| Author | Message | ||
     Bikoman |
My last trackday a guy went into a wild tankslapper on his Firebolt. Was heading off the track towards the guardrail, he bailed, the bike hit the guardrail and catapulted into the trees. It is now a custom stretched Firebolt. By the way, the rider was fine, I guess a few bruises. John  | ||
| Dago |
That pic was taken at a track? It looks more like the side of an interstate highway. I hate to think of what would have happened to that guy if he hit that guard rail. I think steering dampers on these things are a good idea; especially if you go to the track regularly. | ||
| Adrenaline0210 |
just watch judgment day 3 dvd, guy rails into a guard rail and makes his spine into an s shape... pretty nasty to see the x-rays and the surgery marks on his back. ouch | ||
| Isham |
Steering dampers should be standard. If they help with tank slapers this should be something the gov't regulates. The price on these things need to come down for a stupid shock. | ||
| Glitch |
Do not bring the gov't into our sport any more than they already are! Unless of course you just want to have everything to get all •••••• up. | ||
| Nuerburgringer |
Please give us the name of this track that is using unprotected guardrails? It'd give the story credibility. | ||
| Isham |
Glitch is right. I guess we should be free to do what ever we want. Even if it means a little thing like a damper could save lives. | ||
| M1combat |
That kinda looks like a corner worker... but the lights aren't taped... | ||
| Socalbueller |
Isham, not to be a dick but nobody is stopping you from buying one. | ||
| Isham |
socal you're right no one is stopping me. The scarcity factor is what makes them way over priced. I'm trying to figure out reasons for them to be more inexpensive. | ||
| Glitch |
Oh and if the gov't got involved the price would come down? You're not from around here are you? All kidding aside, if you think you need a damper, there's two inexpensive ways of getting one. #1-Set your suspension up correctly. This is free, and unless you're on the track it's all you'll ever need. #2-E-bay. Oh and one more thing, love those shoes! | ||
| Bomber |
damper are great, but are often used to mask problems -- I'm thinkin whatever got the scoot where it is would not have been totally avoided if a damper were installed | ||
| Bikoman |
Track is Grattan, the guardrail is way off the track....here is another here http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/196836.html?1147369873 John (Message edited by bikoman on May 11, 2006) | ||
| Glitch |
Agree with ya Bomber. The only time I've thought I needed a damper was when the track said I had to have one. I think to race in WERA you have to have one as well. I've pushed my bike pretty hard and it's always been as stable as myself. OK maybe I do need a damper, there are those that sat I'm unstable! | ||
| Dago |
Dampers are just another safety device. 99% of the time, you don't need it. It's that 1% of the time when you really wish you had it. To me, that $300-$400 is pittance in comparison to what can happen during that 1%. (Message edited by dago on May 11, 2006) | ||
| Gowindward |
I hit a opossum here a few weeks back. That induced a pretty good shake to the front end of the bike, that only lasted a second. The bike settled right down like nothing happened. I think these bikes are very stable at speed if rode in a relaxed manor. | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Tank slappers are usually caused from driver input. Holding the bars to hard. Releasing pressure on the bars will help reduce or stop a tank slapper. Good book to read is Keith Codes Twist of wrist II | ||
| Anonymous |
Steering dampers have plenty of negatives as well, which is why they aren't standard on most bikes. They are good for racing conditions, particularly hard acceleration when leaned way over on bumps, which is why most racers buy them. However, they can actually make bikes significantly more unstable in high speed weave, which is a phenomenon seen more often on bikes out on the road than on the race track. So they aren't used a lot in production, which makes them expensive. Also, cheaper steering dampers are more likely to enhance weave, so putting a cheap one on is not a good idea. If you are going racing, buy the best one you can afford. | ||
| Pcmodeler |
Do designs other then the standard fork negate the need for a dampener....for example the front swingarm design used on the BMW (don't remember the model name)? Essentially, is it the antiquated design of the fork that causes these problems? Are other designs much better overall for both street and race? | ||
| Anonymous |
No, nothing negates it, and if there were better designs out there, you would see them on more bikes. Forks really aren't so antiquated. In a sense they are dual MacPherson struts. For an eye-opening experience on alternative designs, ride a Bimota Tesi (swingarm front end design) with worn bushings (about 2,000 miles on them). Really, really scary. More than enough to send you running back to standard forks! | ||
| Blake |
"I'm trying to figure out reasons for them to be more inexpensive." As most often is true, if one were to try to build a steering damper that actually works well, one will come to appreciate the significant amount of engineering and testing that goes into producing such a product. I imagine that a motorcycle steering damper, at least a good one, is a lot more than merely a simple shock absorber. You can't get a bike on the track for a CMRA practice session let alone race without a steering damper. There is probably a good reason for that. | ||
| Lpowel02 |
However, they can actually make bikes significantly more unstable in high speed weave... what's high-speed weave? is it the forks flexing independently? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Does the XBRR run a damper? I can't remember. Whats the factory part number for it?  | ||
| Bomber |
without trying to start a urination contest ;-} standard telescopic forks have a number of htings going against them, and really on one thing going for them -- against, stiction; flex; difficulty in couteracting fronk brake induced dive for, a long time of constant improvement and a huge database of knowledge while I'm sure a tesi with shot bearings is a handfull, that's not quite an apples to apples comparison fact of the matter is that front suspension (with a couple of exceptions like the Tesi and BMW designs) has been relatively stagnant for as long as we've had tele forks -- improved seal material (to reduce stiction), upsidedowningf the dears (to reduce chatter under breaking) and the other "improvements" are, I believe, addressing symptoms without addressing root causes -- kinda like Mr Buell chuckling over the big four making exhaust cans outa titanium to mask the negative impact resulting form poor placement of the muffler me, I'd like to see an alternate front sustemsion that allows a decent amount of tuning to get rid of dive -- at an affordable price and wieght, of course ;-} high speed weave isn't the legs flexing, Lpowel, so much as it is the bike responding the the presence of the damper -- your bike is always addjusting the forks left and right in response to the road, the wind, your input -- even when riding in a "straigly" line, the forks are constantly moving left and right -- a poorly adjusted damper (or a bad one) makes that turning harder, so it doesn't happen until there is sufficient force to overcome the damper -- am I makin sense? | ||
| Sweatmark |
PCModeler - "Do designs other then the standard fork negate the need for a dampener....for example the front swingarm design used on the BMW (don't remember the model name)?" We've got 3 BMWs in the garage right now, 2001, 2002, 2004, all Boxer Roadsters with Telelever front ends. The 2001 R1100R was factory-equipped with steering damper (as was my old '96 R850R), while the newer R1150R bikes have no damper. Geometry and handling of the older bike is noticably different from newer bikes, but all are VERY stable... which also means un-flickable. Long wheelbases and conservative trail make those bikes great for road trips and (mild) sports-touring. In contrast, my XB flicks like nobody's business, but I'm definitely getting a damper for track days. Mark Oregon | ||
| M1combat |
Motorcycles can't go straight (for all intents and purposes anyhow). They are always falling over. They are a self righting system. The self righting comes in the form of the steering head turning ever so slightly into the fall and throwing the bike back over the contact patches. Then it happens again. A damper (the dry kind, not a wet rag (AKA-dampener)) will "delay" the steering-head's tendency to correct and will cause a weave... | ||
| Nsbuell |
I'm really considering a damper because of the rough roads where I live. I've had a couple of tankslappers on the street including one that ended in a crash. Maybe I'm just learning not to grip the bars so tight cause the bike was really stable when I took it to the track recently even though I was pushing it harder than ever. | ||
| Anonymous |
Bomber, my point on the Tesi was that the bearings WERE worn out at only a couple of thousand miles. The biggest issue was the enormous stack up of bearings in the Tesi front end that added up to a monstrous amount of slop. Maybe they weren't totally worn out from a bearing standpoint, but they were from the standpoint of using the motorcycle. In comparison, normal forks run a long, long time. So the grass may look greener on the other side, but usually simplicity wins out. | ||
| Daves |
Blake wrote, "You can't get a bike on the track for a CMRA practice session let alone race without a steering damper. There is probably a good reason for that." And yet for the past 3 years I have been doing track days on XBs and lap the track as fast(or faster) as a lot of guys that race and I do it without a damper? I know several other Buell riders that can do the same. I have several thousand miles of track time. There is only one track that I have ever had ANY HEADSHAKE and that is Autobahn north. It has a bump just as you come out of turn 2 in second and is exactly in the spot I shift to 3rd. After a lap or 2 it never bothered me. In my humble opinion you don't need one. But since I sell them,if you want one or think you need one that's cool too. | ||
| Bomber |
Anon -- sorry, sir -- you're aboslutely right -- some of the more complex designs (tesi is certianly one) can't possibly work well for long -- tolerance stackups would kill half the bikes off the production line, no doubt simplicity, indeed, will win -- I'd still like to be able to dial my front end dive, as you've been able to do in the most inexpensive of cars for a long far ;-} cake? what good is cake if ya can't eat it? ;-} | ||
| Sweatmark |
Any other XBs here do track days at Portland (PIR)? "Porsche Bump" at entrance to Turn 6 & back straight gave some head shake: 6 is slightly off-camber and you're on the gas. That's my rationale for steering damper; I can't justify the damper for street use, aside from one mid-corner bump on a favorite local road. | ||
| Ryker77 |
Could somebody give me the idiot guide to what a steering damper does? | ||
| Bikoman |
One Idiot's Guide to Tankslappers and Steering Dampers........http://www.sportrider.com/ride/RSS/113_0206_motorcycle_tankslappers/ John | ||
| Blake |
Dave, I didn't used to run one either. But I've seen the result of the unexpected tank slapper too. It's a good idea on a track to have one. I think the seat belt analogy is a valid one. When the CMRA added steering dampers to the list of required equipment, I bought a nice used Ohlins damper for the Cyclone. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
I can think of a particular day just over a year ago where I would have REALLY liked to have a damper on my XB... | ||
| Krassh |
Here is an alternative front end for ya! Courtesy of Yamaha and James Parker.   | ||
| Krassh |
Oh yeah and 88,000 miles and I have not had to rebuild the forks because there are none. |
