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Buell Forum » Knowledge Vault (tech, parts, apparel, & accessories topics) » Troubleshooting (Poor Starting/Running/Handling/Ride Issues) » Archive through February 28, 2007 » High Idle, popping on low end rpm, slight ticking « Previous Next »

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Flying_lemon
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 10:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
I have an '03 P3. It has only 6k miles on it and has an issue when I begin off the line at a stop light, it sputters and acts as if it is missing spark timing. This only happens when i give the throttle an average twist. If I twist slowly, this doesn't seem to be an issue, at least not as much of one. I have taken it to the Space Coast Harley dealership and to Southern V-twin specialists, neither group of wrenches knew what the issue was. The dealership tried to blame the popping on the hi-flow parts installed, but the popping didn't start until two weeks after the parts were installed. The popping doesn't seem to take place during the first few minutes of the ride, but after it warms up, it certainly is present. The idle is also higher at warm operating temps. I am very confused about the whole thing. Does anyone have any suggestions??? Please help!!!!
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Henrik
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 10:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
Once the bike is properly warmed up, what is the RPM at idle? Maybe the idle needs adjusting?

Not saying this is the what's happening in your case, but in general if you "whack" the throttle open at low RPM, the velocity in the intake tract suffers, which can lead to poor fuel vaporization (?) and stumbling as you describe.

Anything else you can tell us about symptoms, observations etc.

Henrik
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Bomber
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 10:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
Flymon -- the P3 that lives in my motorpool showed the same symptoms -- letting it get fully warmed up and adjusting the idle to something reasonable (no tach, but it was WAY too high) seemed to make it a-ok --

I'd adjust the warm idle first -- following classical t-shooting, it's ez, it's cheap, and it's reversable if it doesn't work
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Flying_lemon
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 12:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
OK, will try the idle adjustment. There is no tach, but I can tune it by ear. Any clue about a slight ticking that comes and goes? Originally, the popping was bad, and I adjusted the timing(retarded) to correct it slightly. I noticed there is a recall for the 73 tooth sprocket for this model, any idea what the recall was causing?
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Bomber
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 01:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
Flyguy -- it's really hard to diagnose sounds over the net -- I've never heard anything resembling a ticking noise out of our P3 -- also, no data on the sprocket -- suggest you post on the Thumper Page -- those guys are aces, and know as much about the P3 platform as the factory, I'm think, or nearly, anyways
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Matty
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 02:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
Sounds like a big bad intake leak.
Replace the rubber manifold coupler.
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Jlnance
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 06:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
I'm with Matty. The only thing that regularly breaks on the P3 is the manifold coupler. Its a small rubber piece that connects the carb to the header. It will crack and let air leak into the manifold, causing the system to run lean. This causes high RPMs, misses, and pops. Its a $7 part.
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Jlnance
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 07:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
Lemon - I just read your profile and see that you already replaced a manifold coupler at 3k miles. So at least you know how to do it.

It sounds like you have modded the intake system. This can yield very short life for the intak couplers. The Buell Pro series of intake was very hard on them. I know some people have replaced them with a short section of hydrolic hose, and are having good results. She is actually selling her leftovers: http://www.turbotime.us/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=1EB0000-1130519024
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Flying_lemon
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 10:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
Thank y'all again for your input! So far I have lowered the idle, replaced the coupler and adjusted the timing back to stock. The pop is still there, it is definitely an exhaust noise though, not popping through the carb. It is also still acting like a miss or hesitation before the pop. Still hearing noise from the head maybe. sounds like valve clatter that a car would produce due to low oil level, but the oil is full. Still confused. Anyone in the 32935 area?
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 02:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
Besides the rubber coupler, does not the Blast also utilize a seal that fits to the cylinder head? If so, that may well be the source of an intake tract leak.

To check for a leak, get it running good and warm; set the engine to a fast idle, around 2,000 rpm or so, and spray contact cleaner, WD-40 or even a fine mist of water all around the intake tract's various junctions between the cylinder head and throttle/carb. If the engine speed changes significantly, you've found an intake tract leak. Replace the offending seal/component as applicable.

You might also want to check/replace your spark plugs.
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Shotgun
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 10:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
Blake, that is spark plug. Singular. Not plural.
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 11:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
D'OH! Hope he knew that and didn't go nuts trying to find that other spark plug! joker

I lose my THUMPER state of mind there for a second and my advice goes all to heck.
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Buellistic
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 09:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
Blake:

That is "OK", as when "i" get a BLAST it will have dual plugs !!!

In BUELLing
LaFayette
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Izzinya
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 11:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
is it popping on deceleration ??

if so it might be a common v-h characteristic

Izzinya
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Flying_lemon
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 08:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
No, the popping is on the acceleration, and it only happens when I accelerate in a normal-fast pace, instead of taking it easy, I am interested in finding out how to test the tps for that thing. Any ideas?
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Jlnance
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 09:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
I dont think the blast has a tps.
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Fullpower
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 07:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
have heard of folks putting the sportster carb on Blast.... advantage- accelerator pump.
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Buellistic
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 10:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
First of all, on a carbuator engine, you do not need(a cage is a different story) a "ACCELERATOR PUMP" if you stay on the cam ... The "ACCELERATOR PUMP" was put on for INEXPERANCED RIDERS ...
"AND" your engine is not going to run correctly until it is at operation temperature by the way !!! Have a 97S3T with 84,101.0 miles as of the last ride ... Took mine off the first time "i" had the carbuator off ...

NOW BUELLERS WHAT DO YOU'LL HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT !!!

In BUELLing
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Buelldyno_guy
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 03:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
A Blast has a TPS, but it is used to control the timing. I have fitted a Blast CV carb with a pump it just take a new float bowl and a few of the old parts from a pumper. drill as need to make them fit takes an hour or so to finish. I ended up going to a 42 Mikuini. The nice thing about this board is that everyone can spout their own stuff and we can all take it or leave it as we desire. It is hard for me to believe that one can ride aggressively on a big bore single and keep it on the cam. Unless you come to the Salt Flats with us. ... Terry
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Buellistic
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 09:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
The fastest single ever made was the 500cc BSA single ... That was in the days before the ACCELERATOR PUMP and the only problem with was to keep them running(BSA-Bastard Stopped Again) ...

In BUELLing
LaFayette
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Road_thing
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 10:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
I don't know, Lafayette, I had an old CR450 that was a lot faster than any Gold Star I ever rode...and that was 20 years ago, the 'crossers have probably just gotten faster, even though I haven't!

rt
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Bomber
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 11:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
I'll throw down for Accel-pumps -- specially for motor/carb combos that are NOT tuned for wonderfulness across gthe rev range - the pump makes it much easier to tune for wonderfulness if your name isn't Jerry BRanch (grin)

pum helps with quick, certainly, but I'm not so sure a pump would affect fast at all . . . . . .

those real gold stars were pipey sons o guns -- wouldn't surprise me if the term "megaphonitis" was coined just for them
as alwayas, appropriate emoticon goes here
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Buellistic
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 12:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
For your information Jerry Branch still has that FASTEST BSA 500cc "SINGLE" !!! Sammy Tanner(AKA the "FLYING FLEA" was the rider ... The street
MODEL had a carb. so big that you could ride beside it and see the intake valve working !!!
The BLAST has more potentual(with out the "PUMP")than the OLD BSA 500cc !!!

In BUELLing
LaFayette
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Bomber
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 04:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
LaFayette -- right on all counts -- I also know from personal experience that whacking the throttle open on a Star at the wrong place in the RPM range would yield nothing much at all --

however, at the right place, BIG BANG indeed ;-}
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Nifercritter
Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 07:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
Thanks, Jlnance!

I've been experiencing popping from my air filter which has progressively gotten worse over the last week or so. After changing my spark plug with no results, I read your suggestion on this thread to check the manifold coupler. After investigating into this, I discovered that my coupler had infact shaken loose. It took me 2 minutes to retighten it and now my baby is thumping happily. YAY!!!

Nifer
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Jlnance
Posted on Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 09:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
Glad I could be of help.
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Flying_lemon
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 08:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)
I ended up putting a digital multimeter on the TPS to see what kind of signl it was sending. It was out of range, and unfortunately, it isn't supposed to be "adjusted." I did, however, manage to rotate it slightly and minimize the poping at the low end of the rpm range. The TPS is a $55 part, and would certainly be better than riding around with the bike popping now and then. Either way, it's not my only bike, c'est la vie.
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