| Author | Message | ||
     Clydeglide |
Aaron, Blake Mobil has spoken. They recommended break-in with conventional oil then switch to Mobil 1. ONLY as a cost effective measure because you may want to change it in the first 1000-1500 miles (which they also recommend). Mobil said there shouldn't be any problems with rings seating if run on Mobil 1 from the beginning and to forget about EOS. Well, our knowledge vault is a little fuller now. Thanks again Clyde | ||
| Aaron |
Clyde: I know there are stories of ring seat failure on synthetic. But then again, there are stories of rings not seating properly on dino juice, too. And there are stories of rings seating fine on synthetic, too. To me, until someone does a controlled study, it's all anecdotal BS. People by their nature tend to draw conclusions from small sample sizes. And sometimes stories get repeated so often they just become accepted as fact. At the same time, keep in mind that some oil manufacturers DO recommend using non-synthetic for break-in, and not just for cost reasons. Red Line comes to mind. Personally, I follow the oil manufacturer's recommendations. And clearly Mobil says their's is fine. they've been saying that for forever, BTW. For the record, I have broken in LOTS of engines on both Mobil 1 and dino juice (mostly V8 race car motors). I can only remember one engine that had one cylinder that failed to seat properly, and that motor started life on dino juice. But that's just another useless anecdotal story. I suspect the machining of the cylinder and the accuracy of the rings themselves has a lot more to do with it than the oil. I mean, if both were perfect, we wouldn't need any "seating" process at all, right? AW | ||
| Blake |
"Until someone does a controlled study, it's all anecdotal BS." Another AW quote for posterity. Aaron, are you confuscious reincarnated with a wrenchish twist or what? Even redline and other racing oriented synthetic oil vendors include a bunch of anecdotal BS in their marketing schemes. You should see the BS I got from an Amsoil rep. It was outright fraud. That's one reason I stick with Mobil-1. I just don't trust the little guys, too much hucksterism is in evidence. Blake (THE Born Skeptic) | ||
| Ralph |
Blake, they only do it because people believe and down right adore anecdotal BS. bighairyjustasskepticalralph | ||
| Clydeglide |
Aaron, Thanks for the help and sparing me the anecdotal BS. LMAO Thanks to you also, Blake. BTW, stopped at the local HD/Buell store at lunch and the sales mgr has a line on V-Twin Mobil 1 at a price I'm willing to pay and of course I asked him to get me a case or 2. Clyde Too slippery my a$$ | ||
| Bomber |
bigfanof6 . . . my M2 seeped just like that . . . . washed right off, and quit doing it altogether at about 2000 miles . . . . although I'm new to the harley/buell world, I've been busting my knuckels for awhile . . .. long enough not to believe in self-healing gaskets, but I have no other explanation for it | ||
| Blake |
Overfill of the tranny can exacerbate seepage at cover seam due to high rate of lube slung into the seam by the chain. May be why Bomber's seepy M2 quit seeping after awhile. You would tend to get more seepage at higher speeds too. | ||
| Bomber |
high speeds? nah, not me . . . . . .. . | ||
| Zx9rmal |
About the long oil filter: even though it holds more oil, doesn't it NOT filter as well as the newer H-D "premium" oil filter. Mal | ||
| Zx9rmal |
Another query for you wise ones. I have 1560 miles on my '01 X1. I changed the oil at 500 miles. I hadn't checked the oil level until 1300 miles (dumb, I know). I had to add almost a quart. I checked it today and needed to add another 12 ounces! What gives. I saa no leakage from the motor, no oil anyplace under the bike from the tranny vent, and the spark plugs look perfect (brownish and clean) so I don't suspect oil consumption. Anyone? Mal | ||
| Blake |
The larger "dyna" filter is supposedly the best dirt trapper HD sells. If you've been riding hard at high rpm and topping it off your carnk-case breathers may be spewing significant amounts of oil vapor into the intake and you may also be getting some blown out the exhaust during engine breaking at high rpm. Try switching to a good synthetic oil and leaving the oil level no higher than midway between the "full" and "fill" marks. | ||
| Bigfanof6 |
Bomber, Thanks for the reply. I took the bike into the dealer today for it's 500 mile service, and they said it was very common, and that once they replaced the gasket with another gasket of the exact same material, it stopped leaking. We'll see. Blake, ditto on the reply. I haven't added any oil to the transmission, and I was still breakin' her in, so nothing over 60 MPH (I SWEAR!). I might have been a little more agressive with the corners on that ride, but that shouldn't really matter. On my last ride, which finally put me over the break in point, I also noticed a little seepage out the shift shaft seal. I pointed this out to the dealer and he said he would take care of it. Thanks for the replys, guys. | ||
| S2no1 |
ZX9rmal, Make sure you are checking the oil level when the bike is warm. Cold it will appear low and you can overfill and blow oil out the vents/overflow. Arvel | ||
| Hogluvr |
Can anyone tell me if the front tie-rod on an S1 is under any kind of load (engine weight, etc.)? I bought one of those HD slip-over-the-oil-filter cooler thingies (I believe this is the technical name for it), and it looks like it's gonna be a tight fit because of the bolt running from the frame to the tie-rod. It looks like I can get some additional clearance simply by turning the bolt around, so the bolt head is facing the motor. I wanted to ask before I tackle it, so I don't end up with the motor in my lap... P.S. Does anyone know if these things actually work?? Mike (with his dumb-question-of-the-week) | ||
| Jmartz |
Hog: I reversed that screw long time ago in order to use a car filter (PH8A in Fram)so as to carry more oil. Gave up on the practice beacause of weeping and the fact that for safety, more oil needs to be at pick up point of the pump, ie. the tank. While I am sure that "cooler" can't hurt. Its functional value is likely minimal. I run a "real" oil cooler (a Jagg) and frankly can't tell its doing anything. Jose | ||
| Al_Lighton |
Mike, Someone over at the ATC site mentioned those slip on "coolers", I wrote the following there: I have no empirical evidence of what I'm about to say, so take it with a grain of salt... These things look like a bad idea to me. In any cooling system, you have a heat source, and an ultimate heat sink. In this case, consider the oil filter as the heat source, the air as the ultimate heat sink. Between the heat source and the heat sink, you have two primary forms of heat transfer: Conduction to the convective boudary, and convection to the ambient. There is some radiation to the ambient at work as well, but ignore that for the moment, it's not relevant to the discussion. The effectiveness of the convective part is a function of the airflow (either natural convection developed or forced if the bike is moving), the wetted area, and the temp difference. From this perspective the design of these units seems OK, it increases wetted area. But the heat that is going to be removed has to get to those fins. And there is the rub. To get from the filter to the fins, it has to be conducted across the interface between the filter and the cooler. And that interface is, at the micro level, largely air, unless you put thermal grease on the joint to fill the gaps. This is even more true if the clamping pressure is low, and it doesn't appear that these could have very high clamping pressures based on their slip-on design. May not seem like a big deal, until you consider that the conductivity of air is abysmally bad (aluminum-90 BTU/hr-ft-F, vs air-.015 BTU/hr-ft-F). Without running the calcs, I would bet that the surface temp of the oil filter is probably lower without the unit mounted than it is with the unit mounted. Or if it is lower with the unit mounted, it isn't by very much. So caveat emptor. Al | ||
| Airborne |
Al, I was also considering one of those finned slip over the oil filter type of coolers but you make a very good point about the air gap between the filter and finned slip on. Thanks for the BTU figures that alone proves your point to me. I'll save my money for a real oil cooler. I'll probably even throw in a thermostat to go along with it. | ||
| Seeeu911 |
Al, whats your input on the spin on cooler that Tat sells ? | ||
| Al_Lighton |
Donn, I dunno. I really don't know much about the subject of oil coolers. I haven't put one on my bike, but the temps here in san diego really don't merit it. I just run synthetic, and with my S1W I've got an aluminum tank that holds more oil. I haven't seen how the ones Tat sells works, but if the oil is in direct contact with the cooler, it's hard to see how it would hurt unless one is not getting their oil hot enough to boil off any condensate. But it does seem like one more thing to spin loose under vibration. I think Big J had one of those spin on him on one of the Palomar rides, not sure wasn't there. Al | ||
| Bushmasta |
I just bought a 2000 S3T and am also new to AZ. I have a question, with as hot as it gets here in AZ in the summer, is a Oil Cooler a necessity? Can the Stock bike run w/ no problems out here in the AZ summer heat or am i asking for trouble? I'm used to liquid cooled bikes so am clueless in this matter. Please send suggestions and comments regarding this matter. Would love to hear other riders in "hot weather areas". If needed suggestions on a oil cooler is appreciated. | ||
| Jasonl |
It's my understanding that oil coolers do some bit of good AT SPEED and only if they have a thermostat controlling when they work. Otherwise they can cool the oil too much all the time and that leads to contaminants building up in the oil. You need a certain amt of heat in there to cook off water and other crap that doesn't lubricate. I've also heard that the fan kit can help in traffic. I can't find the fan kit online but maybe someone here could post a pic of it. I think there was a thread on American Thunderbikes about it as well. | ||
| Jmartz |
Bush: Get a Jagg its probably the beast bolt on. It has a car like lattice and faces the wind cleanly. You can save some weight by not using the jagg oil diverter and connecting it directly to the pump and case with aeroquip fittings. I would not worry about a thermostat. I run mine here in GA at 20F sometimes and you can't touch the oil w/o burning after a 1/2 hour ride. My oil temp was 190 while moving at 90F. If in traffic it would climg to 210. I have not measured it with the cooler but my guess is that at 20F it was never less than 140. water boils a 212 but it has a vapor pressure begining a 32. | ||
| Bueller |
OK, folks- got a 99 X-1 w/5000 miles on it. Lately, it seems like I have to add oil after every ride. Yesterday, did 285 miles and it took 8oz. to get it back to "halfway" up the stick! I don't ride hard, my engine "lives" between 3500-5000 (well, mostly). It's not smoking, and I can't find anywhere that it's leaking. I'm wondering if it could be the seal between the crankcase and the primary? I'm gonna do a compression check and a leak-down test, but I thought I'd check with the collective to see if anyone else has had similar problems . . . thanks, Ed | ||
| Jmartz |
Bue: Perhaps you might consider the valve stem seals. Next time you have the manifold off the intake valve can be seen. The rear of the valve gets gunky and with age deposits can be observed. At 5000 miles there might not be much to see. | ||
| Matty |
Bueller, I too have the disappearing oil syndrome, in fact I think I talked your ear off about it. I'm burning just as much oil on my M2. Anyhoo, I've checked my primary and the fluid in mine has been uncontaminated. I haven't seen smoke and the plugs are clean, so I don't know where it's all going. Lemme know if/when you do your leakdown. | ||
| Eeeeek |
Bueller, You probably don't want to hear this, but I had the same problem with my X1. At 8,000 miles, they pulled the head and put in new rings and pistons on. 6,000 miles later, I still had the same problem and I also had a new noise inside the engine, which turned out to be the connecting rod flopping about a little. Turns out that the connecting pins had grooves worn into them which gave the rods the extra play and sent little shards of metal through the engine. Moral of the story, new flywheel, connecting pins, lifters connecting rods, pistons sleeves, etc. Vik | ||
| Blake |
What type of oil are y'all using? If not a good synthetic, try switching to one. Also try venting crankcase breather to atmosphere. You might be surprised how much oil can get exhausted into your intake by the breather system. | ||
| Matty |
Blake, I'm running the breather lines to the back of my bike. Depending on the temp. and how much oil I actually have in the motor, the amount of puke will vary, but it's no where near enough to affect my oil levels. I'm thinking of giving the synthetic route a shot, but I'm not expecting much. | ||
| Bueller |
Blake- my breathers vent into a "catch can", I've drained it maybe twice in 1,000 miles. Each time, there's been very little "puke", literally just a few drops. However, I haven't drained it after the other day's ride, so . . . haven't checked the primary yet, either- didn't want it to be that seal, but that sounds pretty good right now! thanks for the help- Ed | ||
| Bueller |
If I wind up taking my X-1 to a dealer for diagnosis/repair of my oil problem, does anyone in SoCal have any recommendations of Buell dealers that are good (or to be avoided?). At this point, I'm considering Ventura but would be willing to take it 60 or 80 miles to have it done right (I'm in Long Beach). I wouldn't rule out any independents, either . . . Ed |
