| Author | Message | ||
     Donutclub |
My tuner and I spent about 6 hours and 56 miles on the dyno today to develop a map for the Drummer SS. We could consistently pull 95 ponies (had one pull into 97 territory) with 78-79 ft-lbs of torque (consistently). Basically, 95's (and some change) could be pulled almost every time. The A/F ratios looked pretty good in the 100% throttle area, so we only made minor increases in that area. The middle area (closed loop area) was very lean without the O2 sensor to compensate. This must have been creating a large AFV factor onto the open loop values. It was scary lean in this area (18:1-16:1). We richened up this area quite a bit to try to hit the 14.7:1 A/F. Another area that was quite lean was from idle to the closed loop area. We richened up this area quite a bit as well. The bike idles much smoother now and the “fast idle” tendency is absent. The end result is a nice strong pulling engine that has a crisp throttle response. | ||
| Hogs |
You still have the xb12 right... | ||
| Donutclub |
Yes, the bike was a 2004 XB12R. | ||
| Hogs |
YEah same as mind, Not sure of all your mods, Thought the numbers might be abit higher , not by much though... | ||
| Torch |
were you using the race ecm?ive got the same pipe on my 12,w/open airbox and k&n and race ecm.16-18 to 1 is kinda scary.you think i should remap with direct link?dont want to kill my motor. | ||
| No_rice |
you are a little above my 9 but not alot. yours should be 8 to 10 horse higher than what you ended with. my nine pulled 92.8 and 72.4 or so, and we still had probably a good two hours of tuning left to do but just plain ran out of time. its good enough for know, atleast i can ride. | ||
| M1combat |
Mine was running ~17:1 stock as I recall... With a race ECM. I could be off though. The numbers themselves don't really mean anything. You have to look at the curve. | ||
| No_rice |
basically flat lined pulls from 1500 all the way to redline in 5th! it has a great flat torque curve | ||
| M1combat |
That's the nice thing about Kevin's pipes  . Still can't WAIT to get my hands on a CF . | ||
| Donutclub |
I've got the open air box kit and the race ECM. I'd recommend getting any bike dyno tuned after making intake and exhaust changes. These changes will lean any bike out. The difference in the Buell is that the computer learns of the lean condition and compensates the open loop values with the AFV. My bike ran rough at idle after resetting the AFV prior to tuning. It coughed, sputtered, and would quit on occasion. It was too lean because the AFV wasn't being applied (I'm guessing). Once we richened up the map in the lower area,the bike idled fine. I'm sure there could be some more fine tuning, but we had already spent 6 hours and we were both spent. | ||
| Aeholton |
Donutclub - How about posting your dyno charts in the Knowledge Vault? Would be interesting to see the curves. | ||
| Al_lighton |
Folks would be wise to read Jeff's (donutclub) last post a few times. The AFV mechanism was not designed to make it easy to swap pipes and airboxes. It was designed to compensate for ambient condition changes and the variances that occur from bike to bike, or even the same bike as it ages. It can, to some degree, compensate for some pipe or intake changes, IF the changes are linear. By that, I mean if the change causes the bike to be 10% lean through closed loop, and it is the same 10% lean across the open loop domain, the AFV scaling mechanism will compensate well. But few changes in the exhaust, or changes that change the tuned length of the intake tract, are linear. The AFV scaling mechanism of the open loop fueling curve is not capable of squishing down mountains or raising valleys in the fuel curve, it merely scales the whole curve up or down by a "fixed" percentage that is dynamically set while in closed loop operation. Jeff, 6 hours in a dyno room is very exhausting, I hear ya. Chasing those last couple tenths can be very time consuming. Al | ||
| Phantom5oh |
I have a Drummer SS on my 12, so I know that the torque curve is awesome, very linear, but I would love to see your graphs. It would be nice to compare them to the graphs of the 9. Those peak numbers are a little disappointing to me though. I'm surprised that a 9 is peaking in the same neighborhood as a 12. I know it's all about the area under the curve, not the peak but ricers only care about peak, and I am surrounded by rice. | ||
| Glitch |
Those peak numbers are a little disappointing to me though. I'm surprised that a 9 is peaking in the same neighborhood as a 12. The 9 is highly under-rated. | ||
| Freezerburn |
We are talking two different dyno's I'm guessing. One could be generous and one could be conservative. Can they really be compared? But I do have to say that some of the numbers I'm hearing that the 9's are pulling sound pretty darn good. | ||
| Glitch |
Can they really be compared? Maybe not the HP numbers, but the curves can. The Air Fuel Rations can be compared. The 9s being of shorter stroke can't match the 12's torque. | ||
| M1combat |
There have been twelves into the low 100's on the right dyno's though... | ||
| Skully |
The 9 is highly under-rated. I couldn't agree more. In third gear roll-ons with my Stage 1 XB9, I can consistently out pull a stock XB12 even though the rider weighs 25 pounds less than I do. Keith | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Al - This is a screen shot of average A/F values recorded on my Innovative datalogger. The data is 20 minutes of riding taken on the road and includes general riding as well as several hard pulls up to 100+. The bike is a '06 XB12Ss, Race ECM, open airbox and Drummer CF. I can break the data apart into sub second views under all conditions, but it takes a great deal of time to examine each pull or normal riding and consider what the data says - I'm sure you are well aware of this fact. The averages shown are indicative of a somewhat typical spirited ride.  | ||
| M1combat |
That looks like a pretty safe setup... | ||
| Donutclub |
Most of our dyno time was not concentrated in the upper range. It wasn't that far off initially. Most of our time was spent in the mid range area (closed loop area). My buddy ran the dyno while I wrote down the AF values for each cell, perhaps not the best way, but it's what we did. Here's a graph of the number 2 versus number 37 run: http://www.syarfam.com/XB12%20Drummer%20SS.bmp |
