| Author | Message | ||
     Snackbar64 |
Just wondering which motor you guys think would be more likely to power the next significantly refreshed Buell? It has been said that the V-ROD motor is too large. It also doesn't represent Erik's own philosophy and creativity (liquid cooling). It does seem like a more efficient engine than the XBRR motor. Maybe Erik would design a completely different bike especially for the V-ROD motor? What do you guys think? | ||
| Court |
There will never be a VROD motor in a Buell. | ||
| Stretchman |
Why not? It's a good motor. The bike it's in is really strong. It's winning races. IS there something wrong with the V-rod motor, or any revolution based powerplant that would eliminate it from consideration? | ||
| Brucelee |
The general rap on the VROD motor in a Buell is Size/weight Liquid cooling. If the RR motor can produce 130 HP for the street, I see no need for the VROD motor in any Buell. | ||
| Snackbar64 |
Brucelee, I can barley deal with the heat, as I sit on my bike in traffic on a nice sunny day with the cooling fan on. And my bike only has 92 BHP. The XBRR motor simplified to deliver even 130 BHP would probably be the equivalent of sitting on the Devil's pitchfork.  | ||
| Kowpow225 |
I don't think we'll see either one... Maybe a slightly improved version of the powerplant we've got now is a bit more realistic. I'd love to have the RR motor but it is a RACE engine and not built for street. | ||
| Snackbar64 |
Kawisakis and Suzukis are also race bikes with race bike engines that people ride on the street. Don't think for a minute that as slow as Buells seem compared to those bikes that they are not in direct competition with them. They are marketing these bikes to younger people, and hope to take riders away from the above mentioned. Young people want to go fast. I am content with my bike's performance, but others aren't. They made the XB12 to somewhat keep up with the 600s out there from Japan. Why would Erik build a radical bike like that if he did not see a need to keep pace with the competition? Street Buells just happen to be slower and sometimes the slowest, but they want to be considered when you spend a Saturday afternoon in search of a sportbike. The research and development isn't there yet. | ||
| Court |
>>>>It's a good motor. So is the Ford PowerStroke diesel. They are both where they belong. | ||
| Anonymous |
Stretch, The Revo motor is a very good motor. It is just very bulky and heavy, even before you add the weight of radiator and water. This relegates it to the very specific fit of being a big cruiser motor or maybe touring motor. The XBRR motor is 60 lbs lighter than a V-Rod, and that's before adding the radiator and water, as mentioned before. Erik has said many times that he believes the true meaning of sport bikes is in that they should be athletic, light and nimble. Otherwise, where's the sport? Another quote is that a Huyabusa isn't a sport bike, it's a super performance cruiser in drag. That's why you won't see Huyabusas often on a roadrace track, yet you see singles there. It's not about the power, it's the sport of riding. So, more power could be cool for sure, but not at the expense of the rest of the bike. So, will something new come in the future? Sure, but it won't be rushed, and it'll probably be a surprise, like everything Buell does! | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
What's this mean or maybe touring motor. ??? ... In 2007 or 2008? ... Terry | ||
| Stretchman |
guess I'll wait til 07 to see then. tnx Stretch | ||
| Chizzler |
It's my understanding that it's getting harder and harder for manufacturers to get the air cooled motors to meet emissions regulations. I would think that Buell will hang on to the Sportster lump until then though. Besides, it has character and that goes a long way. | ||
| Buellin_ri |
can barley deal with the heat, as I sit on my bike in traffic on a nice sunny day with the cooling fan on. And my bike only has 92 BHP Have you ever sat in traffic on an R1? You can cook on the frame. It gets that hot, and I do believe the R1 is liquid cooled. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I seem to recall Buell holding an interesting patent that could make use rethink "air cooling" in the first place. | ||
| Voltage_vector |
All my bikes have not been pleasant in stopped traffic on a hot day...that is why they invented lane splitting!  My Ninja got so hot once it melted the fan! I had to get a Muzzy aluminun replacement! One of Odie's seat heat deflectors help alot, and cheep! | ||
| Snackbar64 |
Buellin_ri, I may stand corrected, but I've never ridden a true liter bike, or any other bike models other than Buells. As as result I was led to believe that liquid cooling was far less taxing on the engine then air cooling and limited over heating. | ||
| Mountainbiker90 |
i am of the opinion that liquid cooling is better. i say this b/c (in theory) it enhances a more uniform cooling of the cylinder, allowing for higher compression ratios and longer oil life. all i know is i have a little import waterboxer (cruiser) which is about as strong as my xb9r and puts out a bunch less heat. but, then again, it goes along with what court was saying. i'd just like my powerstroke to have a radiator  (Message edited by mountainbiker90 on February 19, 2006) | ||
| Brucelee |
I had a Ninja 6 that was much hotter to sit on in traffic than my XB9s. Also, with the right side air scoop, my bike's rear fan does not come on at all. | ||
| Diablobrian |
It should also be mentioned when discussing engine efficiency that the Buell still meets 2008+ emissions without even a catalytic converter. Think they might be on to something? | ||
| Kootenay |
"...I was led to believe that liquid cooling was far less taxing on the engine then air cooling and limited over heating." Less taxing, yes--it allows the engine to operate at a more consistent temperature due to the use of a thermostat in the coolant system. An "air cooled" system has no thermostat to control cooling medium temperature, but must instead make do with a medium--air--at ambient temperature, which can vary widely. The downside of liquid cooling is complexity. Many motorcycle water pumps share a common drive shaft with the oil pump--the only thing separating the two fluids in that case is a shaft seal. Keep in mind, too, the coolant system is pressurized. Ultimately, all internal combustion engines produce waste heat, which is wasted to atmosphere--the difference is simply whether that heat is wasted directly to the surrounding air, or transported by a heat-transfer fluid to a heat exchanger (radiator) where it is wasted to the surrounding air. Neither system is necessarily proof against overheating... Since a heat engine (of which internal combustion is just one type among many) is dependent on the heat differential between its operating condition and ambient, the ultimate engine would not have any cooling system at all but would instead be insulated from the surrounding air. Unfortunately, most currently known construction materials would melt under those conditions--where is the ceramic engine concept these days? | ||
| Madduck |
Unless the testing procedures change dramatically in the future, an air cooled motor is significantly easier to get past the current emissions tests. The problem is noise tests. Water cooling quiets the motor by eliminating cooling fins and surrounding the combustion chamber with a water jacket. Remember they are not measuring emissions they are forcing motorcycles to pass a very specific test which is hoped will ensure lower emissions. | ||
| Swampdog225 |
If anyone is interested here's the interesting patent that Erik holds. http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fneta html%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=6&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=buell.AS.&OS=AN/bue ll&RS=AN/buell | ||
| Xbalex |
looks like that is the forced cooling on the xb's | ||
| Roc |
Madducks statement about noise makes me think surrounding the engine with fuel is a pretty big deal for the sound. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Roc, I don't think the fuel in frame does much for sound dampening, after all take a listen to how the fuel pump gets amplified. The water jackets on liquid cooled bikes completely envelope the cylinders, and the changes in density from aluminum to coolant back to aluminum is what deflects and reduces the sound waves. IIRC. | ||
| Blake |
"The water jackets on liquid cooled bikes completely envelope the cylinders" Sure about that? I don't think they do. Pretty sure there are some areas where from cylinder wall to outer surface you'd find solid aluminum. Gotta put walls for the water passages somewhere. Roc, That is interesting. I wonder if the EPA noise test regimen includes any requirements concerning fullness of the fuel tank. | ||
| Diablobrian |
You know what I meant Blake. The frame on our Buells does not have sufficient coverage of the cylinders and heads to effectively dampen sound, except possibly in a small area above and to either side of the bike. But that should be a negligible difference. Besides which the water jackets are completely full and even pressurized when at temp. Then there is the differences in resonance between stamped pieces and cast engine casings which are thicker and have internal bracing to make them more rigid. Someone on badweb will have a meter to test this, unfortunately I don't. This is becoming another interesting technical thread. | ||
| Tpoppa |
The Revo is not the answer for Buell. I wonder what Erik has up his sleeve for the next generation of Buell motors? Liquid cooling? V2? V4?. Liquid cooling might ruffle some feathers at The Company, but there's no denying that liquid cooling allows for a performance gain (at the cost of some additional weight). Consider the KTM LC8 motor. 999cc, Liquid Cooled, V-twin. In the Superduke 990 it produces 120 hp and 75 ft/lbs, pretty impressive for a motor that weight less than 130 lbs. What is the weight of the XB9 & XB12 motors? | ||
| Blake |
Brian, I cannot imagine that a full fuel tank on an XB wouldn't help absorb engine noise. | ||
| Martin |
'I cannot imagine that a full fuel tank on an XB wouldn't help absorb engine noise' No, but it does give you 100 miles to enjoy it! |
