| Author | Message | ||
     Bt_rider |
I currently own an SV1000s ,and have ridden evry big twin from RC51's and TLR's to a 998 ,so i know how a big twin should handle and perform,and am absolutly in love with them because of it .Having owned two ZX6R's i can say i'll NEVER own an I4 agin.I do however want my next big twin to be lighter and quicker handiling(NOT at the expence of stability mind you)and if look at the XB spec sheet it looks like it should be just that.Its seems like all i ever hear though is their ill handiling and twichy,exactly what i don't want .None of what i've heard has come from an actual Buell owner however wich it what brings me hear .I've loved the look of the bike and the design since i first saw the XB ,but don't want to spend 11grand and be dissapointed .So i want to hear from Buell owners have or have ridden other sport bikes to tell me how the XB stacks up.No bragging just honest comparo's ,is the buell evrything it should be or not quite up to it?I like to ride at a VERY "sporting" pace and push the bike a little, is the XB the bike for me ? Also is their a difference in the handiling between the R and the S,the are having a little more forward weight biase. | ||
| Stealthxb |
the Xbs are not gonna keep up with the IL4s in the straights, but if you find a bike that handles better...please let me know. those who have stated that Buells are ill handiling and twichy probably did not take the time to dial in the suspension and put some decent tires on the bike. my Lightning has been everything I have ever wanted in a bike and more! | ||
| Phantom5oh |
My XB12Scg is comfortable and stable no matter what speed I'm going. I always feel like a superhero even if I'm just commuting to and from work. Never feel like I'm not 100% in control and very secure. Rode my buddies RC51 and didn't feel nearly as confident on it, it was pretty fun, but I couldn't wait to get back on my bike. | ||
| Ted |
Dialed in or not, the Xb is very sensitive to input. Probably why alot of them have steering dampers. I understand the XB-Long is a more relaxed ride. As is often advised here, test ride them. | ||
| Fl_billy |
Hi Bt Rider. Welcome to the board. My motorcycling experience is very similar to yours.....my last bike was an 03 SV1000S (the faster copper one of course!) and before that it was a 97 TLS that I put over 18k miles on. Prior to that was a 99 SV650 and a 95 VFR. I have also ridden RC's, TLR's, Honda 929, 01 GIXXER 1K, 99 GIXXER 600, etc. I love my big twins though and with the same caution you seem to have, I bought a very slightly used 04 XB12R and kept it alongside my SV1000S for the better part of 4 months in case it didn't live up to my expectations. My SV was sold in July. My 12R handles like my old SV650 but pulls like my beastly 97 TLS. It pretty much outclasses the SV1K in every respect but top end. Problem is, once the SV got into triple digits, it just felt disconnected, like the front end was waaaaay out there. I never really felt comfortable or confident on that bike. The Buell on the other hand is smaller and lighter and handles better in all respects. The only drawback is that, at triple digits it seems prone to a little bit of wiggle due to wind buffeting. Nothing serious and once I tuck in, it stops completely. By the seat of my pants, my 12R with a D&D, K&N filter, desnorkeled and race ECU, pulls a bit harder than the SV did. Once you get the Buell into some corners, it rails - much better than the SV with it's sloppy, bouncy suspension. I could never get that damned bike dialed in just right, but the Buell is perfect for me with the suspension set up as per the owner's manual for my weight (170 with gear). If you really want to get one without the commitment of $11k, there are plenty of gently used ones out there for around $8-$9k (got mine for $8200). That way if you decide it's not for you, you haven't taken that huge depreciation hit from the new bike and you can probably sell it and get most or all or your money out of it. By the way, are you on the www.sv1000.zyns.com board? That's a great bunch over there, much like this board. Good luck with your decision! Billy (Message edited by fl_billy on December 08, 2005) | ||
| Deuceman |
My wife owns a SV1000s ('05), and I have an XB9R. I recently took her bike through some of the curves that I do on my bike on a regular basis very comfortably. I will only say that I had to stop and collect myself and get the courage to get back on the bike. It was downright scary for me. The XB is much more stable. Granted, it could be the suspension not being set up for me and such, but the bike itself did not feel as solid. I have also ridden inline fours, and there is no comparison in terms of handling between the ones I have ridden and my XB. Buells are the best handling bikes I have ridden. Just my two cents worth. | ||
| Fl_billy |
I forgot to mention a couple of other perks that go along with Buell ownership - the first being the huge wealth of information that comes with this board. Second, no messy chain to clean and lube every couple of weeks. Third, no coolant to leak (happened on my TLS). Fourth, braided brake lines come standard. Fifth, no rear fender (or shovel in the case of the SV) to remove and replace (on the R at least - still the pasta strainer to ditch on the S). Fifth, having something really different on the road that sounds simply sick with an aftermarket exhaust. Sixth, no expensive valve service at 15k miles, or ever for that matter! Hmmm, I'm sure there's more that others will chime in with soon. Oh yeah, my Buell is my daily rider and serves as my commuter, sport/hooligan weapon, errand-runner and cruiser as well! I have put over 6k miles on it since I bought it last March and am still lovin it! Billy | ||
| Chadhargis |
If you haven't read this, you need to. It pretty much sums everything up: http://a1264.g.akamai.net/7/1264/1354/a3055969211e9e/www.buell.com/en_us/news_ev ents/pdf/BikeTop50.pdf Pay no attention to the HP and top speed numbers, they appear to be HORRIBLY wrong. (Message edited by chadhargis on December 08, 2005) | ||
| Ralf |
my two cents: I am a very inexperienced sport bike rider. I read the one (and probably the ONLY one) article where the reviewer said the XBR was almost too responsive to the point of being twitchy. I almost didn't buy one. I looked at several used XB9R, very reasonably priced at less than 6K, and the local dealer had a new XB12R also reasonable at about 9K. Dealer let me demo his XB12, and it was NOT twitchy or scary even for a beginner. I bought a used one, which as someone above said puts you at least on the favorable side of the unfortunate steep depreciation curve on Buells. Quirks with the Buell that I have found in a few weather impaired weeks is the tendency to point the front wheel to the moon in first gear sometimes and in second gear once in a while, apparently at random. Just about the time I think I have figured out how to ride through the tricky spots, hello wheelie. Also, if you want a scary fast bike, keep in mind that an XB12 has roll on power comparable to a 600cc Jap bike but with less top end. try it you'll like it! | ||
| Bt_rider |
Thanks guys,that helps out a lot like i said i've wanted one for a while don't know why they have such a bad rapp,and their beutiful bikes . FI billy thats pretty much my plan to hang on to the SV and see how it goes ,but it sounds like i may be worried about nothing, BTW the first thing i did too my SV was a new rearshock and stiffer fork springs they are terribly under sprung as delivered. One more thing any real difference's between the Sand the R ,i like the S but uf the R handles better or anything i'd go with it. (Message edited by bt_rider on December 08, 2005) | ||
| Blake |
Ted (BT Rider) My take based on first-hand experience is that most of the negative commentary you'll read/hear concerning the handling traits of Buell XB machines stems from the Buell XB's different (from conventional sport bikes) handling traits. The reaction to that different handling is often an unfortunate but somewhat understandable negative/knee-jerk appraisal by uninformed or narrow-minded types. Those who take time to learn and appreciate the differences and advantages that the XB chassis and V-Twin engine provide are much rewarded. While "different" may initially feel like "bad or worse", in reality it may indeed be "good and better". That has been my personal experience and it is shared in part by Don Canet of Cycle World and the hooligans at Motorcycle Online. Don Canet in his testing on the handling course for Cycle World's "Ten Best Street Bikes" found that the XB was indeed worthy of the description of best back road handling motorcycle (paraphrasing). Similarly, the hooligans at www.motorcycle.com found to their amazement that no matter who among their group was on which bike, the XB pulled away from their Yamaha R1 when negotiating their favorite local run of twisty-turnies. Yet some riders remained stubborn in their assertion, as did Don Canet I believe, that they did not like the handling traits of the bike. It handled better, but they didn't like it. Go figure.  So what is so different about the handling and riding experience on a Buell XB that would cause some to report so negatively on (according to BIKE and Performance Bikes magazines) the best cornering motorcycle there is? Following is my analysis of that issue. First, the Buell XB's with their 52 inch wheelbase and aggressive rake/trail are so very much more responsive to steering inputs than any other motorcycle I've ever ridden, including 600cc repli-racers, 750cc Ducatis, and liter class superbike street bikes. Consider steering response. The same steering input that on a typical sport bike gets the bike leaned over smoothly/calmly in preparation for a turn, will on a 52" wheelbase XB so violently roll the bike over that it is beyond disconcerting. It can be frightening. You can literally launch yourself off the bike if you are not familiar with the sharp steering response of the XB's. I've experienced this first hand. I can tell you that my race prepped Buell Cyclone has similar even superior steering response compared to modern repli-racer street bikes. How much more responsive is the steering of a Buell XB? Maybe relating one of my experiences with the steering response of an XB will give you an idea. When I first had the chance to really ride an XB, I was gung-ho and eager to put it through its paces. Without thinking too much, I jumped on the bike and proceeded to use the same aggressive steering input that I had found worked well for both my Cyclone and for modern repli-racer street bikes. Big mistake! The reaction to my aggressive steering input to the XB was so violent it threw my left foot clean off of its perch on the footpeg and left my butt askew hanging partially off the seat! It scared the dickens outa me! I mean SCARED me, bad! If not for the inherent stability of the bike, I might have suffered more than just an unwelcome adrenalin rush. I equate the difference in steering response between a Buell XB and more conventional sport bikes to the difference in going from an old-fashioned front drum brake to a full-on race disk brake setup. The XB's steering response is that much quicker. It is hard to imagine. Thankfully most who test ride an XB for the first time are not so foolish or heavy-handed with their steering. Caution can be a good thing.  The lightning (pun intended ) quick steering response is a good thing, just as modern disk brakes are a good thing; yet each can take some getting used to. Second, the ZERO drivetrain slop is something totally new for conventional sport bike riders. It is a good thing, once you get used to it, but it is different, and different requires adjustment to habits ingrained over years of riding conventionally driven sport bikes. Gone is the brief pause between throttle and rear wheel when getting on or off the throttle. Now it is instantaneous. It's a good thing. But it's different too and for some "different" takes some time to become accustomed to. Third, the low revving American V-Twin plays a big factor. When a rider is more used to the typical IL4 engine emitting a high pitched turbine-like whine, even screaming as engine speed climbs, it can be very difficult for him/her to reconcile that the low, calm (by comparison) thrum of the big Buell V-Twin could possibly be propelling the bike at an aggressive pace through the turns. The big Buell engine just isn't anxious and hurried sounding like an IL4 ripping out eight times the exhaust pulses at twice the engine speed. Even running at the same engine speed as a Buell twin, an IL4 sounds like it is turning twice as fast. Watch a Superbike race, even on TV, and close your eyes. When the bikes go by at a race pace 13K+ rpm, the screaming IL4 liter-bikes sound as if they are tearing a hole through the space-time continuum, while the growling Ducati twins by comparison sound like they are moving at half speed. Thus the mind can be tricked by a slow sounding/revving engine into perceiving that the motorcycle must also be moving less quickly. Interestingly, this phenomenon may also explain the difference in perception versus reality when some riders claim that they feel that other more conventional bikes perform better (negotiate more quickly) through the turns. The converse of the effect mentioned above is true too, and I've experienced it first hand. When I swapped bikes at the track with my CBR600 riding buddy, I initially found it VERY difficult to carry speed into the turns. That darn 600cc IL4 engine screaming like a banshee instilled in me the clear impression that I was moving must faster than was reality. I found myself entering the turns WAY to slowly. In the 15 or so laps that I ran on the CBR600, I never really did get used to the screaming engine. So I suppose the same may be true of folks who climb aboard a Buell for the first time. So all of the above, sharper steering response, zero backlash drivetrain, and the low revving V-Twin combine to provide a very very unconventional sport bike experience, one that for those used to more conventional sport bikes can initially be very disconcerting. It surely must take some significant time in the saddle to become accustomed to the unconventional handling and behavior of a Buell XB. It would undoubtedly take even longer before one more accustomed to conventional sport bikes could begin to truly exploit the handling performance of a Buell XB Lightning or Firebolt. Add the more forward oriented ergonomics, the heavier clutch pull and different front brake feel to the mix of my above comments. All those traits make for a very different sport bike riding/handling experience. Those are my firsthand observations. Additionally, it seems to be consensus that the OEM/stock Dunlop front tire tends to make the XBs want to stand up during trail-braking. Folks here have found relief from that after switching to another front tire brand. Maybe the new Dunlop "Qualifier" front tire will work better on the XBs. It ain't just a corporate slogan is it? ... Good luck, take some long test rides, make up your own mind. You may end up agreeing with Canet. I hope not. Blake (CMRA #731) (Message edited by blake on December 08, 2005) | ||
| Daves |
 Does it look like I'm twitching?  | ||
| Bt_rider |
Dunlop's suck on every thing i've tried them on.and believe me blake i know what your talking about my first few times on the SV after having only ridden my twoi4600's was an eye opening experience,a couple of time'sthe bike truely scarred me to the point of not liking the bike . A big twin just doesn't enter the corner the same way a little i4 does and after i figured out how the bike needed to be ridden i fell in love with it ,and have been trying to ride every twin i could get my hands on since. | ||
| Slaughter |
Bt, I raced BOTH SV650 and the Buell XB9(punched to 1169) From what I've heard about the big SV, you'll actually be able to relate pretty well to them both. Power delivery is easy to get accustomed to and turning-in at speed, you'll find you NEED to hang off the Buell more than you'd think from reading all the "reports" You will find you probably take a little while to sort out the suspension setup. The short wheelbase bike is sensitive to changes. The chain conversions add wheelbase (for a LOT of money) - and you'll want to lower your forks (raise the front end) as much as possible if you are going to be doing turning-in under braking. It can get twitchy with steering inputs with heavy braking (the angles get so steep with the forks compressed) (Message edited by slaughter on December 08, 2005) | ||
| M1combat |
I think it's the rear tire . It's got a flat profile like a 190 tire. I think as you roll onto it the front tire patch moves farther forward than what's "right". That said... The 207's seemed to work "ok" if you hang WAY off the bike. That would get rid of the tendency to stand and the elevated lever effort anyway. Still, the Metzelers and Diablos work better. I hear the Pilots work well too, but I haven't tried them. I think I'll try the Dunlop Qualifiers next. I have a feeling that Buell had Dunlop make those for the XB , just like the new Dunlop on the Ulysses . I wonder what we'll see next year . Anyway ... You know the difference between an IL4 and a Duck 999 or Aprilia RSVR or another high revving V-twin? There's that much difference again going to the Buell, and then you throw in all the neat unconventionalness and it's certainly a different experience. IL4's are clinical. High revving V-twins are fun. Buell V-Twins are VERY fun. You'll certainly find bikes that are faster in a straight line (some of them are a LOT faster). Anyone can twist a throttle though. If that's your thing then the Buell isn't really your bike. My experience was from a CB750F-SS to the XB. The 750F was air cooled, 509lbs and I thought it handled "pretty well". It turned in well, it held a line well, it had some power, it had a NICE sounding Kerker four to one exhaust... The Buell though... A scalpel. Have you ever driven a high end sports car? I'm not talking about price, but one that's just plain known world wide for world class handling. They have that "stuck to the road like they were welded to the chosen line" feeling. The ones that you can tell they handle well when your sitting in the passenger seat traveling in a straight line. Supras, Miatas and Porsches come to my mind. That's what the Buell feels like. Planted. Stable. Quick. Deceptively fast. Take a look at the Bike Magazine article that was posted up there. "Does it look like I'm twitching?" Only when you haven't had enough kool-aid . | ||
| Skully |
With the suspension set up per the manual, it was incredibly stable...  Keith | ||
| Medic_2512 |
I had a 2001 RC51 and it you compare my XB12 to that bike you`ll be very disapointed. I went with the Buell because i think its the best looking bike you can buy. In terms of performance the RC51 is alot faster everywhere, top speed and 1/4 mile. My XB has about 90rwhp and the honda 125. The Buell only has a 5 speed trans and at 85 or 90mph its reving over 4000rpm, alot when the redline is 6800. The Buell doesn`t have the huge aftermarket support that the Honda has. Handling and breaking are both about even. Test ride the Buells first, they are very nice to ride and look great. Just alittle boring with only 90 hp and a 5 speed trans. Corrected mis-stated rev limit. (Message edited by blake on December 11, 2005) | ||
| M1combat |
The handling and braking are about even or you brought them both to about the same levels? The braking should be a little better on the RC due to the longer wheelbase (unless the CG is higher?). The handling should be better on the XB seems how the geometry is more "radical" and it's a good deal lighter. As I said though... If the whole wrist twisting thing is your thing, the Buell might not be your bike . WRT a five speed trans... Most people shift too much with a Buell. That said... Sometimes I try to put it in sixth . as far as running 4K RPM at speed... I don't think the Buell minds . I've run mine at 5800 for an hour at about 112 degree heat through the desert. That was about 12K miles ago... | ||
| Keys |
My take on it.. I had taken a break from motorcycles for 10years. So I came to the xb with a clean slate. I test rode an XB12S low and an Aprilia RSV Mille both on the same day with about 45 minutes on each machine. The xb wasn't twitchy at all but felt like a glove. SO I bought an xb9R. I've found that the fast response of the xb's steering actually conteracts and matches the other unique feature of the XB... its very low center of gravity. I got the sense when I first got the bike that it didn't want to turn in quickly to a turn. Leaning off either a little or a lot makes the bike feel like it is ready to turn but feals as stable as 4 wheels could. I only weigh 140 so maybe my experience is unique but I've read other posts on this board that the XB rewards body english. I've never had a front wheel wobble in any condition or felt even the remote desire for a steering damper. Bumps in the middle of the turn (as long as I've kept my weight in my boots and not in my seat) have never affected my line. VERY stable with good technique. My feeling is that the bike needed its radical geometry to conteract that low center of gravity and the over stability that it gets from that. I love the bike and I have tread wear from edge to edge on both tires! | ||
| Duc_htr |
I can't really give any more than what these guys have said... my riding experience is not what these guys have either... but I have been up against a 954 and r6 through the mountain roads in N.GA and I can say that this bike, well its a twisty king. I feel completely stable throughout the mountains including the corners where small rocks and gravel have been present. I didn't feel the buck that I did from my Honda in those situations. It took a lot of time to get used to the V-twin, 5 speed, and shifting patterns but I must say its the bike I always wished I was riding with my 600. My favorite thing about the bike is the 0 lag time between throttle and rear wheel... and the looks you get at stoplights... some people don't like Buells but I wouldn't sell my buell for any other bike on the market! | ||
| Daves |
My lap times are much faster on the XB12R than on my Mille R as long as it is a technical track | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I can say that my friend and I are both inexperienced riders who bought our bikes about a month ago. As far as I am concerned, we are about the same skill level. We took out bikes into the foothills last weekend for the first time. He has a 'Busa and I have an SX. Now, all I have to say is that thru the twisties I lost his headlight LOTS of times....he would eventually catch back up on the straights (helped by the fact that I topped out at about 60 due to break in issues). I feel if I could have stretched my XBs legs on the straights, he would have not caught me. I believe we were both pushing about the same amount--trying to test our skills without being reckless, so my conclusion is that my XB was handling better than his 'Busa boat. I love my choice so far! | ||
| Nsbuell |
That 'Busa's a great beginner bike I hear.  | ||
| Spatten1 |
The XB is very stable if you get positioned well before your turn, as you are supposed to. What you do not want to do is try to adjust your body significantly while leaned over, then it will feel twitchy, more so than many other bikes. | ||
| Ortegakid |
The bolt reminds me of my tz125 in how quick it turns, maybe not in actual corner speed, but def in transitions,and all is very different once one has real tyres under it say like SUPERCORSAS! Do not hesitate to get one,you'll be hooked for life, like me!  | ||
| Xbolt12 |
I've been riding my xb12r for two years now and recently bought a Duc 749R. What I find most interesting is that while the Duc is definitely more stable at speed, and turns very well, the xb is not that far behind in stability until triple digits (and I'm running stock suspension on the xb vs Ohlins on the Duc). The Duc actually turns in a little easier than the xb (and I have my xb setup fairly quick), but the xb can go anywhere you want mid-turn and the Duc requires more commitment. I would more less give the Duc and the xb a tie in the medium to tight radius corners and that says a lot for Buell. Also the Duc is running forged wheels and Ohlins, so it is it probably one of the most agile bikes. In the end what I really wonder now is how well the xb would handle with Ohlins on it! BTW, I did put a good steering damper on the xb and it aids high speed stability a lot without hurting it at anything other than a walking pace. I did find the lightning a bit twitchy on the freeway compared to my firebolt during a short test ride, so it may be the more forward rider position on the firebolt makes it more stable, but then again it could well have been suspension settings. | ||
| Xbolt12 |
Oh, I almost forgot to add that I never liked the handling of the xb all that much until I changed tires from the stock 207 Dunlops to M1 Metzlers and later Diablo Corsas. The change made trail braking a cinch and if I did the math right, dropped the front 7mm without any other changes when using M1 Metzlers (another reason to get the steering damper). | ||
| Xbolt12 |
"The XB is very stable if you get positioned well before your turn, as you are supposed to. What you do not want to do is try to adjust your body significantly while leaned over, then it will feel twitchy, more so than many other bikes." Well stated! I truly believe that the xb has made me a better rider. When the 749 gets upset during trail braking (yes it does it too!), it's no big deal to me as I have learned how to ride smoother because of the Buell. | ||
| M1combat |
I still don't understand... I've run bumpy sweepers at 120MPH at full throttle with my toe skimming along the ground and I've never felt the need for a damper. Maybe because I weight 200 w/o gear so I help stabilize the bike? Yeah... Proper technique is rewarded well with an XB. Try not to cross up your spine. It needs to be either straight with the angle of the bike, or at a steeper angle. Get off the bike early. of course, throw the bike around with your knees instead of the handlebars. Hold on with the knees. Don't tense up. Don't hold on tight (heck, I sort of try to NOT hold on... just enough to be able to give input). Be the motorcycle . John... Do you use the upper or lower portion of your palm for steering? I'm just curious. Using the upper portion would introduce a little spring into your "control device"... | ||
| Fresnobuell |
That 'Busa's a great beginner bike I hear. We never discussed it, since we were both trying to wipe the smiles off our faces when we got back to the flats. My buddy *may* have been taking it more cautiously cause off the sheer power of the 'Busa bike, while I felt more comfortable going for it on my XB. And he did request that I lead the entire time in the mountains, so I am not sure what that meant....but we had one hell of a great time and if the weather holds up, we are going out again this weekend. |
