| Author | Message | ||
     Essthreetee |
Is it something that is fairly easily done??? I have never done it, and since it needs to be done I would like to do it myself. I have the service manual, is there anything I should be aware of, careful of?? Are there any special tools that I need to get before I get started??? From my search on here, I understand I DON'T have to remove the engine, but can simply lower it with a scissor jack... Any and all help/advice is appreciated. I am looking forward to learning (hopefully not the hard way). Jason | ||
| Jimincalif |
Scissor jack is one way. On a tube frame, once the tank, carb and pipes are off, you can lower and raise the engine very precisely with a pair of winch-straps running from the upper frame tubes down to the exhaust pipe mounting brackets. By alternating the straps on each side you not only have vertical control, you can do some side-to-side manipulation too, which can be damned useful. Set up the straps, tighten them up good and remove the upper and forward motor mounts. There's the one bolted to the front head, the one down near the oil filter and the one up top near the carb. It'll ease down onto the straps, then start winching them down. Put a layer of wood down just in case you screw up with the straps or use cheap-a$$ straps that break on you (or more likely, strip the metal at the winch points due to cheap Chinese Walmart-grade metallurgy). Once you've got it most of the way down to the wood, take it out or leave one thin layer in and the lower the motor to that. The winch straps will let you raise and lower the motor at will plus adjust sideways a bit...that latter is killer when you're finishing up and trying to get that post at the front head lined up into the frame near the steering tube. | ||
| Xldevil |
IMO,you need a torque wrench and I would recommend a good piston ring compressor and to small pieces of wood, to give the piston a flat base during cylinder installation. You don't have to remove the engine.It's all straight forward.I did it several times.No problems. Ralph (Message edited by xldevil on April 03, 2006) | ||
| Essthreetee |
OK...I am reading the service manual...it says that I "need to remove the rocker arm covers and internal components before removing cylinder heads"... Do I need to disassemble the heads?? or can I take them off whole, and then put them back on whole??? Seems to me, if I am just replacing gaskets...I should be able to 1. lower motor 2. pull heads 3. pull jugs 4. remove & replace base gasket 5. replace jugs 6. replace head gasket 7. replace heads 8. raise motor 9. smile and be happy am I missing stuff??? I didn't bother including removing the tank, etc... | ||
| Patrickh |
If you are doing both at the same time you would need to lower the motor because you would be detaching too many mounting points. For example, if you are only doing the rear head the pieces are easily removed through the frame with the motor in place. heads can stay assembled. I agree with Ralph, but I am going to add another component, an Inch Pound torque wrench AND a Foot Pound torque wrench. | ||
| Jimincalif |
The valves, valve springs and rocker arms can all stay in place on both heads. Those are the nasty bits to deal with on each head! But in order to get to all four main head bolts on each head you have to take the equivelent to the "valve covers" off...which on an Evolution Sportster motor is a weird "pancake stack" of parts that each have their own layers of hex bolts  . But it's not really that bad. They're hex bolts, so they won't strip. Oh yeah. BIG tip: GET YOURSELF SOME BALL-END SAE HEX WRENCHES!!! It is impossible to overstate the utility of ball-end wrenches for dealing with Buell head issues. They allow you to angle the wrenches around the various frame tubes. Another critical place for 'em is the big hex bolts holding the intake manifold on, that you get to from the left side of the motor. I find that a ball-end wrench spun by an open-end/closed-end wrench of about 1/2" allows you to hook a big vice grips up to the open end and use the closed end to spin the short side of the hex key with the closed end of the wrench. Hmmm...in other words, make a three part tool consisting of big vice grips to wrench to hex key to ball end hex going way the hell down into the intake manifold hex bolt. | ||
| Essthreetee |
I have the Buell Service manual...I also have a Sportster Manual (Haynes) for our other bike...I could use that one, couldn't I??? It is basically a Sportster motor, right??? Thanks again. Jason | ||
| Essthreetee |
OK...here is another question...as I was scouring through the KV I found a topic about pullig the wristpin and removing the jug and piston as one complete unit...thereby eliminating the need for piston ring compressor... Which is better/easier to do??? Re-compress piston and put it in, or pull wrist pin, then reinstall??? Any ideas??? | ||
| Blake |
Do yourself a big favor and obtain the specific service manual for your Buell. Yeah, for a base gasket replacement, you might can get by without it. Ring compressor or wrist pin removal? Probably more personal preference than anything. Which is more difficult, to remove the pin with rings still inside cylinder being careful to not let the piston drift too low and out the spigot, or inserting the piston and rings back into the cylinder using a ring compressor. I've only ever used the ring compressor method, even once via fingernails so I can't tell you based on personal experience. I'd be inclined to try the pin method though. Different is fun for me. | ||
| Pammy |
I don't know how many miles you have on that there motor scooter, but there is a plethora of issues you could be slapped in the face with when you remove the top end. How much are you ready to spend right now to get your bike back on the road? If the gaskets are the only expense you are ready and/or willing to incur, then you might want to hold off for a bit. In a perfect world, you should get exactly what you expect. But it doesn't usually work that way. I feel so negative today.... | ||
| Pammy |
"...is there anything I should be aware of, careful of??" What you should be aware of is all the wear and tear(normal) that has been going on in your motor over the miles. You could possibly need to replace rings and/or pistons. Bore and/or hone the cylinders and at the least have a valve job done. | ||
| Pammy |
You know the old saying "something worth doing..." and all that | ||
| Jimincalif |
Which Buell have you got? The 1997 S1 service manual is available as a free download and is useful across all the carb-equipped tube-frame Buells from the '96 S1 forward most of the time. | ||
| Essthreetee |
I have a 2002 S3T with about 6800 miles...I DO have the service manual...just thought that another might be useful as well... Blake, sounds like the ring compression would be easiest... Pammy, not being a mechanic, how would I know if I need to do anything else??? Bike runs great, occasionally has a little cough, just leaks a little oil (looks like it could be leaking out of the starter also)...I figured I would just change all the necessary gaskets, put it back together, and ride...maybe I figured ignorance is bliss. I don't want more (hp or performance, bike already is better than I am)...just no loss of oil... (Message edited by Essthreetee on April 03, 2006) | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Hope your's doesn't have "scope creep" like mine did last year. Started out as a base gasket replacement. Wound up being a complete top end rebuild including .010" over pistons, cylinder boring, valve seals, relapped valves, all new gaskets, etc. BTW, anyone need a set of stock standard piston rings? I bought them intending on just a hone and a re-ring.... Brad | ||
| Pammy |
"maybe I figured ignorance is bliss." And it most certainly is(at least in my case). The only thing is...once you open up that motor, and see what is happening in there, you will no longer be ignorant.  | ||
| Patrickh |
Essthreetee, When disassembling the head take a look at the grommet where the stator wire comes out of the primary, this is a notorious spot for lubricant seepage. I have never used a piston ring compressor, I just use a big hose clamp, but I will get around to buying one someday. You are also going to need a cut down 5/16th (?) hex key to remove the intake manifold bolts. | ||
| Jimincalif |
You don't need to cut down a hex key if you have ball-end hex keys. Trust me. You get to the "inner ones" (closest to the carb) from the top and angled; ball ends will just barely let you make that turn. | ||
| Lake_bueller |
Speaking from experience.....be VERY careful removing the clip from the wrist pin. I lost mine inside the crankcase. A lot of patience and a strong magnet solved the problem. It still made for a scary moment!!! | ||
| Essthreetee |
I think I decided I would just keep the piston on and compress the rings to get it back in... | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Ess, If you do that, make sure you get the proper type of ring compressor. You will need the 2 piece type not the "ratchet" type. | ||
| Essthreetee |
Would a gasket kit for an 01-03 Sportster be the same kit for an '02 Buell??? | ||
| Oldog |
do not use the cam box gasket! that is buell specific IIRC before I took that motor apart I would be real sure that the oil is from the base gasket area, | ||
| Xldevil |
do not use the cam box gasket! that is buell specific IIRC Regarding the year of construction,you can use Sportster cam box gaskets as well. In 2000,cam box oil routing has been changed for all X-engine cases . The 2000 gasket 25263-90C can retrofit cam covers to 1991, but you dare not use the old style cam gaskets for 2000 up engines.If a 25263-90B gasket is installed on a 2000 style gear-case cover, oil starvation can occur to the top end. This can result in engine damage.  Ralph | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Interesting! I thought that all evolution sprotsters were pretty much the same as tuber Buells. | ||
| Essthreetee |
before I took that motor apart I would be real sure that the oil is from the base gasket area, It is...I can actually SEE a piece of the gasket that has torn and been pushed out from under the cylinder...Sort of looks like I may have a little oil leaking from the Starter also... | ||
| Blake |
Careful, some gaskets have tabs that protrude. If such a tab were scuffed or torn, it may fool you into thinking it is a problem. Suggest washing and drying engine thoroughly, spray all around base gasket area with white powdery substance, like aerosol foot powder or anti-perspirant, or cruex might be more appropriate  . Then start and let the bike run till good and hot. If no oil seepage appears, then take it for a very sedate ride so as to avoid significant wind affects. Stop periodically and check to see if you can identify for certain where the leak is initiating. Might be a good idea to spray powder around the rockerbox covers and around engine cases' seam. Oil can be EXTREMELY tricky on an engine, making its way from parts far removed before appearing to emanate from another area of the engine. Been there, done that. Don't trust your first conclusion. Be 110% certain. I've seen mist from a tranny breather appear as though the engine had a base gasket leak. Ditto for rocker box gasket leak. Same for a crankcase breather oil spewage. I'm tellin' ya bro, it is a tricky business to be certain of where an oil leak may originate. Won't you be surprised if your base gasket leak turns out to be a rocker box cover gasket leak. If you do verify for certain that it indeed is a base gasket leak then please consider the following: Question: What is your crankcase breather configuration? Is it stock, or has it been modified? The reason I ask is that in order for oil to work its way up between the cylinder spigot and engine cases then out past the highly preloaded case to gasket to cylinder seal is for there to exist some significant pressure inside your engine cases. The breather circuit should normally prevent that pressure from becoming problematic. Also, if you do indeed have a base gasket leak, you might want to have a compression and leak-down test performed prior to tearing into the engine. I suggest this because one possibility is that your engine is experiencing excessive blow-by, excessive amounts of combustion gasses escaping past the ring to piston to cylinder wall seal. If you don't have that testing performed before replacing the base gasket, you may well find yourself repeating the same exercise in short order. I guess what I am saying is to please be careful to fix not just a symptom, but the root cause of the problem. I have a little weepage around my base gaskets too and I'm almost certain it is due to inadequate breathing, too much hose of too small diameter and too much restriction in my catch can. Still runs GREAT though. (Message edited by blake on April 06, 2006) | ||
| Essthreetee |
Blake - Thanks for the advice...I have a modified breather set up, I will have to check it and see...now come to think of it the oil has only recently appeared...and I have recently changed the breather set up...hmmmmmm I will do as you suggest with a GOOD wash down, would FLOUR be a good "white powder" to use? I have the next 2 weeks off (Love spring break  ) so I will have time to play around with it... As for my breather...I switched to Banjo Bolts, but they seemed to have a smaller diameter hole than the stock breather bolts...I wondered about it at the time, but then just moved on...could that be causing excess pressure??? Looks like I have some more research to do before I get crazy... Thanks Jason | ||
| Denfromphilly |
I gotta agree with Blake, oil leaks on these motors are never obvious! I anally changed my starter gasket for an oil leak and the leak looks worse than ever. HD motors have always been known to leak oil, one big reason (it seems to me) is that the crankcase volume is not constant, the pistons are on one crank and 45 degrees apart. As they move up they create crankcase vacuum and as they move down they create crankcase pressure. So as you putt along the motor interior is suck, blow, suck, blow about 3500 times a minute. I am assuming this has to be the hardest thing to design a seal to contain. Most seals are like a submarine hatch, designed to contain pressure in one direction. The harder the water pushes on the hatch the tighter it seals. In the case of the HD motor I can't imagine how to design a seal around a revolving shaft that can handle this pressure and not aspirate or weep fluids past the seal on one side or the other. For oil leaks I just wash my bike now every six months whether it needs it or not. I am going to try the powder trick on mine and see if I can figure out what gets wet first. Good Trick Blake! | ||
| Blake |
Jason, I don't imagine that flour would adhere like you'd need it too. Try an aerosol powder deodorant, or foot powder aerosol spray or cruex aerosol spray. You'll need the engine to be clean and dry before spraying it on. The auto parts store might even have a purpose built spray just for this situation. Yes, I think that the change you describe to your breather circuit could very easily instigate the seepage you are seeing. Going from a 5/16" diameter hole to a 1/4" diameter yields a reduction in ducted cross sectional area of 36%, make that 3/16" and the reduction is 64%! That's gotta really hurt flow. | ||
| Oldog |
I thought I had posted this earlier, Thank you Ralph usefull info on the gear case (not cam box) gaskets I will file that away It's in the x1 fsm (no detail though just a warning ) I have the banjo bolts on my bike the rocker and base gaskets are fine, you might have a kinked hose, I totaly agree with Blake on the leakage test the air movement around the jugs could make a leak from else where look like a base gasket leak, especialy the aft jug and the primary wiring groumet mine does seep a little from time to time, rocker box gasket leaks put oil in some Odd places on a x1.... good luck there s3t | ||
| Garrett1998s1 |
Im looking to order my gasket kit from cometic. What thickness of gaskets should I be looking at getting? Thanks Garrett | ||
| Blake |
Is your engine stock Thunderstorm? Do you know its current squish (clearance between piston and cylinder head deck)? | ||
| Blake |
I guess what I am saying is that there are a lot of things to consider if you want to optimize the top end geometry of your engine. Cylinder head gasket thickness comes into play too. Hopefully some of our resident experts will chime in. | ||
| Rocketman |
The simple answer is stick with what you've got, size wise, if you have done no other top-end modifications that will alter the geometry of the top end. Denish's tuning manuals show graphs of a variety of different (head and base) gasket thicknesses available. You can use other formula in the Denish manuals to calculate other relevant information and further understand the science and math involved. If in doubt call Cometic technical. Rocket | ||
| Garrett1998s1 |
Bike is bone stock. Just wanted some advice of guys who have actually worked on these bikes. Thanks for the advice. Garrett | ||
| Pammy |
Cometic makes a top end kit if you like. I beleive the HG is .043 and the BG is .020. The whole kit is about $90. or so. It comes with all the seals and o'rings as well.Usually you get around to using all the gaskets in there so it's good to have. Just the H&B Gaskets are about $35. per set(enough for both cylinders) | ||
| Paulinoz |
The auto parts store might even have a purpose built spray just for this situation. Spotcheck~reg_SKD-S2_Developer Made in USA and would fit your purpose perfectly. Look at Magnaflux site for full info. http://www.magnaflux.com/products/overview.stm | ||
| Tgroghan |
Can you point me to what type of pistion ring compressor to get? What is the "2 piece" one? |
