| Author | Message | ||
     Oldog |
I'm having fits with the front brakes on my X1 had them drag badly, (discolored the rotor today) pulled pads and caliper cleaned out the break dust, with break clean after pressing the pistons onto the caliper, re assembled and pumped up brakes, lever feels odd like its out too far, and the front break is "touchy" now. I plan on a rebuild, and new dot 4 fluid front, pads had plenty of meat, discolored rotor concerns me ( dark blue at center to white metal at edge. Thoughts? | ||
| Buellistic |
Oldog: You are old enough to know to change the brake fluid once a year ... If you do not the caliper pistons will size up ... Then you have to take the calipers apart to fix the PREVENTIVE MAINTANCE PROBLEM !!! In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Henrik |
Pads dragging could be a number of things: -baked-on dirt on the pistons keeping them from retracting fully. Remove the caliper from the brake disk, push the pistons out some (careful - don't let them pop) and clean thoroughly. Might do it. Otherwise a full caliper rebuild will be necessary. - pressure release hole in the master cylinder could be clogged. Disassemble and rebuild with new seals and such. Make sure all fluid pathways are blown through and thoroughly cleaned. - finally - and maybe silly; I don't know whether your bike came with DOT 4 or DOT 5 fluid?? If it came with DOT 5 and you added DOT 4 (or vise versa) you will have gunk throughout the whole system, and the new lines may have been damaged from the incorrect fluid. I think (please check) that may mostly apply if you go from DOT 5 to DOT 4, but I'm not sure. Hope you find the problem ... and the solution  . Keep us posted. Henrik | ||
| Oldog |
Point! Lafayette, BF not discolored and now [over] due for the FSM 2 year change I will be going through the brake system soon the local guy does not have a front master cylinder rebuild kit, [RR] now the brakes are applied when the lever is just moved, I wonder if the return is blocked can the parts of the Front Master Cylinder can be cleaned and re used? | ||
| Henrik |
I think you probably could re-use parts, but given the seriousness of possible failure, I'd wait for the rebuild kit. But that's just me. Henrik | ||
| Buellistic |
Oldog: "i" have found that brake fluid does not have to be DISCOLORED to be BAD ... EXAMPLE: OVER HEAT IT then it is BAD, but the color is still looking good !!! What works for me is PREVENTIVE MAINTANCE ... "i" change the brake fluid once a year ... Have 84,786.8 miles on my 97 S3T ... NEVER HAD ANY BRAKE PROBLEMS !!! In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Oldog |
Thanks Lafayette any issues of disk dis-coloring? Henrik: they say that it's not available, what I wanted to do was disassemble the Master Cyl and clean / inspect, if corroded replace. I wondered what was used as the external lube where the heel of the lever pushed the plunger in, (you can't use petrol based lubes on any rubber in the system) You may be right about the return action there is little lever movement (Message edited by oldog on October 23, 2005) | ||
| Henrik |
Jim; who did you contact? I know one of our sponsors would get the info right. Seems odd that they wouldn't sell a brake master rebuild kit?? Do you have a parts manual where you could look up part #s for the wearables: seals, O-rings etc.? If the brake applies with very little movement it'd seem like the pressure does not release when the lever is released. Which in turn makes me think that maybe the piston is not retracting or the pressure release hole is clogged. No harm in taking the master cylinder apart to check. If something needs replacing and you can't get replacement parts (still doesn't sound right to me), then you'd have to get a new master anyway. Go for it. As for lubrication; I use mountain bike type lube for almost everything on the bike. These guys absolutely trash their bikes and ride them completely caked in mud. If a lube will stand up to that kind of abuse, then I feel certain it'll work just fine on motorcycle cables and such as well. Most of those lubes are silicone based dry lubes. And now that many mountain bikes have hydraulic brakes, I think the formulation would be safe for rubber parts as well. Henrik | ||
| Buellistic |
Oldog: NO DISC DIS-COLORING, still running original FRONT and REAR ROTORS ... Henrik: Have a 97S3T and the PARTS BOOK does not have a rebuild KIT for either FRONT or REAR brake system ... A GOOD "QUESTION" FOR ME TO ASK HAS ANYONE OUT THERE IN BUELLDOM FOUND WHERE ONE CAN BUY "REBUILT KITS" AS IN "AFTER MARKET" ??? In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Henrik |
PARTS BOOK does not have a rebuild KIT for either FRONT or REAR brake system ... Wow ... not even part numbers for the individual parts? I'd give Daves or Al at American Sport Bike a call and see what they could come up with. Please keep us posted. Henrik | ||
| Blake |
I wouldn't be surprised if the entire master cylinder is not very expensive to replace as a whole. Just guessing though. | ||
| Buellistic |
Blake: Just going to change the MASTER CYLINDER fluid once a year("PREVENTIVE MAINTANINCE" you know) and see just how long they will last ??? In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Oldog |
Henrik: the local dealer, I watched and questioned while the parts book was searched, whats really weird is the FSM shows how to take the MC apart the caliper is Nissin and I have the kit for it with the required DOT 4 fluid, and the proper banjo bolt washers (copper) the MC is $70.00, no lever or switch, My local Guy sold me the rebuild kit for about what American Sport Bike sells the same kit for, I cant figure out why some things are sooo high price and others are not.. While I have the attention of the astute here may I use you as a sounding board? Winter projects for the X1 brake system: Front flush , clean and overhaul front caliper, disassemble clean inspect front MC Rear flush, & clean rear caliper, remove caliper check & lube guide pins, check shoes. IRAN Change oil in front forks (over due) remove steering head inspect bearings clean and re grease. Remove rear wheel check belt and inspect re grease the swing arm bearings ( remind me to FIND the posts about installing zerks for these ) inspect the front pulley for issue on nut.. Engine: I have inspected the Oil pump drive gear saw evidence of tooth wear. replace oil pump drive gear, remove and inspect lifters, (one is making enough noise to be heard over the super trapp) cams and gear chest. replace timing cavity oil seal, (have it apart) have gaskets. replace the exhaust pipe mounting studs,nuts and gaskets( badly corroded ), replace inlet seals head to manifold clean and check Throttle body, & TPS check condition of wiring, at various points for wear and chafing. replace intermitting horn like Lafayette the idea is to see 100k I just keep learning about improvements and fixes like the clutch "spring plate", If I had funds I would do that now with the improved release mech like American Sport Bike sells. the other thing that I find unnerving is some of the "short cuts" that save scads of time, I am a little un familliar with some of the details this will change I hope to start tomorrow and have about a week and a half to finish, Funds are a little short just now, but the parts are mostly in hand, would any of you document this for the board? THANKS ALL: | ||
| Henrik |
Jim; that sounds like a sound and thorough plan to me. If it were me, the time estimate would be greatly under-estimated  I'd add 3 things to the list: - replace both manifold-to-head seal and manifold-to-carb seal - inspect wheel bearings since you have everything apart - pop the cover off the underneath the front pulley and inspect that bearing (5th gear bearing??). It can apparently be done without any further disassembly than the front pulley. Reepicheep did an extensive write up on that bearing. You will AFAIR need to replace the cover with a new one if you check. Also, there are aftermarket lock rings that will prevent the pulley nut from coming loose - maybe something to add to the list. Keep us posted. I'd be very interested in description and pictures of the various tasks. Henrik (Message edited by Henrik on October 24, 2005) | ||
| Blake |
LaFayette, I'm with you. Was thinking of the ancient canine's predicament. I bought one of those big syringe thingies like Henrik suggested so long ago, but mine is specifically made for bleeding/filling brake systems. That works so much better than I ever imagined it would and it is the simplest thing in the world too. | ||
| Oldog |
Henrik: I will not be working in this time frame,(except on the bike)And a few church related projects, I am fortunate that I have access to a garage to work in I hope that it will be enough time to complete the list. I have head to manifold seals TB seal is O.O.S. Will do on the wheel bearings, especialy since I found the final drive belt banjo tight,@#$@34 stump monkies! There are undoubtedly good reasons for dot 4 fluid in the brakes, dot 3 turns brown as it draws water. Thanks for the info on color change I have a hand held vacuum pump, the catch can for bleeding has been lost I will prolly improvise one from a glass jar and metal top a couple of pipe fittings and presto bleeder jar I will round up the last items tomorrow AM Lafayette thanks for your input (I stand shamed for the neglect) Oldog ... (Message edited by oldog on October 25, 2005) | ||
| Buellistic |
BUELLers: "i" hate to keep preaching "PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE", BUT you should replace the SEAL, intake manifold(2 each) PN 26995-86B every 2 years ... WHY: Because some time after 2 years your engine starts sucking too much air and you will be wondering why your engine is running like BUELLschitte ... SAFETY: If you do not safety wire you throttle cables the next best thing is to install the THROTTLE CABLE CLAMP assembly which consists of these BUELLSCHITTE part numbers ... ie: CLAMP PN C0130.L, CLAMP PN C0129.L, and SCREW PN AN0604.2CZ ... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Oldog |
Lafayette: dude on the list to do.. | ||
| Oldog |
All: caliper & MC are off the bike, break fluid was light gold (beer colored) crap caked on the pistons of the caliper, Caliper has been "overhauled", pads are good. MC was disassembled cleaned reassembled, I will flush out break line with clean fluid on reassm new seal washers to go back, Next pad change I will ease the pistons outand clean the edges. I will be posting info on this project in various places | ||
| Henrik |
Let me second lafayette's note on securing the throttle cables. Clamp or safety wire - but please, all tuber riders, just do it. Henrik | ||
| Oldog |
filled and bled the brakes today, bleeder line poped off acouple of times used brake clean to clean up the fluid. filled resivoir 2 times lever seems to be spongy can you trap air at the banjo? I tried vacuum on the hose on the bleeder. thinking that it would help, comments? , on the cables.. the wire or clamp is around the keeper that the sheath ends are clamped into? wire or clamp this to the bracket? | ||
| Henrik |
Jim; here's a recent thread with brake bleeding discussion. It includes my description of how I prefer to bleed brakes. I'm guessing you're referring to throttle cables? I'm not sure exactly how the cables are run on the fuel injected bikes, but on my carbed bike, I looped and tightened (twisted) safety wire around each cable, and secured the other end around the bracket the keepers are welded to. I think the idea with the bracket is that it just clamps around both cables close to the throttle body. That was the cables are kinda locked to each other and will counter act each other is a cable sheath is trying to hop out of it's keeper. I'm not entirely certain on this one though - hopefully someone else will join in. I'd think there would be no harm in safety wiring the clamp to the "keeper holder". Henrik | ||
| Dave |
There was a recall on some FI tubers for that throttle cable keeper/clamp. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/4062/39681.html#POST205388 DAve (Message edited by dave on October 31, 2005) | ||
| Henrik |
I knew someone would chime in with more specific info. Thanks Dave. Henrik | ||
| Buellistic |
Dave: When "i" purchased my 97S3T a "PRODUCT IMPROVEMENT/SAFETY PROGRAM" was started !!! From my DIRT TRACKING DAYS the THROTTLE CABLES(safety wire) got the FIRST SAFTY IMPROVEMENT ... From my ROAD RACING DAYS "i" put a ROLLED PIECE of old tee-shirt and put on the bottom of the right front fork so when the FORK SEAL goes bad the fork fluid does not get on the FRONT ROTOR leaving me without a FRONT BRAKE ... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Oldog |
Thanks Dave, Henrik, & Lafayette I will have to wire the "buckets" to the clamp I tied the clamp to the bracket. I will have to have the bike on the road to check the brake | ||
| Henrik |
I guess in my previous post it'd have been helpful had I actually included the link for the brake bleeding discussion - DOH http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/150739.html Henrik | ||
| Dave |
That amazing Knowledge Vault! ...and links! DAve | ||
| Oldog |
Thanks Henrik: boy oh boy is that a lotta stuff, I had some smaller tube and I bled the front again today. much better feel, like when new.. Oh did I tell you its back together and running Lafayette :keep preaching some of us dogs be as bumb as rocks. I changed the fluid in the rear brake today. If I may lafayette, I bled the MC down to near empty wiped it out refilled it and then bled to new fluid, and bled a little more. ( old was beer colored - new was water clear ) (Message edited by oldog on November 06, 2005) | ||
| Henrik |
Excellent news Jim!! Good for you. Feels great when you've accomplished big tasks like that, don't it? I'm hoping to get some time to do a lot of the same things this winter - Sure thing a few of the bikes are in dire need ... Henrik | ||
| Saszta |
"SAFETY: If you do not safety wire you throttle cables the next best thing is to install the THROTTLE CABLE CLAMP assembly which consists of these BUELLSCHITTE part numbers ... ie: CLAMP PN C0130.L, CLAMP PN C0129.L, and SCREW PN AN0604.2CZ ... " Hey, just read this and I'm wondering what you guys mean by securing the throttle cables. How and for what purpose really. Never heard of that before, but then I'm used to old bikes and carbs and have just picked up my 2003 Lightning recently. Maybe this has something to do with the cable's attachment at the throttle body and the possibility of it coming loose? Haven't taken her apart yet and taken a look..... | ||
| Henrik |
Steve; haven't heard the throttle cables being an issue on the XBs. If you're interested here's the link to what he's talking about: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/4062/39681.html#POST205388 Henrik | ||
| Ftd |
Saw this caliper piston cleaning tip on another site. Brake cleaner with boot laces.  (Message edited by ftd on April 18, 2007) | ||
| Blake |
Darn! My boots are slip-ons.  |
