah, I had the same lean condition prior to getting the race ECM. A must have for anyone in my opinion. Bone stock or modified. It eliminates the frumpy throttle response in the low to mid range (idle to 4000) that includes getting rid of the flat spot at 3500-4000rpm. |
X96283
| | Posted on Monday, June 18, 2001 - 04:05 am: |
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Can anyone provide me with stock dyno figures of an M2? I am looking to see where I stand...
My dealer installed a dynojet kit and a 4" supertrapp with 15 discs. I also have a force intake. They said they dyno tuned it for me. I had it done at another shop and got 72.2 hp and A/F right about 14.5 across all gears.
TIA
giusto
00 m2
oahu |
Aaron
| | Posted on Monday, June 18, 2001 - 08:37 am: |
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Most 99 & later M2's are 75-77hp off the showroom floor. Look at the Motorcycle online site, they have a test of a bone stock one, with a dyno sheet, it's really typical of what I've seen. International M2's come with Lightning cams and do better.
Generally speaking, you get little or no additional top end power from an aftermarket muffler, it's a midrange thing.
The Force is a good air cleaner and may help some over the breadbox over a range (see the carb page).
With respect to jetting, you'll make more power at something closer to 13:1 (right Al?).
AW |
Al_Lighton
| | Posted on Monday, June 18, 2001 - 09:37 am: |
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Aaron,
Not enough testing/equipment to confirm the exact number, but theoretically 13.5:1 A/F is probably pretty darn close to Max power. 14.5:1 is practically stoich, best for emissions and mileage but not for max power. Best bet is to tune the main jets for approx 13.5:1, and all the other jets for stoich. Exact mesurements for this are not easy to get and are probably not required. Giusto, how did they measure that A/F to be able to give you that value?
Al |
X96283
| | Posted on Monday, June 18, 2001 - 02:02 pm: |
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Well they had this slender copper "sniffer" inserted into the end cap. It was the closest they could come to actually putting the whole rod in the muffler... |
Hoser
| | Posted on Monday, June 18, 2001 - 11:44 pm: |
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Fellas:
The "sniffer" is the workin (hot!) end of the air / fuel monitor. It's an asset to any dyno tuning effort , as is the eddy current brake feature.
Aaron:
Tuning power commanders ( since taking the course in Vegas ) has been rewarding and fun !!. The A/F numbers we shoot for are 12.8 - 13.2 for power and 13.4 - 13.8 for economy , the beauty of PC2 & 3 tuning is the ability to adjust A/F over a wide variety of throttle positions in 500rpm increments. I'm likin it and on yet another learning curve .
Must go ........I'm being summoned to the hottub for cool refreshing beverages.
Jeff |
Dynodave
| | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2001 - 12:11 am: |
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I bought an 00 M2 with the intention of keeping it as stock as possible. Left the durn lock on the front wheel and crushed the air box so I installed a $45 teardrop air cleaner kit and a tall K&N filter. I also purchased the DynoJet Kit from Modesto for about $85.
After installing the kit I took the bike to Yankee Enginuity for a Dyno Tune. With the stock muffler in place we pulled 85 RWHP with a nice flat torque curve. ( no dips as I see on your 'expensive spread') For what you paid for the bike and all those goodies I could put an 88" motor in my M2 and unleash some SERIOUS ponies!!! |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2001 - 02:04 am: |
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DynoDave: Who's bike you talkin about? |
Fastback69
| | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2001 - 04:58 pm: |
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I got my M2 dynoed this Sat. It pulled 74hp and 72lb/ft of torque in a 4th gear roll on. I've rejetted the carb (45 slow/195 main), put on a Wileyco pipe, and advanced the timing 1.5 degrees. I tried retarding the timing but it ran like crap. It was about 80 - ish degrees with 70-80% humidity which the bike doesn't like. Cap says that we should be able to get it up to 80hp and about 85lb./ft. After talking with him and AndyS, I have no doubt that he can do it. I'll post my charts when I get them scanned.
Happy now? |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2001 - 07:34 pm: |
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Ex friggin static! 
Thanks fastback. Lookin forward to the chart. |
Dynodave
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2001 - 01:08 am: |
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That is my 00 M2 that I am talking about. I also have a '99 M2 with a similar setup except that the muffler was replaced with a 15" by 2.5" glass pack; it also pulls over 80 HP.
Two reasons thas I know that the dyno is accurate: First, the M2s routinely bury stock or poorly tuned modified Buells on roll-ons. Second, the dyno is a calibrated torque-reading type, not the cheap accelerometer rig that you usually see. |
Jeffsd
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2001 - 01:01 am: |
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Anybody have an idea what an 00 x1 with buell race kit should pull on a dyno run?
Jeff |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2001 - 02:40 am: |
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Jeff: Anywhere from 85 to 95 peak HP at the rear wheel depending on state of tune and other variables. There's a good comparison in archives here. But what you really want is a nice fat torque curve (better than 80 FT-LB?) in the conservative rpm range (from 3,000 to 6,000 rpm). |
Josh
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 12:56 pm: |
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My S3 last January:
My S3 yesterday with new Buell pistons (.005 over) Total Seal Rings, James .045 head gaskets and Nallin Stage 1 heads:
this run is after advancing the timing a hair, which picked up ~2hp through out the whole curve.
Next up: Race head pipe (when I can afford it)
Josh
99 S3T |
Ccryder
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 04:25 pm: |
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Josh:
Whisper "cams", "Cams", Honey all I need is "cams". IMHO the race header may fill your midrange a little and maybe 1-2 hp but "cams" is the word. Nothing radical but since you can now breathe, you need "cams" to take advantage of Brian's work. Too bad Mark R. doesn't have a chart of his S1 but with those heads and SEII cams he dynod 114.7 hp on his 96' S1.
Neil S. |
Josh
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 04:38 pm: |
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Neil,
What I'd like is 80-ft/lbs from 2000-6500 RPM. ;)
Brian told me to get the Race pipe and Stage1 (with the money I said I can spend). Then I'll save my pennies again for more mods.
If I had the time (ok, and money) I'd like to throw several sets of cams in there and see what happens, like M2 cams...
Did I mention she seems to have gained 5-8MPG?
Josh |
Tripper
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 06:07 pm: |
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Josh, Don't you have the West Tek pipe on there? It's every bit as good as the Buell race pipe. |
Josh
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 07:25 pm: |
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Tripper,
Muffler, not pipe. Tim(WestTek) mods your stock 99 pipe to be like a race pipe but doesn't make a complete 99-up pipe.
Josh
(oh yeah, his are better than the race stuff ;) |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 10:07 pm: |
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Josh, I thought that the Nallin heads require the Nallin Hurricane pistons in order to maintain compression ratio? Looks like she lost some mid range. That shouldn't happen should it? 
| Stock | Current | | RPM | HP | HP | | 3000 | 65 | 65 | | 3500 | 51 | 49 | | 3750 | 56 | 52 | | 4000 | 60 | 57 | | 4500 | 68 | 68 | | 5000 | 72 | 72 | | 5500 | 74 | 74 | | 6000 | 80 | 80 | | 6500 | 85 | 85 | | 7000 | 87 | 88 |
Can you tell I'm bored or what? 
Blake |
Josh
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2001 - 12:27 am: |
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Blake,
I was told the pistons are for the StageII and up guys trying to get as much as they can (and are required for Stage III and IV).
The interesting thing about that midrange loss:
Red curve has the WestTek muffler and K&N, the blue curve adds airbox mods (venturi) and the RaceECM. The RaceECM compensated great for the WestTek, but I lost power in the same range when I got heads.
Josh |
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