| Author |
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Midknyte
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 04:48 pm: | 
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Ok, someone will point out that our XB's are already oil cooled, but I'm really expanding on this concept...
What if instead of water-cooled, it were oil cooled? As in, pumping/routing engine oil thru the cylinder jacket instead of [traditionally] water/coolant? The oil cooling radiator we have might need to be a little bigger, but it would negate an additional whole part/system (conventional radiator).
Armchair postulation. Feel free to point out the problems or ineficiencees [SP?] in a nice way.
(Message edited by midknyte on February 23, 2006) |
M1combat
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 04:55 pm: |
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It's already running through the heads and the crank case. I don't know how the surface area compares. I would imagine that the water jackets of a water cooled engine would have us beat there. I would imagine it does a pretty good job already when combined with the air hitting it from the other side. A larger oil cooler is ALWAYS a good thing. If it's really cold out you can always stuff a rag in the scoop. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 12:42 am: |
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well, as long as the tank is full I was saying there would be some sound dampening, I just don't think it amounts to much.
On the other hand, as we have all heard when the fuel level drops the fuel tank acts like a resonating chamber. For proof
I point out the sound of the fuel pump when your fuel level drops to less than a gallon. At least on the pre-05 bikes I've heard.
If there were gains to be had noise wise via the tank I would have expected Buell to install fuel cell foam in the tank from
the factory. It would help muffle more noise, or at least kill resonance, and, as most racers have found out, prevent fuel pump
starvation when hard on the brakes. |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 10:40 am: |
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You know, I was just thinking how quiet my 9S was before I added the race kit.
Just how much of an issue is this NOISE to the EPA? Have they ever ridden on the Interstate next to a semi????????
Cheeeeeeeeeez. |
Wademan
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 11:58 am: |
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TRUTH Air Cooled motors are heavier than most liquid cooled motors of the same cc's. The huge exception here being the Revo. Air cooled motors need cooling fins, and lots of them to cool the engine. Metal is much denser than water and as a consequence air cooled motors are almost always heavier than a liquid cooled lump. Harley does not care about weight they just wanted a motor with some nuts to fill a gap in the customer base. |
Whodom
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 12:13 pm: |
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What if instead of water-cooled, it were oil cooled? As in, pumping/routing engine oil thru the cylinder jacket instead of [traditionally] water/coolant? The oil cooling radiator we have might need to be a little bigger, but it would negate an additional whole part/system (conventional radiator).
Evidently that was tried unsuccessfully on Victory's first-generation motorcycle engines. I've read that many of their engine design engineers came from diesel design backgrounds and thought this would work. It didn't work well, and as a result the engines had to be de-tuned to prevent overheating. The more recent Victories use more conventional air/oil cooling and work well. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 12:15 pm: |
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It's enough of an issue that bike manufacturers run quieter chains rather than more efficient gears for cam drives
in order to pass EPA regulations.
I agree that the way the laws are written seem unfair in regards to different classes of vehicles. That's
the power of lobbyists in action. Democracy the old fashioned way, through donations to campaign funds. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 03:26 pm: |
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Wade,
I don't agree. Water cooling requires added metal too in order to form high pressure passageways. Water cooling requires plumbing, and a water pump and a radiator and yes a good amount of liquid coolant.
I think the XBRR, a 1338cc engined machine that weighs in at near the same weight as its 600cc competition is pretty good evidence against your theory.
Comparing the weight of an XR750 engine and that of a GSXR750 would be a good point of data for consideration.
Compare the weights of an air-cooled 500cc Rotax to its water cooled sister. I'll be surprised if the air-cooled version isn't the lighter of the two. |
Socalbueller
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 10:59 pm: |
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I remember reading in Car and Driver when the 911 went from air to liquid cooled. The liquid cooled engine was lighter than the air one. This includes the total package; ducting, radiators, coolant, oil, etc. |
Wademan
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 09:51 pm: |
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I did only say MOST, there will be a few exceptions. I wish I could dig up some data for you but it is a pretty well established fact. |
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