| Author | Message | ||
     Jak |
Yesterday I went riding with my usual group of Italian and Jap litre bikes and eventually met up with a guy on a 999R and his buddy on an RC51. We rode the hell out of Hwy 71 and some other back roads and I have two questions after observing how hard I was riding. First, to keep pace I was keeping my rpm within a grand of redline and ended up bouncing off the rev limiter a lot and I was riding in this range for most of the day. How bad is this? Second, I was changing a lot of gears and at one particuler section we were probably doing 85-90 going into a 25 mph corner. I dropped a couple of gears and when I let the clutch out I thought I had enough throttle but the rear wheel did not think so, causing a little lock up and some minor sliding. Is this bad for the clutch or other vital parts? It looks like the center section of my tire lost a lot of tread yesterday, leading to my last question; how long do you ride on a tire? The center is starting to get smooth, just a little tread left and the sides have adequate tread. I'm riding on the stock Dunlops and have about 3200 miles to date. | ||
| Christiankid3 |
About your first question, I know that it is not good to run your motor that hard for that amount of time. Don't feel bad because I know how you feel. I find myself keeping the revs up quite often . . . much more fun to get on the throttle! You are probably going to need new tires soon, as the rear tires only last around 3500 miles. I just purchased new tires from http://www.sporttour.com/, and I got a really great deal. I went with the Pirelli Diablo Strada, to increase the mileage I will get out of them. I haven't put them on my bike yet, but they look great and have much more tread than the Dunlops. I wouldn't recommend mixing tires so you will probably need to buy both the front and the rear (less than $240). Hope this helps! | ||
| Windaddiction |
It's a bike ride it like it was stolen  I ride mien pretty hard sometimes... You just have to keep in mind high performance engine high performance maintance! So keep the oil changed and giver! as for the clutch I have no idea... I wheelie and do burnouts and they are hard on a clutch but fun | ||
| Stretchman |
The rev limiter on a stock bike is set so that you have a safety envelope. That's why it is there, to keep you from over revving the bike. The engine should theoretically be able to run at the rev limiter all day long without issue. Theoretically, of course. Now, the Buell powerband is a different story. For every bike out there there is a powerband. Sometimes, taking it too the rev limiter is not as good as trying to keep it in the powerband. IIRC, this is about where the torque and HP curves meet. I would say, for best performance, between 3500 and 5500 RPMS or so for the Buell, maybe 5000, before you'd get more out of the next gear than trying to wind it out. The nicer thing about a Buell is that you really don't have to keep changing gears once you find the zone that your particular bike performs in. Rolling the throttle, instead of whacking it, especially on a Buell, will definitely give you better performance, and maybe even an edge over the guys who are riding those other bikes. Once you find the sweet spot you will know it. After that, even riding fast, it will be a walk in the park. Just a leisurely stroll. LOL. Stretch | ||
| Diablobrian |
the torque and hp always meet at 5252 rpm because of the equation used to derive hp. (torque x rpms) divided by 5252. You want to keep your bike around the peak hp mark when riding hard. Not flaming you stretchman, trying to help  | ||
| Stretchman |
Ok, but in order to get the max acceleration, don't you want to utilize the torque curve with the torque at it's peak to where the HP comes on? I can't say for certain on Buells, but on the Harley, which is also a BT, the best acceleration isn't always achieved with taking the bike out to the rev limiter. So where exactly is the actual Buell powerband? Or let me rephrase this. Where is the peak torque curve on the motor? (Message edited by stretchman on April 17, 2006) | ||
| Alanshouse |
Reading this forum everyday really makes me homesick. | ||
| Tank_bueller |
I'd say that Dunlop is about done. Mine looked just like you describe, and in less than 100mi I had cord showing. Changed at about 2300 miles. | ||
| Chadhargis |
I have to agree with Windaddiction. The redline is there to let you know where the damage is done, and a rev limiter is there to protect you from it. Revving the engine doesn't hurt it, it's not bad for it, and it's designed to run at those revs or they would lower the redline. In fact, it's more damaging to "lug" the engine than it is to spin it up. I "cruise" with my engine at 4k rpm, and when I'm riding harder, I spend a lot of time up near redline. As was mentioned above, change the oil (it's the life blood of your engine) and make sure you do all the required maintenance. | ||
| Perry |
A bit of engineering review: Horsepower is the total amount of work, defined as moving a certain mass a certain distance. The more horsepower, the more you can accelerate your bike fast.  Torque, in layman's terms, can be thought of as the amount of power per stroke of the engine. So, at the point of maximum torque, you are getting the most power per stroke of the engine. However, at the max point on the horsepower curve you are getting the most TOTAL power out of the engine. Inline 4 bikes usually produce less torque (power per stroke) than a Vtwin, so they are gutless down low, but when they rev so high they are producing the most TOTAL power. A longer stroked engine usually gives a higher torque value, but long strokes are the enemy to high rev capacity, thus are HP limiting. High torque is great for street riding because you can roll on the throttle when down low or mid range and still feel some powerful acceleration without a down-shift. But for racing, the HP curve is generally the ticket because you will run near peak HP (high revs) the entire time. That's why the inline four repli-racers usually have very short strokes - they are optimized for very high RPMs and produce huge horsepower at peak - often at RPMs twice as high as you can even rev your Vtwin.} Semi-trucks and tractors, in contrast, are optimized for extreme torque. Even at low or mid level RPMs they can produce an incredible amount of force needed to pull a large load from a stop without the need to rev the engine and slip the clutch. | ||
| Chadhargis |
I've owned a couple of I4 engines, and while they are fun to ride, I never got to the point where I enjoyed revving the pee out of them. I like the lope of a twin, how it makes power across a broader range, and that it's not screaming reminiscent of an angry bumblebee to get peak power out of it. Of course, with the newer literbikes, saying they are gutless at low revs isn't always accurate. I have ridden a couple of the race replica liter bikes, and they have plenty of power even at 3000rpm. They will wheelie over backward in a heartbeat with just a slight blip of the throttle. I just think the high strung I4 engines are harder to ride. The power hits so hard and the rush to redline is so fast that even a small mistake can hurt you pretty bad. I've always said, give me a bike that hustles from 40-80mph and I'm happy. Anything faster than that is a waste on the street. It's not necessary. I ride with guys who have race replica bikes, and when the road goes straight, they run the pee out of them bragging about how they hit 130 to 150mph. Big deal! A trained monkey can hit 150mph in a straight line. That just doesn't impress me, but it might impress the local police or the ambulance crew that has to scrape you off the pavement should something go wrong at those speeds. | ||
| Firebolt1203 |
I rev the crap out of my XB12 and it likes it :-). As far as dropping gears, there is a lot of back pressure breaking on any kind of twin especially a harley twin where it fires both cylinders on the same power stroke. When dropping gears its best to blip the throttle between each gear. Rev it to a higher RPM than it will be at in the lower gear. Its easier for the tire to slow down the engine than it is for the tire to speed the engine up to the right RPM. Plus it sounds cool and pisses people off cause its loud. The best RPM to shift a buell at is right around 6200 rpm. I've done the math. Find a dyno chart, and find the torque at each rpm in 100rpm increments or so. Multiply the torque by the transmission and final drive ratios, that is your rear wheel torque. Find out what the rpm drop will be between gears and match up the rpms. find the RPM with the least loss in rear wheel torque. I have an excel spread sheet showing this if anyone wants it. I used a pretty generic dyno sheet though but exhaust and stuff doesn't really change where the hp and torque peaks are, it takes internal engine work for that. I was playing around at the drag strip and was able to get a 7.996ET at 91mph in the 1/8th mile and I weigh 205lbs. As far as tires, I just put on a new rear Michelin Pilot Power after 6000 miles! Wheelies out the wazzoooo and it still lasted 6000 till it finally hit the cords. On a dunlop once you see what looks like a black stripe in the center of you're tire get a new one you've eaten through the outer shell and hit the carcass and are very very close to the cords. | ||
| Stretchman |
Check the torque curve of the I4. It will be after the HP has well surpassed it in numbers. Now look at a Buell Dyno. The BT isn't going to make more power after the torque has peaked. It'll make less. Even with more HP. OR so I am told. I guess seat of the pants won't tell you anything. SHift around 5, no matter what the rev limiter is doing. You get there faster. | ||
| Buellfirebolt31 |
Can the V-twin make the same sound as a Jap bike? What advantages does Buell have being a V-twin. I really like how the Jap engines hit the rpms so fast but i love how Buell is all around laid out. That why i got the XB12r, Thanks, Bradley | ||
| Buellfirebolt31 |
anyone? | ||
| Diablobrian |
No, the firing interval, and number of cylinders prevent it. Not to mention rpm differences. Flywheel effect, and the mass of the larger pistons prevent the quick spin-up that you see on the IL4 bikes | ||
| Exitlandrew |
The advantage of it being a v-twin is the tourque. And the sound, and the look, and the nice smooth power curve. And no, I dont think you could get it to make the same sound as a jap bike, unless your talking about a V-Twin jap bike. and they dont sound very good at all. | ||
| Nsbuell |
"they don't sound very good at all" I disagree, a Suzuki TL with a set of Yoshimura pipes sounds quite nice as does an RC-51 with any number of pipes...not Ducati-nice but nice. | ||
| Col_klink |
Perry, Sorry to disagree with you man, especially as I am a noob at this 'site, but "power", whether measured in horses or kilowatts, is defined as the "rate of doing work". Torque is the "ability to do work". "Work" is measured in terms of moving something heavy a specific distance against gravity. Hence foot-pounds etc. Thus, torquey bikes can climb the hill. Of those adequately torquey bikes, the more powerful will climb the hill faster. There's some useful information here: http://www.vettenet.org/torquehp.html IMO, the part of the appeal of the Buell motor is the spread of torque. Keith Code talks about the "$10 of attention". Riding a torquey bike enables a rider to spend his/her concentration on his lines, rather than finding the optimum rev point for the corner exit. But it's also more visceral than that. That honkin' V-twin just FEELS Goooooood! Klink | ||
| Stretchman |
Yeah, what he said. I think...  Stretch |
