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Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 03:33 pm: | 
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If I had any money, I'd say something.  |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 06:34 pm: |
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Jimi,
It was explained to you about the cush drive, that it is in the clutch rather than the wheel. What's the problem understanding this? |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 12:23 pm: |
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Anony sez:
"Jimi,
It was explained to you about the cush drive, that it is in the clutch rather than the wheel. What's the problem understanding this?"
Why assume that I don't "understand" it? The way you phrased it, I feel like it sounds condescending...kind of the same way as it did when you were referring to Rich's use of Brembo brakes on his FX bike. You may not even intend for it to sound that way, but we can only read the words without hearing your inflection.
For the record: I do understand it, but that doesn't mean that it will be the final design if they can not make it work...and from the sound of it, the final design is still pending, to say the least.
That is why I said, "I am still thinking that the rear hub cush drive may start looking pretty good before this is all over. How much of a disadvantage could a couple of pounds of unsprung weight on the rear wheel be, when all of the fast factory guys are using the same set-up? It doesn't seem to be slowing DiSalvo or Josh down much. Or Ben Spies for that matter."
I am not trying to challenge somebody, anybody (you , whoever you are) here, just prognosticating. No harm in that on a web site that is designed for such foolishness, is there?
The development of a racebike requires the testing and determination of the best techniques for applying a new device or process to production. Who knows where this process will end...even those on the inside?
To say that it is set in stone that the slipper clutch with cush drive built into it will be the only clutch mechanism for this bike, and everything else will be designed around it, would hamstring the development process unnecessarily. It would also constitute bad engineering practice. We learn more from our mistakes than our successes, even though our achievements are a lot more fun...which is the key word here on Badweb, FUN.
And that is all I am having here (this isn't my job), so might I suggest that you lighten up a little and join in .
jimidan |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 01:56 pm: |
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Join in the criticism that we don't know what we are doing at Buell? The comments of our "bad engineering?" Hmm, I don't think so. When you are one of the folks who actually knows what is going on and the depth of engineering involved, I find it impossible not to react to barbs from folks who don't know.
I guess 'cause it is my job. Call me thin skinned. I could shut up and let the snide bashing continue, like "gee, the Japanese are doing it so it must be bad engineering to do it differently". But I probably won't. So have your fun second guessing the guys who are busting their butts building a real American sport bike. We get our fun out of building them, I guess. |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 02:56 pm: |
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I, personally, am not certain a lot of folks have a true appreciation for the level of professional engineering that goes into a Buell.
There is a lingering "saw the muffler off and make it faster" view of engineering as opposed to the true discipline.
Buell has, heck I've been writing about it for over 12 years, assembled some of the most impassioned motorcyclists I've ever met. But....that's not enough.
There are THREE other key elements.
First, all of these folks are passionate and gung-ho about many things. Some play guitar, some collect model airplanes but it's that common element of being absurdly impassioned. It tends to permeate all facets of a persons life.
Second, passion, absent a GREAT education, is like a bullet fired from behind a blindfold. The people that Erik Buell has assembled represent the "best of the best" from countries like India, Mexico and yes . . the Republic of California. On their paperwork yoiu'll find not only racing licenses listed but schools like Berkeley and M.I.T. In 1998 I got to spend 10 days, on behalf of Buell, sequestered in Cambridge, MA and I'll tell ya what, folks there hold the term "Buell Engineer" in very high regard.
Third, and perhaps most importantly, is you have to be able to truly understand what TEAMWORK is. Many folks, having been recent graduates of some superficial "partnering" exercise talk about it, but Buell puts the rubber on the road and has produced some legendary teams.
Frankly, as an ex-Marine, if I were pinned down under fire, I'd be thrilled about having Jon Bunne leading the group.
Building motorcycles for the consumer market is not "shade tree" wrenching. There is a tremendous amount of thought that goes into ALL Buell products and, given the common passion for racing, and Steve Anderson's name on the product, I have difficulty believing each and every part of the XBRR isn't thought out in great detail.
Court |
Steve_a
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 04:15 pm: |
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None of the failures that occurred at Daytona would have been prevented by a slipper clutch or a cush drive. Had we had a working slipper clutch, McWilliams would probably have qualified on the front row. The things that caused the failures have been changed; the slipper clutch is still being worked on. |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 02:00 am: |
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Anony sez:
"Join in the criticism that we don't know what we are doing at Buell? The comments of our "bad engineering?" Hmm, I don't think so. When you are one of the folks who actually knows what is going on and the depth of engineering involved, I find it impossible not to react to barbs from folks who don't know.
I guess 'cause it is my job. Call me thin skinned. I could shut up and let the snide bashing continue, like "gee, the Japanese are doing it so it must be bad engineering to do it differently". But I probably won't. So have your fun second guessing the guys who are busting their butts building a real American sport bike. We get our fun out of building them, I guess."
Say what? Stop putting words in my mouth, er ah, posts. I never said that the folks at Buell do not know what they are doing with the XBRR. Nor did I say "gee, the Japanese are doing it so it must be bad engineering to do it differently". Where the heck did that come from? You even put it in quotes! Not.
I would like to try and solve puzzle now, Pat...Are you Neo in The Matrix?
I am not criticizing anything that Buell is doing with this bike...I am not the expert here. I never said I was. There are no barbs for the development team in my quiver. Let me repeat what I said that it would be bad engineering practice to stick with a design that wasn't working, not that Buell was doing that. Frankly, I think the folks at Buell are too smart to do that as the whole bike seems to be very innovative (typical for Buells). But it seems you were implying that they would stick with it regardless...and telling me in a rather condescending manner that I just didn't "understand".
So, wouldn't it be bad engineering practice to do that? Has the final design been established? Aren't there still several ideas on the table? Isn't this site designed for us fans to bench race and speculate about what the problems are and what solutions may be on the drawing board? Can't I do that without being accused of "criticizing", "bashing", flinging "barbs" or "second guessing"...all very negative things for a true Buell fan to do.
Are you really questioning my Buell fanaticism ? I can assure you that I drank the Kuell-aide a long time ago...mmm, good to the last drop. I have not one, but two Buells...and a big fat Pegasus tattoo on my arm (the only tattoo that I have, BTW). How many Pegasus tattoos do you have on your body? I am in this for the loooong haul.
Plus, I went to nearly all of the FUSA/CCS races in the Eastern US last year to watch the Buells run...and I rode my Buell to most of them. I will bet that I was Buell's biggest fan in that respect, as I was usually the only Buell fan there who didn't have some affiliation with a team. And, I HAVE a Warr's Jeremy McWilliams T-shirt! , sent to me by John Warr himself that I wore to the FX race at Barber.
I eat, drink and sleep this stuff, and I suppose that you do too...mystery person, but you ARE getting paid for it. Maybe you are too thinned skinned to be involved in these discussions without getting overly defensive and reading into it stuff that I supposed said, I don't know. I think the crucial element will be that you do not find it entertaining any more. It sounds like you are almost there.
Look, I hope that the very innovative slipper clutch with built-in cush drive works out for you guys, and that you can get these bikes back on the track where they belong. But my point is that if it doesn't work out, that it would not be a disadvantage since every other chaindriven bike has a cush drive in the rear hub. I will be up in the stands rooting for Buell like I always do even if the problems continue. Hey, I'm on your side!
Court, I think you are preaching to the choir there bro.
jimidee
(Message edited by jimidan on May 05, 2006)
(Message edited by jimidan on May 05, 2006) |
Jon
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 02:49 am: |
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I don't blame Anony(s) for being thin skinned at times. There are some folks who blow hot air and whine as a habit about everything Buell. It gets old real quick and has been old for a long time.
Rock on as expected, Buell. |
Steveshakeshaft
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 05:18 am: |
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Exactly, Jon. As a Mechanical Engineer (in Machinery Development) I look at a Buell and I can see the engineering in it. I haven't seen an XBRR yet, but I can't wait to do so. It must be a dream assignment to work on. |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 09:36 am: |
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As a non-engineer in the Peanut Gallery, even I can look at a Buell and can see the engineering in it. I worked with engineers for 30.5 years (actually an Engineering Tech while working thru college) and I can tell you that I have seen the Standard Specifications books too ("Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"), so you don't have to be a PE to see the obvious. Even a blind man can tell when he is walking in the sun! But I concede that having a few around when it actually came time to build something was pretty handy too.
I don't blame Anony for being thin-skinned either with folks who are actually "criticizing", "bashing", flinging "barbs" or "second guessing" everything Buell, which burns me too. Hey, I get this crap all the time in the stands...a lot more than they do in the pits! But just because some do this I am not going to let him take it out on me by mischaracterizing what I wrote.
jimidan |
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Buell Racers Take 6 Wins, 27 Podiums at Road America!
