| Author | Message | ||
     Chuck |
Hey Ray, maybe his pads are just "glazed". Sometimes "contaminants" can get cooked into the surface of the pads. It usually happens when they are new; and once they're glazed, they usually never work as intended. Jap bikes often have this problem because when they are shipped, they are coated with an oily film to prevent oxidation during transit. Sometimes, the guys who set the bikes up don't clean the rotors well enough. If you change his pads, clean the rotor, and even the new pads with brake cleaner, before installation. | ||
| Ocbueller |
Ray, As Chuck said "contaminants". My X1 puked trans oil out the vent and all over the rear pads, could be what the problem is. SteveH. | ||
| Jmartz |
Jeff: Now that you mention it those pads are dragging and are quite noisy. The rear rotor is shot anyway and being an '96 it has been difficult getting a replacement one (rear rotors changed in '97). I just hate paying $40 for stock pads at the HD store, although I must mention that stock ones are the only ones with clips that not only pulls them off the rotor but eliminate rattle. Jose | ||
| Airborne |
Arvel has the correct answer for the light action on the rear brake. It's made like that on purpose. I would like to add to Arvel's statement about "setting up the suspension by using the rear brake" This is called "Trail braking" Read twist of the wrist II by Keith Code. The light set up prevents rear wheel lock up. Rear wheel lock up is bad juju when going hot into a corner. Trail braking also controls (slows down) the weight shift from rear to front and retards front end dive when the front brake is applied. This helps the handling when cornering. Brakes that are set up for trail braking aren't meant to stop you, they are meant to control the handling when going into a corner. Well Raymaines I hope this helps shed some light on the rear brake question. However if the braking feels way to light it can be made stronger by getting better pads than the stock Nissin pads and completely replacing the brake fluid. Purchase a brake bleeder kit from NAPA to do the fluid change. Brake fluid should be changed once a year any-ways. Doing this won't make it super strong for stopping but it will feel better than the nothing feeling it has now. | ||
| S2carl |
Jose, Ray I bought a set of EBC Kevlar rear pads from Tat when my oiltank split on the S2 and spewed oil all over the rear rotor and pads. They fit great and added a lot of feel and a bit of extra braking over stock. If the Ferodo's don't pan out, give them a shot, I think you'll like them. Ride safe all Carl | ||
| Tripper |
JMartz is Ferodo Man! | ||
| Jmartz |
Thanks for the posting Dave. Notice the flush hollow axle too. Jose | ||
| Gravedigger |
first time replacing front tire. anybody have schematics or a copy of the the users manual they can email me in regards to this, should be fairly simple but just want to make sure I get it right. thanks keith | ||
| Leeaw |
After reading the forecast for rain in lovely NY, I am pulling my wheels off and painting them. Any suggestions about what to watch out for when reinstalling? I have the service manual, but my worst fears are getting the front rotor off, which I could not do last time, and alignment of the rear wheel. I had saved some info, but my hard drive crashed and I lost everything. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Lee | ||
| Dark_Ninja |
Okay here's a question and a gripe all in one! (Who ever said I wasn't multi-talented!!!) The 'Rotor Rattle' from the front of my '98 S3T finally pushed me over the edge. So, I stopped by my local Buell dealer and asked them to order me the '01 Rotor. Parts guy tells me..."Well, I'll have to check with Chuck (the owner) and make sure this is okay. We don't normally like to see people change their brakes like this." WTF? The whine is...where do these guys get off trying to tell me what I can put on my bike? My guess is that a typical HOG rider would probably install a fist in somebody's face for this. I know that *I* wanted to. C'mon, it's a new rotor for crying out loud! It's not like I am trying to strip the brake off the bike or anything! I told 'em that if they had a problem with it I would just order the thing from somewhere else. "We will check and get back with you." Grrrr. Now for the question, does anyone know of ANY reason why I shouldn't pull the stock roter off my '98 and replace it with the new '01? Thanks for listening! | ||
| Pilk |
I think I would have very politely informed that parts counter genius to ORDER THE F*&^%"G rotor, thank you! Swap away that rattle. pilk | ||
| Raymaines |
I think there is some confusion here. I'm the customer, you're the parts dude. I write the checks, you do what your told. Order the f***ing rotor. Do it now. | ||
| Pilk |
Does any one have an informed opinion of the Michelin pilots or Avon Venom tire? My 207's are getting thin and am thinking of trying something new. Have been very pleased with the performance of the Dunlops to this point, wet or dry. I ride rain or shine. pilk | ||
| Gravedigger |
actually all I need is the torque specks for the front axle and fork clamps, any assistance would be greatly appreaciated! thanks keith | ||
| Dave |
Keith: You're typing really was not invisible. Axle nut first: Apply loctite blue (don't forget the anti-sieze on the axle shaft) torque to 48-53ft-lbs (65.1-71.pNm) Pinch screws: 13-15 ft-lbs (17.6-20.3Nm) Read the archives and there "should" be some guidance on the front rotor removal. It's very close but does come out without damaging the wheel. Remember ... masking tape is your friend. Drop a note if you need more info or call me. DAve | ||
| Blake |
Dark Ninja: Although the common misconception is that the rotor is causing the rattling, the fact is that in almost all cases the rattling is due to the loosely mounted brake pads not having any retention springs, so at the right vibrational frequency (around 900 to 1000 rpm) they flop around inside the calipers making a racket. The '99 and later models solved this by including a very simple spring between pads and carrier pins that simply puts enough pressure on the edges of the pads to keep them from dancing around. I've got the same issue with my '97 M2. Am looking to install a spring to prevent the rattling at near idle rpms. If you doubt that the pads are the source of the rattling try the following: With the bike in neutral, on the side stand, and running/rattling... using your fingers or a couple of eraser tipped pencils, apply (parallel to the plane of the disk) pressure on the exposed outer edge of each front brake pad. If the rattling stops, it is the loose pads (you've not excerted any pressure on the disk itself, only the pads adn calipers). If not, it's a loose disk/rotor. I'm thinking that a dab of RTV or silicon adhesive at each pad/carrier-pin might be an easy rattle stopper. Not sure how durable that will be though. Just be sure the pads are off the disk when the brake is not engaged. I'm pretty sure the new beefier rotor system was implemented to address a very few cases where misfitted parts had resulted in worn/sloppy disk to rotor connections. Blake | ||
| Dark_Ninja |
Blake, Thanks for the tip, I will try and stabilize the pads with a pencil eraser later today. Seems odd to me though since if I grab the rotor itself it quits. But I have an open mind, will give it a shot. If it IS the pads, do you have spring setup in mind to stop it? DN | ||
| Blake |
DN: Yep, same with my '97 M2. Grabbing the rotor will significantly alter the natural frequency of the front wheel (you are effectively adding the mass of your arm to the system), thus the rattling stops, cause the amplitude of the vibration is significantly reduced. If you have a chance to check out the '99+ pad installation, you will see the retaining spring I'm talking about. The spring may even retrofit to older Buell calipers/pads? Where's all the smart people when we need 'em? Got some math and physics on this. Wanna see it? Here it is!  Natural frequency (fn)of a spring/mass system is simply the 1/2p times the square root of the spring stiffness (K) divided by the mass (m). For any vibrating system: To reduce natural frequency either increas mass, or reduce stiffnes or do both. To increase natural frequency either reduce mass, or increase stiffness or do both. A Spring's stiffness constant (for a linear system) is simply the amount of force (P) at a given point in a given direction divided by the associated deflection at that same point and in that same direction. Say a 100Kg dude standing still on the end of a diving board causes the end of the board to deflect 0.10 m downward. The diving board's spring constant at that point (the end) in the vertical direction would be 100Kg/0.10m = 1000Kg/m. In other words, for every 1.0 Kg of force applied there, the end of the diving board will deflect 1.0 mm (1/1000th of a meter). So where's the spring that allows our pre- '99 brakes to rattle so much? It's not the front shock springs (wrong direction plus they are significantly damped). The forks themselves are actually the springs in this case. They act like cantelever beams (like a diving board or one leg of a tuning fork) and the mass is the front wheel/brake assy. It just so happens that at idle the engine is producing cyclic vibrations at 1000 per minute or 16.7 cycles per second, (aka "Hertz", abbrv. = "Hz"); 16.7 Hz or a multiple thereof is coinciding with the natural frequency (fn) of the fork/wheel/brake assy. Ever notice at idle while sitting still how grabbing the front brake will cause more vibration to hit your handlebars and seat (the rest of the bike)? With the front brake disengaged, the wheel is free. When engaged th front brake canstrains the tire/wheel from moving in the fore/aft direction or any component thereof. When free to vibrate the front forks/wheel assy is acting like a tuned mass damper, a popular way to protect structures against damage from earthquakes. So, next time someone rags you about your rattling front brake, just cooly reply "That's the audible verification system for the Buell tuned mass damper." heheheheh Blake (onesickfreakingpuppyforsure!) PS: For any other sick puppies who are interested in simple harmonic motion, see http://www.gmi.edu/~drussell/Demos/SHO/mass.html and http://www.wpi.edu/~david/springs/sld001.htm and http://www.herzan.com/HERZ2.HTM . | ||
| Blake |
Arvel will derive the equation for fn as soon as he completes his countersteering dissertation. heheheh  | ||
| Tripper |
"That's the audible verification system for the Buell tuned mass damper." Oh man.... get some help. | ||
| Ralph |
Blake, you have a bike now. Go ride. Please. By the way, what does half a squirt (1/2p*Sqrt) have to do with vibration? Oh, I get it, you stuff half of some squirt bugging you into the brake to settle 'em down. Good idea. bighairyralph | ||
| Blake |
Trip, Ralph: I've got the helmet mounted heads-up display working and as I ride am dictating to the voice recognition software this very post via high speed wireless. Nyah! Actually, the weather is really sucky up here right now. Rode last night though! Still may take off for a riding/camping weekend tomorrow morning. Anyone wants to join up let me know. | ||
| Bigblock |
Pilk, I had a set of Pilot Sports, they lasted about 40% longer than the 207, but I never got to rain test them. They were quite sticky hot, took a little longer to warm up than 207's, and the bike displayed significant understeer that I was eventually able to mostly tune out by juggling suspension and tire pressure settings. It was quite unsettling at first, though, and I'm not sure I would reccomend them for M2's. I have a set of Avon Azarro AV39/AV40 sportII's right now which I love, but they are not a rain tire, they're a bit short on tread for that I would say, but they are a big step above 207's in the dry. And I'd say they will last about the same. According to Avon, the Azarro AV35/36 should work better than 207's wet or dry and last longer, but I haven't tried 'em yet. And I'm real hard on tires, my 205's lasted 4,000 mi., but I milked the last 1000, they were DONE at 3000, 207's go maybe 1800mi on the rear, 500 more on the front, which ain't worth milking, and Pilots 3200. Well, I think I've bored you guys enough now... Ray | ||
| Court |
Blake: I got's ta know man......what kinda dive did the 100kg dude do? Court | ||
| Chuck |
Remember, Blake...the first step in over-coming a problem is admitting you have one  | ||
| Blake |
Hello. My name is Blake; I like Physics. I have Physics every day mixed intermittently with as much female anatomy as possible. Blake (recheckingplaneticketfornextthursdayafternoon) | ||
| Chuck |
maybe your "better half" will let you tatoo E = mc "squared" on her stomach. | ||
| Ralph |
Hey Rocket, got a question 'bout your roached Dymag. Is the bearing seat aluminum? What ever it is, how much of it is there? And dude, what the hell is the deal with the coke can shim? What for? bighairyralph | ||
| Rocketman |
The hub is magnesium. On the drive side, like Buell, the inner bearing sits in the hub and the outer sits in the pulley. When I got back from Monaco to St Tropez I'd noticed the rear felt a little loose in slow hairpin corners. Further inspection and I found the inner bearing had a space between the outer race wall and the hub. Obviously the bearing had spun. I wanted to pack it tight with feeler gauge as it's like shim stock right, but non were available so the coke can and bearing seal were a feeble attempt to gain some reliability as I had nearly a 1000 miles to go to get to Croix. Anyway, as loose as it is now, it has held up rather well considering. It got me home and I can see no sign of the hub wanting to break, just a s h i t load of play in it. Anyway, you can only feel the wobble at very slow speed I'm calling Dymag later, wish me luck. Rocket in England | ||
| Jasonl |
BGR - Didn't you have to "knurl" your wheel when the bearing spun in it? Can you do that with Magnesium? |
