| Author | Message | ||
     Buellkowski |
Tried to start the S3T this morning and all I got was a pained "krrk.." It didn't even turn over. Plenty of juice, but no movement down below. I rode it home from work the previous night without incident. I'm thinking, perhaps the starter pinion isn't retracting; I'll put her in 1st and roll back & forth a bit to loosen it up. Oop, now it's stuck in gear and the only "rolling" I can do with the clutch out is an inch fore & aft. The front sprocket ain't moving. Crap. I guess it's time to take off the primary cover, but then what? In my head, I'd check out the starter pinion for signs of bindage and perhaps remove the starter. After that, I'm not sure what to look for. Any common problems displaying these symptoms? I've got a 10,000 mile tune up scheduled for Sept. 17. I'd much rather ride the bike in to the dealer than haul it. | ||
| Bent_mind |
You might try pulling the spark plugs and see if it will crank. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Don't try to crank the engine. Pull the primary cover off and inspect the primary tensioner shoe first. | ||
| Mikej |
Your S3 is probably fuel injected with the electric fuel pump, so it probably doesn't have a cylinder full of gas, but it is possible so remove the spark plugs and try pushing the bike forward in gear and keep your face away from the possible spray zone. You might also have a broken primary adjuster shoe. Or you might have a loosened crank shaft bolt. Or remotely possibly the dreaded oil pump drive gear failure. Or something else. Go slow. Check the easy to check stuff first. Check your oil level, and make certain your oil filter is still where it was last time you checked it. Then next open up the clutch inspection cover and have a peek into the primary area, no need to take off the whole primary cover - yet. I assume the bike will roll with the clutch in, right? I'll stop here and wait for others to chime in and to give you time to check the stuff out. Start with the easy stuff and go slowly from there. | ||
| Henrik |
It's harder to roll a bike in first gear than in a higher gear. Try a gear or two higher and see if you can roll the bike. That is - if you can change gear at all. Keep us posted. Henrik | ||
| Djkaplan |
If the bike wouldn't turn over and then wouldn't come out of first gear after you engaged it, I wouldn't try rolling it or cranking it without finding out why. The answer lies behind the primary cover regardless of what the problem is. Don't crank it. Don't roll it. Find out what's causing the problem. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I would probably be tempted to give the starter a rap with a block of wood, and wiggle the bike around a little in a vain hope things just "get better", but DJ is probably right. Heck, I am no mechanical genius, and I could go from riding the tuber into the garage to the transmission fully removed and sitting on my workbench in under an hour easy. With the new metal primary cover gaskets, it goes back together nearly as quickly. | ||
| Oldog |
what DJ said!, sounds serious, and a look under the cover wont take much time, trying to ride a possibly seriously compromised bike is a recipie for disaster! If as suggested above the engine has gone hydraulic attempting a start will garantee damage if as I suspect the chain tensioner has gone south the start and roll attempts could cause damage where none exists-yet for any of us to say oh yea its so and so is blind speculation I hope that it's not serious good luck | ||
| Denfromphilly |
Is the bike in first gear? Pull the spark plugs (I can't get my motor to turn over by rolling it in gear with the plugs installed, too much compression). Can you roll it back and forth and turn over the motor without plugs? Does it sound and act normal? If not then pull the shifter off, remove the primary inspection cover, get a dental mirror and flashlight and look at the primary shoe. If it looks intact then I would start to think starter and that requires the primary to be opened anyway. My X1 did something similar, made a KRRRRR sound and I assumed the battery was dead even though it started fine 10 minutes before and the lights worked. I jump started it and then bought a battery. The old battery was 6 years old. Good Luck! | ||
| Djkaplan |
DON'T ROLL THE BIKE. | ||
| Denfromphilly |
Ok Dan of almost 1300 posts and 5 years experience, I pick up a vibe that you feel strongly about something....care to enlighten me and don't yell, I'm sensitive! | ||
| Buellkowski |
Thanks everyone! I'll keep you posted this weekend. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Denis, I don't think you read Buellkowski's post completely before you recommended taking the plugs out and rolling the bike to free up the engine. The bike is also stuck in gear - something is keeping the bike from being shifted into neutral. Cranking the engine or trying to make it turn over by rolling the bike in gear with the plugs out may aggravate what ever is causing the problem. It's better to start making observations at this point, not more physical testing. Could be something simple, could be serious, but you have to find out where you are so you know where to go. Sounds like Matt had the right idea anyway - he knows he's taking the primary cover off. | ||
| Dfbutler |
I just had something like this happen to my S3T. It was jammed in first gear, would shift but would run. It was the beginning of a real horror story, but the initial cause was a piece had broken off the (old style) primary tensioner. Don't know if the chain was loose to begin with or it caused the chain to loosen, but the net of it was the primary had begun to self destruct spewing metal fragments through out the primary and transmission. Up until the moment it would not shift, everything seemed to be fine... | ||
| Buellkowski |
 You're scaring me, DF. Sad thing is, I think inspecting the primary is part of the 10,000 mile service I'm scheduled for. That'll learn me for waiting 500 miles after 10K. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I don't think they take the cover off on the 10K service. They adjust the chain and replace all the fluids. | ||
| Phat_j |
nate you are correct........ but...... if the fluid comes out with excessive frags..... then more inspecting is in order. | ||
| Dfbutler |
When my primary (followed by the transmission) self destructed, I was coming up on my 20K service. I paid the dealer for the 15K and inspecting and adjusting the primary is supposed to be part of every 5K service. Do you really think that a primary chain with 15K miles already on it and properly adjusted would strech enough in less than 5K miles to self destruct? Could it be that the dealer personnel may skimp a little one the labor intensive, not readily apparent items and charge a big price for a fluid change? | ||
| Phat_j |
i never skimp........ i do it the same way every time on every bike.......it dosent take as long to do a 5k service as they will charge you for anyhow... | ||
| Buellkowski |
OK, the cover's off. Everything's completely normal. The fluid was free of chunks and the drain plug magnet had only the tiniest amount of slivers attached. The adjuster shoe is slightly worn but certainly not cracked or damaged. I was able to rotate the engine sprocket a bit and shift into neutral, then everything spun freely.  The starter pinion had stuck in the clutch ring and my earlier attempt to shift into first didn't help free it. So then I'm wondering what's up with the starter. Letting my curiosity get the better of me, I powered up the bike to see what the innards looked like turning over. The starter got stuck in the ring again. I'm just about to read up on removing the starter when the electric gets erratic and quits. Hooking up the battery charger only helps a little. What the ...? OK, so now maybe the battery's puked? As I start to pull it out I realize that both of the terminal screws are loose. No, it can't be that easy... Tightened them up and guess what? Yup, the starter engages strong and disengages just as resolutely. Like MikeJ wrote, check the easy stuff first.  The service manual also indicates that tightening battery cables is performed at 10K miles. Many, many thanks to everyone who participated in this thread! Anything special I ought to know about replacing the cover? I bought a new gasket with the metal inside and was told no sealant was necessary. All the fasteners appear to be Loctited; can I use the red or blue stuff? | ||
| Buellkowski |
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| Buellkowski |
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| Firemanjim |
Is that the old style tensioner?Looks thin enough at this angle,change it if it is ? Look at the support and check for cracks. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Excellent! Is that an old style tensioner, or a new one? They changed sometime in late 2001 I think, the older ones have a thin backplate. Locktite Blue is the stuff, and those metal gaskets are great, no goo needed. | ||
| Henrik |
I can't see in the picture of the primary chain tensioiner if you have the updated version. If not, make sure you replace it. 4 pc. 1/4" bolts with the heads cut off and screwed into the inner primary will help you align the the gasket and primary cover for installation. Just slide it on and start installing the mounting bolts. Henrik | ||
| Sportyeric |
Good that the solution was so easy. That looks to me like the old shoe. (I just took my primary off today.) Replace it now so you don't worry about it breaking later. Henrik's advice on the cut off bolts is good. Or just use thin dowels. (The trick is to hold the gasket in place while you slide the cover on. You need a free hand to lift the chain clear as you close the gap.) | ||
| Oldog |
Buellkowski: I agree with the others above that looks like the old tensioner plate the new one is like 1/4" thick steel its realy realy beefy I am glad to hear that you don't have a horror story on your hands if thats the old tensioner like every one above said change it | ||
| Buellkowski |
Just got back from a test ride. It's all put back together, original shoe 'n all. I honestly didn't know there was an upgrade. I showed this one to the dealer when I picked up my parts and they thought it was fine. I'm glad I posted a pic of it so's you experienced types could tell me otherwise. If it'll last another 10K miles I'll change it out then. >knocks on wood< I used two of the cover bolts to align the gasket. Everything else during installation was a snap. | ||
| Smoke |
i'd plan on changing the tensioner in 2500 mi. sportrans is cheap. tensioner, oil and gasket less than 50 bucks and about 2 hours. plus you can ensure everything is still fine. getting ready for katrina. ride safe | ||
| Whodom |
Dang Smoke, forgot you were in Louisiana. Good luck- that is one BAD storm headed your way. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The new metal gaskets remove the need for the wooden dowel heroics to get the primary back on... and good riddance to THAT! It sits there nicely lined up while you use your other three hands to arrange everything. | ||
| Jackbequick |
I'd say from your photo that you definitely have th old style tensioner. Putting another 10K on that tensioner is risky as a lot of the failures reported here were at less than or around 15K. I just replaced mine, it only had about 3K on it and light wear, less than 1/4 of what your's shows. It did not fail but I didn't want to take the chance. Was your gasket the metal one with a dark almost rubbery covering? That is the new gasket. If they sold you one of the old style thin ones they really should not have done that. I heard the old ones were supposed to be thrown away by dealers when they got the new ones. Jack | ||
| Oldog |
Ski: Ask Reepi about the tensoiner failure mode and results I would not ride the bike another 10k, like jack said above....... | ||
| Oldog |
stay safe Smoke: from Wilmington NC Oldog.... | ||
| Reepicheep |
 Actually, my tensioner failure was pretty harmless. It was the overtightend drive belt that created my really scary moments... |
