| Author | Message | ||
     Indy_bueller |
Court said once in another thread something to the effect that the VROD began life at Buell. Can anyone elaborate on that? | ||
| Kootenay |
I saw an interesting documentary on the development of the V-Rod, and I don't remember any mention of Buell at all...for what it's worth... Seemed, though, that there was a lot of "back and forth" between Willie G. and the engineering department--Mr. Davidson wanted it to look a certain way, and the engineers had to pull a few rabbits out of their hats to make everything fit and work. | ||
| 1313 |
Early in the P4 project (V-Rod to everyone outside H-D), a VR1000 engine was installed in (if memory serves me correctly) a Softail Custom at Buell, kind of as a proof of concept bike. 1313 | ||
| Steve_a |
The VR and the V-Rod projects are almost completely unrelated. The V-Rod was Porsche's design of an engine with similar specifications and configuration as the VR, but intended for series production and with no common components. What became the V-Rod started as a Buell-only project according to Buell CEO Flickinger at the recent homecoming dinner. He was reported to have said that the new engine was ruined for Buell when it became a joint project. I can surmise from conversations with Willie G. that Harley styling had something to do with that; they dictated a lot of the V-Rod's engine design. There was early on a VR installed in a Softail. According to Willie G., it was the example for Harley Styling of what not to do for the V-Rod. | ||
| Whodom |
Hmmm, Court says Erik's been putting in 75 hour weeks at work and he had very little to do with the XB12X. Hmmm..... | ||
| Indy_bueller |
Hmmmm..... 1. Erik is working 75 hour weeks. 2. Little/nothing to do with XB12X. 3. Firebolt didn't get the "stretch" mods that the Lightning did. New 'Bolt for '07? Or mebbe something completely different? Mebbe I'm just wishful thinking? | ||
| Coyote_xb12s |
Was the engine in the HD VR1000 just as big in overall dimension as the VRod motor? Maybe that particular engine could be a good choice for a Firebolt RR model? | ||
| Indy_bueller |
From what I've heard, Buell tried the VROD motor with an XB frame and it didn't work well. I have no idea where you would put the radiator anyway. | ||
| Dave |
Bast P3 VRod P4 DAve | ||
| Fullpower |
repeat after me " the v-rod is an overweight water-cooled pig" | ||
| 1badbuell |
" the v-rod is an overweight water-cooled pig" Sure but the Street Rod version...thats a fun overweight water cooled pig  | ||
| Phillyblast |
Dave, I thought I was the only one that noticed that  | ||
| Psychobueller |
Does anyone know what the VRSC engine weighs, versus the XB12 engine? | ||
| Davegess |
more | ||
| Court |
Lots | ||
| Rocketman |
Not if it were air cooled! Rocket | ||
| Blitzen |
" the v-rod is an overweight water-cooled pig" That handles like a school bus in the corners! If it dosn't slide out from under you that is. | ||
| Buell12hundo |
seen the new lightning long and I think the troy boys might have some room for a new engine like the v rod or a smaller version the frame is big or its the heat thats making me say this (Message edited by buell12hundo on August 13, 2005) | ||
| Davefl |
If I understand correctly the main frame on the Lightning long is the same size as the Lightning not so long frame. It is the swingarm and the subframe that is different. (Message edited by davefl on August 13, 2005) | ||
| Buell12hundo |
big as in wider not longer | ||
| Davefl |
You are right sir, I did not catch that on the long. The big problem with putting in a water cooled engine in an XB is where do you put the radiator. You would still have that problem with a wider frame. | ||
| Davefl |
Oh and It is wider for increased fuel capacity. The inside dimensions should be the same. | ||
| Joele |
I've still got a chubby over the concept of getting a Rotax replacement to the push-rod. | ||
| Glitch |
The big problem with putting in a water cooled engine in an XB is where do you put the radiator. And the plumbing. But the main problem is when you liquid cool a Buell, it's no longer a Buell. Have not you read or asked what Erik thinks of liquid cooling? | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
If I understand correctly the main frame on the Lightning long is the same size as the Lightning not so long frame. It is the swingarm and the subframe that is different. There is a slight length difference as well. Not something you would notice with the bikes sitting side by side, but something you would notice in the tale of the tape. The VROD engine is TOP heavy. The centerline for its weight distribution is higher than the XB engine. To get the same weight balance out of the VROD engine that you have with the XB engine, the bottom of the VROD motor would be about level with the bottom of the stock exhaust canister, then where would the exhaust go? | ||
| Bomber |
I don't think anyone in East Troy thinks badly about water cooling -- or 4 valves per head, or overhead cams, or any other tech, for that matter if, and when, water colling is needed for some reason, it'll appear on buells (along with 4 valves per head, overhead cams, et al) if I'm remembering correctly, the stated performance goals were met with a simpler, lighter mill with a lower parts count, all of which equals $$ that can either be used for other things (zoomier frames, better suspension, ZTL brakes), or NOT added to the MSRP -- sounds like a good plan to me! | ||
| Dave |
So was VROD born on Buell drafting tables? DAve | ||
| Sterfry |
I would expect a V-Rod revolution engine to be heavier than a Buell engine since the transmission is integrated and it's a wet sump. | ||
| Speedy818 |
The problem with a V-Rod/Buell hybrid is that it goes completely against what Buell wants. Buell's all about usable powerband - lots of usable torque, low weight, etc. The V-Rod engine is none of those things. It was a Racing engine that was designed to have a very flat torque curve and thus a linear HP delivery to be flexible on a number of tracks. Long story short - they aren't running the engine for racing no more. Buell has no real reason for emissions to resign themselves to liquid cooling - they're already compliant for 2008. All-in-all - I wouldn't expect any type of V-rod/Buell hybrid anytime soon. | ||
| Midknyte |
But the main problem is when you liquid cool a Buell, it's no longer a Buell. Have not you read or asked what Erik thinks of liquid cooling? Erik's stance has been that water cooling is not necessary. He also recognises that there is a "potential" market for one nonetheless. We might see one if that were ever to become a "profitable" market for one... | ||
| Lightisright |
I say forget the whole 4v heads, OHC stuff. Look at the Chevy V8's versus the Fords. Ford has issues with getting those big headed ohc engines to fit in engine bays (well Mustangs. The Chevy engine is super compact in comparison. Some metric cruisers have water cooled twins but still look big with all the fake cooling fins for (alleged) style. Take a slice of 2 cyl off a vettes LS2. Or how about what Porsche did with the race flat 6 aircooled engines when turbocharged in some later high hp race cars, water cooled heads. That'd take a much smaller rad yet still allow for more compression. Just ramblin. | ||
| Firemanjim |
Andrew,the V-Rod motor has nothing in common with the motor from the VR-1000 --two totally different animals.V-rod is designed for the street.VR-1000 was race only with no thought to EPA emmissons or noise regs,or drivability.If I remember correctly there are no interchangeable parts whatsoever. And when I was at Buell a couple of years back they had a V-Rod as a test mule.It had all kinds of test ports and an exhaust system that said something along the lines of "off road use only".They caned it pretty well on our ride,too.I find that kinda interesting. | ||
| Speedy818 |
Actually Jim, as I have been told, the VRSC engine was based on the VR1000 engine - they're both 60 deg, water cooled, OHV, 4 valve engines - Harley teamed up with Porsche to create the streetable VRSC engine. Saying that the V-Rod motor has nothing in common with the VR1000 is like saying that the XB engine has nothing in common with the Ironhead engine. (Actually, XB vs. Ironhead is even more of a difference than VR1000 vs. VRSC). But anyways my point is that the XB engine wheelies at the drop of a hat - can use all of the down-low power to pull itself around. The VRSC engine really requires you to have the RPM's quite high to pull that hard, just as you would on the track. The XB's are designed for the street. The VRSC's still have too much of the race bike heritage to catch on well with traditional owners. And so, as I put it, as soon as you put a VRSC engine into a "Buell", it no longer is a Buell as we know it. JMHO | ||
| Buellshyter |
I watched a documentary on the V-Rod on Discovery and they claimed the V-Rod motor got it's start from the VR1000 engine. Apparently, they crated one up and shipped it off to Porsche as a starting point. | ||
| Thepup |
Speedy,the Street Rod has 80ftlbs at 7000 RPM,thats not exactly high RPM's.Honda,Aprilla,Suzuki,and Ducati don't seem to do to bad with liquid cooled v-twins.I understand there are advantages the current XB engine has over the Revo,but that goes both ways. |
