| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
QUESTION: What are four benefits of synthetic base oil lubricants? Will post the answer next week. Who knows the answer?  | ||
| Jackbequick |
Are we talking technical or political merits? Or both? Jack :>  | ||
| Buellistic |
1. Engine runs COOLER !!! 2. Engine/trans. SPINS FREE'r(less drag) ... WHEN USED BOTH PLACES !!! 3.Roller and ball bearing(plus bushings) will last longer ... 4. Causes the engine seals last longer ... 5. The EPA loves it ... 6. Drains down from the TOP END(heads) quicker... 7. Less drag on OIL PUMP ... | ||
| Rocketman |
Molecular structure doesn't break down. Stays in grade. The two most important aspects? Rocket | ||
| Blake |
Keep in mind the answers encompass those that a tribologist would provide concerning the properties of the oil itself, not the beneficial effects those properties might have on/in an engine. | ||
| Rocketman |
Then I'd need to cheat and do a Google LOL ps, What or who's a tribologist???? Rocket | ||
| Buellistic |
MORE "BUELLschitte" !!! | ||
| Sweatmark |
Semi-edjumacated guess: synthetic base stock versus conventional oil. (1) Longer lube service life via better oxidation resistance; (2) Broader automotive service temperature range, via better cold-start performance - lower pour/cloud point for syn vs. conventional at same SAE viscosity (100 degC kinematic low shear), reduces reliance on pour-point depressant additive to achieve same W-rating; (3) Reduced mechanical wear via better long-term viscosity stability (higher Viscosity Index) and No.2 above - eliminates or reduces reliance on HMW VI-improver (the old "shear stability" topic); (4) Better mechanical efficiency, particularly in gearset & rolling element bearing applications, where EHL lubrication predominates... not so advantageous in plain/journal lubrication. These statements only apply to SHC PAO syn lubes, as opposed to other syn base stocks. Mark Oregon 20 years since Mobil Oil training. | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Rocket, "Tribology"- The science of lubrication and wear. HTH. | ||
| Rocketman |
It helped Steve  Rocket | ||
| Debueller |
more resistance to thermal breakdown protects against corrosion better than dino retains oil film better...slipperyer #4:dunno: | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Thanks Rocket.  | ||
| Blake |
No one else? Here's the official list of benefits. No one got four, but most got some. Way to go.
(Message edited by Blake on May 05, 2006) | ||
| Sweatmark |
OK, but #4 is definitely limited to "some cases"... eg. specialized industrial systems. FAR greater number of applications -whether measured individually or by annual consumption- are synthetic hydrocarbon (SHC) basestock lubricants, for which #4 doesn't apply. This statement is based on annual sales of Mobil Commercial lubes (by type) during the period I worked for them as Sales Engineer. Mobil proved that SHC polyalphaolefin (PAO) gear oils improved gearbox efficiency 20+ years ago. Polyglycols do the same, but have more limited uses due to seal swelling & compatibility: http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=167&relatedbook group=Lubrication http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/Product_Information/Gear_Lubes_Collection .asp If synthetic metalworking coolants are lumped together with synthetics used for conventional automotive and industrial lube applications, then the mix of basestocks broadens. But for gearbox, crankcase, and grease lube applications, the SHCs are king. Mark Oregon (shoulda kept my Mobil stock) | ||
| Oldnotbold |
My understanding is that 100% synthetic does not protect against corrosion as well as petroleum based oil. In fact, Rotax recommends not using synthetic (at least in the 2 stroke aircraft engines). I have always used 1 qt pure synthetic to 4 qt petroleum Castrol in my cars/trucks. | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
I see PAO and PEG oils mentioned here. How many motor oils are formulated from these base oils? | ||
| Brucelee |
A follow-on question could be, What motor oils are actually really synthetic motor oils-I.e. Group 4 and 5 syn oils? Answer-Not HD Syn 3.among others. | ||
| Sweatmark |
Very good question! Seems the rules have changed since I was with Mobil, when "synthetic" (almost) always meant PAO basestock. It's why I don't get too excited anymore about extended oil change intervals. Mark Oregon | ||
| Brucelee |
As I understand it, Mobil 1 still uses the PAO as its only base stock. That makes it a real syn group 4. Ditto, Amsoil, although I believe they use both PAO and the Esters too. Ditto Red Line. Most others are really highly refined dino oil using the Hydrocracked method. This makes them a Group 3. HD Syn 3 is a Group 3, but of course, they charge like it was liquid GOLD. I only use Group 4 and up for this very reason. | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
So, from the above, the answer I infer to my question is- "Not many". | ||
| Blake |
No matter how you get there, producing a lubricating oil comprised of only the optimum molecules and none of or extremely negligible quantities of undesireable molecules is what matters. I agree though that ultra-refined oil is not "synthesized" from other compounds. For example, if ultra-refined group-3 oils are to be called "synthesized oil" then Scotch whiskey should be called synthesized beer. | ||
| Rocketman |
Scotch whiskey should be called synthesized beer. That would be blended Scotch whiskey in your analogy. Mobil 1 would be a single malt! Most likely Laphroaig Rocket | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
I find the marketing people guilty on this. The public like the word "synthetic" in the same way they appear to like the word "digital". I believe many of the manufacturers are running close to being dishonest. Hence my point about PAO or PEG base stock and the number of motor oils formulated this way. | ||
| Rocketman |
Can someone please explain (again?) in lay mans terms what PAO or PEG means please? Rocket | ||
| Court |
For those of us who don't have time to read this entire thing.....is Mobil 1, at 3,000 intervals, a "good" thing? Just bought 2 new cars. Only changes I made were to Mobil 1 and K&N air filters. | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Some "true" synthetic base oil stock- PAO = Poly Alpha Olefin PAG = Poly Alkylene Glycol (Sorry, typo, "PEG" should read "PAG") HTH. (Message edited by steveshakeshaft on May 09, 2006) | ||
| Blake |
Court, If you are driving those vehicles long enough to get the oil up to a good hot operating temperature, hot enough to vaporize any accumulated moisture, I'd say your 3K mile interval is way overkill. You can safely go the entire manufacturer's recommended interval with no worries if you are using a good synthetic engine oil. Most new automobiles are good for at least 7.5K miles between oil changes. | ||
| Josh_ |
My new car has recommended oil change intervals about 15,000 miles apart- but the car monitors your drive habits and changes the interval on the fly. lots of highway extends it, lots of short city driving shortens it. | ||
| Court |
I tend to agree and one reason I use the Mobil 1 is to provide for times when I just rack the miles up so fast that it's not practical to change the oil every other week. With the new truck, I frankly am seeing maybe 10 -20 miles a weeks tops, Vick's car a couple hundred. I'd also gotten in the habit, driving in the very dusty conditions as the plant was under construction of cleaning and re-oiling the air filter every other week. My bet, in view of changed driving habits (I had 162,000 on the truck) that I'll go with the longer recommended interval. I dig that deal of the interval changing based on driving conditions. One of my concerns now is that I seldom get the engine up to temperature. Anyway you cut it. . . vehicles and lubricants are light years better than they used to be. | ||
| Iamike |
Court- My next door neighbor uses M1 in his Ford ZX2 (Focus) He has 240,000mi on it and doesn't have to add oil (he says). He uses a 15,000mi change interval and doesn't change the filter either between oil changes. Since he drives 110mi. each way, each day for work he kind of racks the mileage up pretty quick. But he also has two teenage boys that drive so the car doesn't sit still very long. Oldnotbold- I was pretty sure that I read that synthetics have better corrosion resistance than dinos. | ||
| Hootowl |
And the number one reason to buy synthetic oils... It keeps me employed. |
