| Author |
Message |
    
Buffalobolt
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 07:43 am: | 
|
I'm just shy of 35K and I started getting a loud whirring noise, particularly around 2,200 rpm. My dealer didn't have time to pull it apart, but they listened to it. Their suggestion was to check the primary chain adjuster, and to check the torque on the primary output shaft nut.
I came home and checked the KV. From what I have seen, these are the same two things that I found here.
I have pulled the primary cover, and the adjuster looks fine. Which is odd, since I haven't replaced the shoe, and it is barely even scuffed! The mount for the shoe isn't cracked or anything.
So, I locked the primary and put the torque wrench on the ourput shaft nut. At 210 ft-lb the nut had not even started to move! So, I stopped at that point.
So where do I go from here? Should I continue to pull the primary apart and check the bearings behind the clutch? Any other suggestions?
It's two weeks to the BRAG trip in LaVale, MD. It's getting crunch time! |
Dustyjacket
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 09:16 am: |
|
Is the primary chain too loose? |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 10:28 am: |
|
What I am going to suggest would be a long shot to be causing the problem you describe, but not impossible, and it would be relatively easy to do, and would not be wasted time anyway for a bike with 35k miles on it....
So, what about checking your oil pump drive (pinion) gear? Tons of information in the knowledge vault about the issue. I have checked it on a tuber, and it would only add 20 minutes to an oil change (and an extra $2 worth of gaskets) and would do a better oil change anyway (as you would get more old oil out of the system). I am assuming it's not much worse (or is better) on an XB.
We don't have much first hand evidence that the XB's wear the pump like *some* Tubers did, though the part in the 06 XB's is much better then the part in all previous Buells. And 35k miles is getting up there.
To do it, just drop the oil pump and look up into the cam case through the hole where the oil pump went. With a small flashlight and a dental mirror (I actually used a digital camera with a macro mode... I believe the resulting picture is in my profile). Or you can do it old school, and just crawl under there. You can get a decent look at the state of the gear. Bump the starter a couple times so you see both sides of the gear, the wear can be assymetrical.
If you do it, let us know the results, we are trying to track a good inspection interval for this part for the XB's, and don't have any data yet. Even if your part looks perfect that is a good bit of information for the community.
Like I said, I doubt it is your problem, but if you tried all the obvious stuff, it might be a worthwhile inspection anyway. |
Jackbequick
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 11:15 am: |
|
Seems like, at 35K, your adjuster would show more wear than you are seeing. Especially if had been adjusted right. And it might have typically been adjusted up tighter (small amounts) a couple of times or more by now to compensate for wear.
There is an old adjuster and a new improved one, your bike should have come with the latter I think. The old one is easily identified by the --\___/-- shaped metal plate being only about 1/8" (.120"/3mm) thick. The new style plate is about 50% thicker than that. If the cover is still off you can spot that at a glance.
Other noises reported in the past were from detent plate clips falling off (bad shifting came with that) and a detent arm screw backing out and rubbing on the back of the clutch basket.
Jack
Jack |
Buffalobolt
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 12:50 pm: |
|
Thanks for the replies.
The adjuster is of the new style, it's pretty stout. The chain is always checked for tension at each oil change (it shifts better at the tight end of the adjustment specs). It generally only needs a slight adjustment 1-2 times a year. I was guessing that was normal for chain stretch.
I was planning on doing an oil change when this was figured out, so I will look at the pump gear.
On the detent, will I need to pull the clutch basket off to see this? If so, then I am guessing that I will still need to take the sprocket off of the primary shaft to get everything off (Boy is that thing on there!).
Thanks for all of the feedback! |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 01:08 pm: |
|
Please let us know what the gear looked like regardless! Thanks!
Yes, you have to pull both the clutch and rotor cup off together. That nut is danged tight, but nothing a two foot breaker bar and a couple bounces can't fix. That being said, you might be able to peek back there with a dental mirror enough to see if the circlip holding the detente plate is still in place... though I have never tried it.
(This will be the part where your "primary chain locking bar" and at least one socket wrench will shoot off into your pan full of transmission fluid . It's inevitible... even if said pan of oil is hundreds of miles away in a locked bunker... for your own safety, keep the oil pan close to the primary, the further the tool has to travel to reach it, the higher it's initial velocity must be, and somebody could get hurt. I usually start the job by just dropping all my tools into the pan of drained fluid. My craftsman wratchet never clicked so smooth!) |
Jackbequick
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 04:05 pm: |
|
I think Reep's dental mirror trick will work, use that with a flashlight and bounce the beam up behind side and bottom of the basket to get some light.
The primary chain locking bar can be made out of a piece of 1/4" or 5/16" aluminum, needs to be 4" long, and 1 to 1-1/2" wide. Round the ends a little so they sort of match the sprocket teeth.
Jack |
Buffalobolt
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 09:15 pm: |
|
OK, time for another question...
While sitting and looking at the engine sprocket (OK.. taking a time out because I can't get the @#$%! engine sprocket nut to break loose), I noticed something that I didn't notice before. The engine sprocket was worn a fair amount (the teeth on the clutch basket look fine though). This is the original primary chain. Is it possible that the chain/engine sprocket are needing replaced, and that is the noise that I am hearing. I had noticed a couple of weeks ago while adjusting the chain, that it was right at the maximum specs between the loosest and the tightest spots.
I will give the mirror thing a try though, to take a look around. I may have to take the bike to the shop, as I don't have an impact wrench.
Thanks again! |
Jackbequick
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 08:10 am: |
|
THE CLUTCH NUT HAS LEFT HAND THREADS!!
Don't let that locking bar thing intimidate you, I made mine out of a piece of 1/4" +/- fibreglas. It sets between two sprocket teeth (one on each sprocket) at a slight angle, in use the teeth are trying to push the ends of the bar towards each other or compress it.
THE CLUTCH NUT HAS LEFT HAND THREADS!!
Any material that resists bending or flexing will probably work for making a locking bar, ideally it will be made of a material softer softer than the sprocket teeth so it will not damage them. I would not be surprised if a locking bar made from a piece of good hardwood worked.
Did I mention, THE CLUTCH NUT HAS LEFT HAND THREADS!!?
Jack |
Buffalobolt
| | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 08:41 pm: |
|
Well, here is the final verdict on the noise on my bike.
Seeing as how I couldn't figure out the source of the noise, and with the BRAG event in MD coming up I called my dealership to schedule it. They couldn't look at it for 3-4 weeks. So I called up a dealer in PA (New Castle HD/Buell), they said that they could get it right in. They said that they would do anything they could to get her running in time for the ride! Fantastic!
Then came the call. The noise was coming from inside the engine! They would have to pull it, and split the cases. No way would it be ready for the ride!
So... I guess y'all can blame me for the rain! I was cussing all day long on Wednesday, because the weather would have been fantastic for the ride to MD! Sorry!
Here is what they found. The flywheel had shifted (0.006" of runout). They replaced the crank, bearings, and rings. They said that they went completely through it while it was apart. I assume that the oil pump drive gear looked OK, as they didn't replace it, but I forgot to ask.
If your ever in that area and are needing work done, I would recomend them. They seen like a good group of guys. They even helped me load her back into the truck, at quitting time, and in the rain!
So... I had been off her 4 weeks, 5 days, 16 hours....Sorry! (longest I haven't rode her, even through Buffalo winters!)
I started the break in miles yesterday. It was in the low 40's and pouring down rain. I had a smile on the whole time (4 hours)! I even felt sorry for those warm, dry, people passing me in their cages (can't wait to get her back up to speed!)! Everything seemed to be fine.
I had been feeling a vibration at around 4K rpm, but at the time I thought it was just me. Apparently that is what I had been feeling. I will know better when I can take her back up there again.
I had read in here somewhere that others had the bearings go out. But, I don't remember anyone saying anything about flywheel runout. It makes me wonder it that had been checked for the cause of the bearing failure.
Thanks for everyones input! This is a great resource! |
Jackbequick
| | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 09:40 pm: |
|
Ouch! You (and your wallet) have my full sympathy. How many miles were on that engine?
Whoops, never mind! I just spotted it in your original post, 35k.
Jack
(Message edited by jackbequick on October 23, 2005) |
|
Troubleshooting (Poor Starting/Running/Handling/Ride Issues) »
Archive through February 28, 2007 »
Noisy Primary - Any Idea's?