| Author |
Message |
    
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 04:41 pm: | 
|
Possible intake seal leak. |
Sparky
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 12:08 am: |
|
Chefa, how long are your trips on average, and how many miles are on the bike? What kind of mileage are you getting? Did you ever run out of gas with it? Do you know the condition of the spark plug tips?
These types of questions can help us determine if there is anything basically wrong with the bike or if the problem is "operator error". For instance, if the bike runs out of gas, the ECM will most likely run rich for a while upon fillup until the EFI resets itself by running at highway speed for x amount of minutes. I'm not sure how many minutes x is but, you get the point. The bike needs to normalize itself by normal riding for a while. If it does not normalize, it stays rich running and this kinda describes your problem, sort of, doesn't it? |
Chefa
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 12:59 pm: |
|
Sparky & Blake, thanks for the response. Sorry about the double postings-must post messages before going to the pub not after.
My rides to work and around town last for 5-15 minutes. Small town-Key West. On weekends I go about 30-50 miles round trip. I have 2,100 miles on bike now. Never run out of gas. I get standard mileage according to the manual and I do not know condition of spark plugs. |
Sparky
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 10:40 am: |
|
A rule of thumb I've always tried to adhere to is to make a trip at least 10 miles. That is about the minimum distance that a bike or car needs to fully warm up. Any significant less than that promotes mufflers rusting, oil dilution from water condensation, spark plugs loading up and carbon buildup in the combustion chambers, etc.
So If you are not doing this daily (10 miles minimum), you owe it to your bike's longevity and your satisfaction to go out on the weekends and put on a (couple) hundred miles. Soon you'll have that wide grin on your face that gets mentioned on this site from time to time. |
Chefa
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 12:43 am: |
|
Makes perfect sense. I'm definitely taking that advice to heart. Thanks |
Shea
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 01:32 am: |
|
I have to agree that a brake cleaner or carb cleaner would be a safer bet. If it over sprays, you don't have to worry about anything but a possible false positive for the actual test.
The rest of the advice here has been great. Just hope I don't run into this situation. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 01:43 pm: |
|
Aeholton (Adrian),
Any update on this issue? |
Aeholton
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 01:55 pm: |
|
Not really. I retarded the timing slightly and the weather got a little cooler. However, the other day I got stuck in a long line of traffic and sat through a couple of light cycles. When I finally continued on my way, I noticed some pinging on acceleration. I just backed off a little until I travelled a couple of miles to give the moving air a chance to cool things down. No pinging after that. I pretty much settled into the fact that it is something I will have to live with. Now that we're back to 80F+ everyday, we'll see if it becomes a big problem. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 02:12 pm: |
|
"the other day I got stuck in a long line of traffic and sat through a couple of light cycles. When I finally continued on my way, I noticed some pinging on acceleration."
That kind of pinging issue is not uncommon. For almost any motor vehicle with a manual transmission in the circumstances you describe, that kind of pinging will happen if the engine is not kept spinning at high enough speed. If you can keep the revs up a little higher during take-off, the pinging should diminish or even cease. |
Aeholton
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 02:25 pm: |
|
One of the reasons I ride a vtwin is so I don't have to keep them "spinning" like an inline 4. My M2 didn't ping like this. I just wonder if it is because it gets so much hotter due to the more boxed in frame of the Ulysses. |
Typeone
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 02:35 pm: |
|
i've tried everything to get rid of ping on my 12 too, as soon as its hot out. its back. every suggestion has been chased... 93 octane, octane boost, single-pump 93 octane, static timing, seals, RPM, breathers out of intake path, TFI to richen things up, TPS resets, etc. nothing changed except when Fall came with cooler temps. THEN i didnt experience ping.
i feel just like you, Aeholton, i got the twin so i wouldn't have to wring its neck 
(Message edited by typeone on April 10, 2006) |
Deltacruiser
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 03:26 pm: |
|
Try a little bit of Rocket Fuel octane boost. I get the little packets at the Harley Dealership. That solved my pinging problem on my X1 in hot weather. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 04:10 pm: |
|
"Like an inline4", "wring its neck"?
<sigh>
Maybe I need to clarify what I meant by "a little." Try to get the revs up another two or three hundred rpm from where they are when you hear significant pinging.
As with most any vehicle having exhaust and intake tract modifications, your bikes may be running leaner down low in open-loop mode EFI territory. Try reinstalling the stock pipe and intake to see if the pinging then diminishes. If it does, then you may have found the reason.
Adrian,
Did your M2's carburetor have any rejetting/tuning performed to the low speed circuit?
(Message edited by blake on April 10, 2006) |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 04:14 pm: |
|
If you try any sort of octane booster, be sure it is not going to harm the O2 sensor or any other EFI system componentry. |
Aeholton
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 04:30 pm: |
|
Try a little bit of Rocket Fuel octane boost. I get the little packets at the Harley Dealership. That solved my pinging problem on my X1 in hot weather.
I'm not interested in paying for octane booster.
Did your M2's carburetor have any rejetting/tuning performed to the low speed circuit?
Yes, my M2 was rejetted when the race kit was installed.
The pinging (when it does occur) usually happens from 2500 through 4000+ rpms. Not just down low. I would understand if I was lugging the engine below 2K or something, but I'm not. Also, it typically doesn't ping in first gear. It usually happens when under more load of a higher gear. |
Typeone
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 04:31 pm: |
|
for my bike... the ping has occurred in stock and modified form. if i'm cruising at ~4200RPM and crack the throttle on a hot day... ping. leaving a stop sign going up an incline, crazy ping.
btw, i never lug the bike, she's barely ever under serious load under ~3500RPM. i noticed the ping (as did another guy) on the very first long ride on this bike. its never vanished except when the Fall weather came around.
its a total bummer 'cause i love the power my Drummer gave me down low but if i crack the throttle down there she goes forward in a hurry but the ping occurs.
Aeholton, didn't mean to hijack your thread, its just that i've been experiencing the same thing ever since the bike was new. |
Aeholton
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 04:36 pm: |
|
No hijack perceived...actually nice to have collaboration. Sorry, it's happening to you too, though. |
Typeone
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 04:46 pm: |
|
this issue with the 12 has been mentioned by quite a few others too. we go through the same exchange but then the thread dies... only to reappear and go through the same exchange
when i had my bike in for this last summer i traveled 2+hrs to a dealership up north during the early morning when of course the temps were quite low. tech couldn't reproduce... drive all the way back home, temps climb to 80+ that afternoon... PING. grrrr. i've had multiple calls with Buell about it too. no resolution. and unfortunately i've messed with my bike enough at this point that mods are frowned upon before we can really get anywhere. but again, its always acted the same, stock or modded. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 08:02 pm: |
|
"Yes, my M2 was rejetted when the race kit was installed."
If the bike is pinging more than just on a lugging start on a hot day, then it has a problem that needs correcting. If the bike is not in stock form, the first thing I'd do is to put it back in stock form or have the fuel mapping modified to stop it from pinging.
Seems pretty simple to me, except that remapping the fuel isn't real simple.
If it were a carbed bike, you could just rejet.
But the new Direct Link deal is supposed to be even better.
Suggest you try that.
Engines ping from too far advanced ignition timing, carboned up combustion chamber (carbon deposits create higher compression and hot spots), or a too lean air/fuel charge.
One or all of the above could be aflicting your engine.
A competent mechanic will get it fixed, at least for the stock configuration.
Did you modify the airbox as soon as you bought the bike? Just trying to be 100% clear on this. |
Aeholton
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 09:28 pm: |
|
My XB12X was stock, until the beginning of March. The only thing done to it at this point is install a Special Ops Tailgunner. But, it hasn't pinged much since installing, as the weather was cooler. I do have a race kit on order. Maybe the richer running race ECM will help the situation, we'll see.
A competent mechanic will get it fixed, at least for the stock configuration.
If you read my post from January 17th, I was essentially told by the service adviser and service manager of Jim's HD/Buell in St. Petersburg that there is no problem. If that is the definition of "competent mechanic", I will continue to figure things out on my own. I will not take the bike there again. My service experience with them is not good (beginning with my 1K service).
I have a dyno run appointment for tomorrow morning will get a look at the air/fuel mixture. I'll report more tomorrow. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 10:09 am: |
|
No, that is not what I would characterize as a competent mechanic. Well he may be competent, just lacking in character.
That dyno report will be very interesting. But be sure that they replicate the conditions that instigate the pinging. A typical full throttle power run may tell you little about the operational scenario that is most relevant. Dyno operators, some of them, have a difficult time grasping this, so stick to your guns, put it in writing even what exactly you want to have done and how.
Good luck! |
Aeholton
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 11:56 am: |
|
Just got back from getting the dyno run. It's about a 45 minute ride up there, so the engine was good and hot. However, it was only 70F w/ 39% humidity. So, naturally it wasn't pinging.
However, as you can see by the A/F graph it is running a little lean in the 3300 to 5500 rpm range. If it was hotter and more humid, this could be an even leaner situation. I'm now anxious to get the race kit and run a comparison.
By the way for those just tuning in, the run below is my 2006 Buell XB12X all stock w/ the exception of the Special Ops Tailgunner pipe.
|
Jim_sb
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 12:23 pm: |
|
Hello Adrian,
Did you do a dyno run with the stock pipe?
Best,
Jim in Santa Barbara |
Aeholton
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 12:46 pm: |
|
Unfortunately, no. Although, I don't think I gained or lost any power with Odie's pipe. It was purchased strictly for the sound. |
Thunderbox
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 12:50 pm: |
|
I will be doing a before and after dyno on the Uly sometime in the next week. I purchased a Drummer and I have to do a before and after cause I wanted to know if it gave me more down low. Got spoiled with the M2 I think. Having said that I know the Uly is a deceptive son of a bee as far as speed goes. I think I'm doing OK and I look at the speedo and hey I'm really speeding. You have to watch that. I think it has to do wuth the perspective because of the height of the bike. |
Thunderbox
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 12:54 pm: |
|
Have any of you guys with the ping problem checked to see if the horn is hitting the flyscreen. I know Dr Greg was complaining about ping and he checked and removed his horn and no ping. What have you got to lose by trying that first. Something must be wrong if the machine pings when it is hot. Can't say mine has ever done that. |
Aeholton
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 01:20 pm: |
|
Not my horn...I checked and actually added another ultra loud 135db low tone horn under the fly screen to compliment the high stock tone. People know when I honk now.  |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 08:00 pm: |
|
I guess you missed my post just prior? Sorry it was too late for your dyno run.
A WOT dyno run is near useless in helping to diagnose your issue, which as I understand it occurs during non WOT scenarios. That A/F plot looks perfectly fine to me. Optimum power is more down near 13 to 13.5 A/F, but a 14:1 A/F is not too lean to cause pinging. |
Aeholton
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 08:47 pm: |
|
I got home and saw your post. Anyway, we'll see what happens with the race kit. As for A/F, I would prefer to see it on the richer side of 13:1 than lean side. Somewhere between 12 and 13 would be ideal for me. |
|
Troubleshooting (Poor Starting/Running/Handling/Ride Issues) »
Archive through February 28, 2007 »
XB12X Pinging
