| Author | Message | ||
     Eor |
I picked the bike up this evening and spoke with the Buell tech. He personally put 500 miles on my bike and reportedly enjoyed every minute of it. He said he mixed up his riding, both in-town and highway, trying to get a good sampling of engine speeds. He measured the oil consumption at approximately 1 ounce every 100 miles, which is about 50% of what I observed and within reason [I think]. I reviewed the procedure for checking the oil and he said I was doing it correctly. Why I observed so much more consumption than he did remains a mystery. I'll keep an eye on it, but will try not to focus on it as much. He did note that he had to let the bike warm up for at least 30 seconds on cold mornings before taking off or the engine would sputter some. He checked the exhaust servo cable...it was okay. Something that did concern him...they had to reset the static timing for the second time. He said this was rather unusual and hoped it would not be necessary to reset it any more. He wanted to know about it if it starts bogging down in the mid-range again. If I recall correctly, he told me the timing was cam operated and the changes are probably being caused by the cams wearing. I may have garbled that explanation a bit...sorry. They replaced the cam seal. He observed that it was seeping some at the first service and had brought it to my attention then. I had never seen any oil external to the engine, though. Here's the rundown: Replacing the rear tire cost me $239... $164 for the tire and the balance for labor. The oil change cost me $42. The luggage was $900 [10% new bike purchase discount applied] Installation of the luggage was $105 There was no charge for replacing the cam seal or resetting the static timing. The luggage is awesome....appears to be of high quality and with significant capacity. Since it was dark and raining when I got home, I'll take and post some detail photos of it tomorrow. | ||
| Thesmaz |
Eor, I have really enjoying reading your post and checkin out all of your great pics! Makes me wish that my Uly was here NOW! After it arrives (next spring - ordered through Military Sales office here in Belgium) I plan on doing the same thing as you, going for nice rides and taking pics anywhere I can. I'll have to follow your advice and stop as soon as I see something interesting to setup for a photo shoot. Of course I'll be posting the pics here! Thanks again for the great reports! Steve | ||
| Jlnance |
He measured the oil consumption at approximately 1 ounce every 100 miles, which is about 50% of what I observed and within reason [I think]. ... Why I observed so much more consumption than he did remains a mystery. I'll keep an eye on it, but will try not to focus on it as much. I haven't been following this thread closely, so I don't know when you measured. On my Blast, the oil consumption went down significantly as I put miles on the bike. Perhaps you're seeing the same thing? | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Eor, I've got about 42,000 miles on my 97 Electraglide and it used oil when I first purchased it new. I went to Mobil 1 Synthetic 15W50 at 5000 miles and since then the oil use got less and less as the miles added accumulated. Now it doesn't seem to use any at all. Hang in there and don't fret, I'm sure it will only get better with age, just like fine wine. My Uly is ordered and supposed to be in around the end of Nov. Looking forward to it. By the way, why don't you save yourself some money by changing your own oil. | ||
| Eor |
I probably will change my own oil in the future. I don't now because: I had a bad experience with a dealer "balking" on a good faith [barely out of] warranty repair on a sludged Dodge engine...the fact that I had used a local oil change shop for some of the changes instead of the dealership was provided as a rationalization for costing me ALLOT of money. I typically don't keep bikes very long. I consider it a selling point to be able to provide receipts showing a dealer has performed all maintenance and repairs on a bike. It seems to have helped in a number of sales. The Uly looks like a keeper at this point and changing the oil appears simple enough, but I'll probably continue to have the dealer do it until the warranty has expired...if I keep it that long. I'm already wondering what the follow up will be in the next two models years. I have a suspicion that the frame changes in the Uly and SS versions indicate a new powerplant is coming.... | ||
| Eor |
In The Bag It took about nine weeks to get the bags. So far I'm very pleased with their appearance and apparent quality. In a word...these bags are smokin!  Here's a 360 view of the installed bags...     Nice color match with the magnesium engine case...  You have to use the key to open the bags. Four are supplied.  With the triple tail vertical, the top case cannot be opened fully, but it can be opened enough to insert and remove a full face helmet.   Lot's of room and nice straps in the side cases....  Removing the bags is VERY simple and quick...  It took LESS THAN ONE MINUTE to remove all the bags from the bike, and I had never done it before.  The mounting hardware isn't particularly attractive, but doesn't seem any more so than the hardware I saw this weekend on KTM's and such at the Fall Colors Tour. I believe most of them had Gobi's.   Re-attaching the bags also took less than one minute. They do pick up some vibration at idle and rattle a little. I haven't yet had an opportunity to "test drive" them. Fall colors are in full swing here now and the temps are supposed to be the 70's. I think I'll go for a ride. (Message edited by eor on November 01, 2005) | ||
| Dave |
Eor ... make sure you lock those mounts with the key DAve | ||
| Eor |
Yes...I can see how someone might think that the bags were secure when they really weren't. Thanks for the warning, though. | ||
| Eor |
I'm On Suspension and... Shaking My Head In Disbelief The Great Oil Mystery...Solved? I took the Uly out this afternoon for a test run with the new luggage. I put about 150 miles on the bike, most of which was on the freeway at 75-80 mph. It was somewhat windy this afternoon, so it was a good test of how the bike would handle with the luggage. I got pushed around a bit by a substantial headwind on the outbound leg but had a pretty calm go of it returning. I couldn't detect any substantial weirdness as a result of having the bags on. However, when I got off the freeway and hit The Pig Trail, I observed some strange handling behavior. The bike was not planted firmly in the curves at all. When I stopped to take a break, I increased the rear pre load a few clicks but it didn't seem to help any...and may have made it handle even more squirrelly. The front end appeared to be diving more than usual. I didn't get a figure on how much the mounting hardware and empty bags weigh, but apparently it is enough that the suspension settings should be revisited. The settings I had chosen were probably marginal for my weight and gear but it had been working well. I believe the extra weight and its rearward orientation made the previous settings inadequate. You will hear this many times from Buell owners...suspension settings on the XB bikes are extremely critical and small changes make a huge difference in how the bikes handle. In a [perhaps?] related matter...I was decelerating [not applying brakes] on a downhill approach to a curve with a very light touch on the bars when I felt the handlebar start to wobble. At first I thought it was due to a section of uneven pavement, but from some experimentation I was able to recreate the phenomenon consistently. It is most noticeable when going downhill and decelerating from 50-60 mph. I can just detect it with a light touch on the bars, but releasing my grip [just barely] from the bars results in a pretty scary shake. I guess any shaking of a bike's front end is scary...think tank slapper. I had a similar problem with my first Buell under hard braking and sold it before I learned the likely cause... worn tire and/or steering head bearing out of spec. Inspecting and re-torquing the steering head bearing is something a prudent Buell owner will do on a regular basis. I was going to request that it be done at the 5000 mile service. I've been periodically relaxing my grip on the bars when decelerating downhill, looking for this but have never felt a hint of it until today. Certain "activities" while riding have been associated with the bearing getting out of spec prematurely. I don't engage in such activities. Not all the miles on this bike are mine. I cannot help but be a little suspicious... The front tire is inflated properly and shows no signs of cupping or scalloping. It appears to have 2000 miles or so left on it, in fact. I have adjusted the suspension to compensate for the additional weight of the luggage and the mounts. I'll try it tomorrow and see what happens. If the headshake appears, I'll probably have to return it to the dealer. Checking and re torquing the bearing is not that difficult, but I do not have a maintenance manual for the specific procedure, nor a bike lift to safely get the front end off the ground. With one exception, the engine ran more smoothly today than ever.... I did a 5th gear roll on from 70 mph and heard the engine pinging. I have no idea what grade of fuel the dealership put in my bike. I ran the tank out today and filled with the usual 91 octane. I'll do some more roll ons tomorrow to see if it returns. I did have to reset the warm engine idle speed speed...it was running 100-200 RPMS high. I MAY have an explanation for the oil consumption issue. For the first time since bringing the Uly home, there was room enough in the garage to check the oil on a true level surface. The driveway where I usually check it isn't level but I have been trying to position the bike across a dip at the end to mimic the necessary level surface for checking the oil level. The oil was at the FULL mark after 150 miles of riding. It was full when it left the dealership. I threw a 1X4 under the sidestand to simulate the angle it probably sits at when I usually check it and it appeared to be 1-2 ounces off FULL. Either the bike has stopped using oil or I have been misreading the level and overfilling it all along..... ooops. I'll do some more testing tomorrow. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Love the bags. Great find on the oil level and I'll bet you are right about over filling it all this time. Let us know. | ||
| Eor |
Let's review a few things to keep it in perspective: I have an obsessive/compulsive personality, and that may be the most important thing to bear in mind here. The oil consumption issue turned out NOT to be an issue, after all. I've ridden the bike 200 miles since returning from the dealer and have added no oil. When I checked the oil with the bike in the old location I thought was fairly level, it shows a couple of ounces down. When I checked in the garage, it was full. Either the rings are now seated or I have been overfilling it all along. I'll continue to check it per the manual's recommendations, but I'm not worried about it anymore. The pinging: I tried several 5th gear roll ons this morning and did not hear any pinging. I bet the guy who rode my bike filled the tank with a lower grade fuel. I always use the highest octane available, 91 or 93. No issue. My adjustments to the suspension and getting the new rear scrubbed in brought the handling characteristics of the bike back into line. The headshake is speed related, occurring each and every time the bike decelerates through 40-45 mph, regardless of it being downhill, uphill, or on level pavement. My first inclination was the steering head bearing. I'm now wondering if it might be a tire balance issue. I did check to make sure the balancing weights were still in place. Was it there before the tech rode my bike and the bags were installed? I don't think so, but I'm not sure. Other than the headshake, the only other issue that concerns me is the bogging down in the midrange that has prompted the two static timing adjustments. The cam seal was replaced but I never saw any evidence it was leaking. Balancing the front tire and/or checking the bearing's torque will take about half the time it will take me to get it to the dealership...that is annoying, but this will be the bike's first trip to the dealership for the primary purpose of addressing something other than regular maintenance or wear items, or installing accessories. ............. I just spoke with a service tech. After I described the symptoms, he agreed that it sounded like the steering head bearing needed to be tightened. He offered to talk me through a temporary fix until I brought it back for the 5K service, but I told him I would rather it be done properly. He said they would fit me in tomorrow whenever I could bring it by. He said they check it at each service, but that he has seen them get "pretty loose" between the scheduled 1K and 5K service. | ||
| Eor |
A Crisis Of Faith I left before sunrise today so that I could have the Ulysses at the dealership before they opened. Sunrise over the Ozarks was stunning this morning with the Fall colors in full display. I explained the situation to the Buell tech and he grabbed a helmet and took off on the bike. After 10 minutes or so he returned and I asked him if he had experienced the headshake. He said, "Yes...It's obnoxious." He took it back to the service bay and I could see him reviewing a service manual. After a few minutes, I saw him leave without the side cases. He returned and then left with no luggage on the bike, and again with all the luggage. During this time, they let me test ride a used 2000 Dyna Superglide Sport and a 2006 Dyna 35th Anniversary Edition. On one of the rides, I met the tech on my bike...it was a little odd. BTW...as a former Superglide owner I was less than overwhelmed with the new Dyna, but thought the Sport model was cool as hell...of course they discontinued it this year. I visited with him and he said the headshake was happening under all situations, with or without the luggage but that the intensity did seem to change depending on the presence of the bags. Bear in mind that the bags were EMPTY during these tests. He told me he was going to check the steering head bearing. After a few minutes, I saw him leave again on the bike. He said the bearing was okay and within spec, but he had loosened and retightened it. He reported it MIGHT have gotten a little better after that but that it was still bad. He asked me how much the bars were moving at the worst...I guessed a few inches either way. He told me they were almost going lock-to-lock on him. "This is weird. I'm calling Buell." Oh boy. I saw him on the phone explaining the situation to someone at Buell. He was on the phone a long time. I went outside and began to ponder what was developing into a more serious issue than I had anticipated. He came outside and said, "This is the first report they have had of instability of a Ulysses." They recommended a few things, most of which he had already tried. He went over my suspension settings and said they were pretty close to where they should be for my weight and riding preference. He said they had recommended installing a new front tire, but he didn't think that was it because my front didn't show signs of unusual wear and had allot of tread left. He installed the new front, test rode it and asked me to try it. He thought it was a little better, but I couldn't detect any difference. He said he was going to call Buell back. He spent most of the afternoon either on hold with Buell or waiting for someone to return his call. He thanked me for my patience. I told him as long as he and Buell were acknowledging that something wasn't right and were working toward a solution, I was going to keep my perspective. I have to admit I was becoming somewhat despondent as the afternoon wore on and it was apparent I was not going to be able to ride this bike this weekend, and the only "adventure" I was going to experience with the Buell any time soon would be that of interacting with their customer service and tech support people. I eventually gave up on there being any further developments today and left for what would be a very long three hour drive home through NW Arkansas rush hour traffic. The tech called me on my cell as I was leaving and said he had heard from someone at Buell and they were going to consult with one of the engineers. It would probably be tomorrow morning before he heard anything. He said he was going to have another tech ride on back as a passenger and see what happened. Volunteers? I began the day under the assumption that my bike would be ready for a weekend of enjoying the Fall colors and unusually warm weather that is forecast. Instead what I thought would be a matter of making a simple adjustment has escalated into an issue involving an Buell engineer. I am now uncertain as to whether this bike and I even have a "future" together and if I am about to get tangled up in some sort of morass with Buell over the situation. The tech assured me that they would "make it right." Time will tell. The fact that this happened to my bike is extremely unfortunate on several levels, the most immediate of which is the personal disappointment, if not actual heartbreak, over my loss of confidence in the bike. On a larger level, I know people are watching this thread, and now its emphasis will not be on the bike, but rather on how Buell addresses this problem. That is NOT where I wanted this to go, but I let the genie "out of the bottle" so to speak when I started this and vowed to be honest about my experiences. I'll follow it through to its resolution, regardless of what that is. Good night. Even Eeyores need a hug. P.S. If anyone from the mothership is reading this, John [the tech] and everyone at Cycle Connection was aware of my concern and disappointment today and was very kind to me. The GM, after noting that I had been there a long time asked me if I had eaten anything, or needed someone to take me to get something to eat. She was not aware that I had trailered the bike up. They all seem to be top notch people and made a difficult situation a little more bearable. | ||
| Blake |
That is disappointing and really bizarre. | ||
| Coolice |
Be patient Eor, it is a machine, and it will be corrected. I have enjoyed your posts and will be picking my Uly up this month to join my 9R in the garage. I'm trading my Road Glide for the Uly and can't wait. Good luck! | ||
| Jim_sb |
Hello Eyeore, Let's keep this in perspective. There have been tens of thousands of miles put on the Ulysses fleet already. Yours is the first such experience that we know of at this time. Hang in there, stay calm. Sounds like your shop is excellent, and Buell has been responding. There must be a reason. A motorcycle doesn't go from handling well to handling poorly without some type of change. Keep us posted. We're all rooting for you. Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Reepicheep |
Sounds like you are getting fantastic service, from both the dealer and the factory. | ||
| Eor |
No, I certainly can't complain about the service I've received from the dealer. It's a little early in the process to evaluate the factory's response. Hopefully some smart folks are discussing this over coffee and cheese  up there. Right now it is a blank page, and it is theirs to write upon. We'll see how they handle this. On a lighter note...while the tech was on hold with the factory and visiting with me, I told him, "I guess I shoudn't have added that lead shot to one side of the handlebars the other day." The look on his face was priceless.   | ||
| Jim_sb |
Hello Eor, Just reading your posts has me wondering... The only things that changed from your 10/31 post and today were: 1. You put on a new rear tire. 2. You put on hard bags. 3. You let a tech ride your bike for 500 miles. You have tried the bike with and without bags and the problem is not resolved. You have put on a new front tire and the problem is not resolved. I would ask the tech point blank if he had performed any wheelies, if so how many and how high? When he indicated he checked suspension settings, did he check front and rear pre-load as well as compression and rebound damping? If both sides aren't set identically some weirdness can occur. Have you double checked fork height in the triple trees? Have they considered replacing the steering head bearing? Very weird. Jim in SB | ||
| Henrik |
All good points Jim. Keeping my fingers crossed for you Eor. Henrik (who is embarrassed to think this, but I can't help but wonder if the tech remembered to loosen the pinch bolts when he torqued the steering head bearings ...) | ||
| Eor |
As of this evening, here are the data points as I understand them... According to the tech, he detects virtually no headshake with the bags removed and on the new front tire, but attaching EMPTY bags induces it. He believes that the headshake was much worse on the old front tire. So it appears that the presence of bags is the trigger mechanism and the condition of the front tire and the weight/ height of the rider are contributory factors. As I was driving home tonight, I began to wonder if removing the windscreen might have an effect? I will call tomorrow and suggest that. He and I rode together this evening, with him on another bike keeping just to my rear and left and watching as I went through several cycles of accelerating/decelerating. When we stopped he reduced the rear preload and we repeated the procedure. It seemed to me that the headshake worsened slightly and the respective speeds at which it became noticeable and cleared up increased. He told me he now has a direct line [no long hold] to the factory and has been talking to two different people there. Apparently, an engineer took a Ulysses out on the test track and attempted to induce the headshake my bike has been experiencing. I believe I understood him to say that a Buell engineer and a field service rep may be coming to personally examine the bike. If that is the case, it appears that Buell is taking this situation very seriously and the dealership is in my corner. I can't ask for more than that, given the current situation. I picked up a 2000 FXDX to help me get through this difficult time...  | ||
| Blake |
Please clarify. Are you saying the bike only suffers the shakes when you take your hands off the bars? What front and rear tire pressure do you run? Do you check tire pressure for cold or warmed up tires? Might the cause be the reduced oil load your Uly is now carrying? Of course! Obviously the diminished hydrodynamic oscilliatory damping capacity in the swingarm/oil reservoir is translating to steering perterbations whereby the corriolis effect at your lattitude is amplifying the tendency of the bifurcated striations in your front tire to gyrate at a frequency near that of the natural frequency of vibration of the forks.  | ||
| Eor |
With a firm grip on the bars, the shake is barely noticeable...feels like you have hit a rough patch of pavement. Less grip = more shake with the worst occurring when your grip has completely been released. The tech will put his hands at his side when testing...I aint that brave and won't get mine more than an inch or two away...that may be why it does it worse for him...my hands may be stopping it before it fully develops. I always check tire pressures before a ride [cold]. I am assuming the tech has been doing the same. The obvious answer is...Don't take your hands of the bars. And the person at Buell did advise the tech to pass that onto me. That being said...I noticed this during the course of riding normally the first time I had the bike out with the bags attached. I did not have to do anything extraordinary to be able to detect it, although we are now doing some non typical things to demonstrate it. The tech is of the opinion that it shouldn't be doing this at all. Whether it is a real safety issue... I don't know. If it never gets worse and only occurs in a specific window of speeds, I might be able to accept it as an idiosyncrasy of the bike. But honestly...I'm scared of it right now. I don't know under what, if any, additional operating conditions or loads might trigger this and whether it could be as violent as the tech has experienced in his test runs. | ||
| Az_m2 |
EOR . . . I'm experiencing headshake on my Uly, very similar to what you are describing here. I did not notice it before I mounted my hardbags, but it happens now regardless of whether or not the bags are on the bike. I haven't tried any fixes at this point because my bike is down due to my stupidity (I'm waiting on a part). I planned to have the steering head bearings tightened to spec before I got fired up about it. | ||
| Eor |
I hate to hear that Az. Perhaps yours is related to the steering head bearing? I sure thought mine was...and thought that I would be in and out of the dealership in less than an hour. I sincerely hope that something unique is happening on my bike and this is NOT a widespread issue coming to light. It might be a good idea to share this with your dealer, if you haven't already. The folks at Buell may need some additional data points and they aren't as likely to receive them if they don't make their way through the standard chain of command, so to speak. | ||
| Mikej |
I might have missed this point, but does your bike have a throttle lock of some sort on it to hold the throttle steady when the hands are removed? I've had bikes that wobble a bit under deceleration. I'm also curious about the replaceable breakaway portion of the steering head assembly and if those bolts are correctly tight. | ||
| Eor |
No throttle lock. As to the other...I don't know. The tech told me he loosened and re- tightened bolts associated with the triple tree. I have to assume he checked the ones you are referring to. He just called, in fact. He reported that Buell had contacted him this morning with a couple of things to try, and that it appears that someone from Buell is coming down and bringing a new wheel and tire. He told me they had instructed him to make sure I understood that they "stood behind their products" and would get this resolved ASAP. I suggested to the tech that he add removing the windscreen to his list of things to try. He said that was a good idea, and simple enough to try. | ||
| Sparky |
It's gotta be something simple but overlooked. Perhaps the tech could check the oil level in the forks to verify that they are the same level? If one level is higher, it would have more resistance to being compressed (think air spring). That I think would impart some kind of imbalance between the fork legs when the front end gets loaded while decelerating, thus contributing to front end wobble. Is this plausable? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Last time I heard about something like that happening, was when a $75,000 OCC chopper blew out some sort of $3000 adjustable air ride rear shock. Oh yeah, and the thing blew during filming for national television. Sounds like they are taking things pretty freaking seriously to me. | ||
| Eor |
Not knowing any better, I asked the tech if something in the front suspension might be unsymmetrical...and I mentioned fork oil levels as a possibility, along with a malfunction of the preload and compression valves that made the settings appear to be symmetrical when they actually weren't. He seemed to think that if that was the case, the headshake would be present in more than one specific speed range. I'm certain people waaay smarter than me have gone over these and other possibilities with him. Ironically, the tech was whining to me before this came to light about having the "Maytag Repairman Syndrome"... Harleys and Buells have become so reliable that he rarely got to do anything beyond installing accessories and repairing wreck damage. | ||
| Brotherbuell |
Eor, In the spirit of brainstorming...I'm wondering if there is an aerodynamic instability set up between the high front fender and the bags at speed. I have had the bags on my bike since I picked it up but I swapped out the front fender for a Lighting fender at the same time that I installed the bags. I have never experienced the head shake problem. It's an easy experiment if all else fails. There have been earlier posts of this " Uly wobble" issue. |
