| Author | Message | ||
     Rocketman |
Steve it better be otherwise I fear a lynching across the water LOL. So I buy the PB magazine to read the road test on the 910 Brutale. The XB stuff I didn't even know was there until I read on. I'll hopefully have time today to grab a Sept copy of Bike. I'm sure the findings will stand up too so that's great for Buell and great for Buell owners too. Imagine the fistycuffs this will cause in every bikers den throughout the land when the Buell owners turn up on their sharpened steely weapons of choice. Especially so when you feel the passion on the internet. I imagine when I roll up to the coffee bar tonight there'll be Mille and Duc owners scattered about the place with broken limbs! Those Buell owners are tough cookies  My stable needs three bikes. The missing link is a 910 Brutale I fear! Rocket | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
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| Bomber |
DaveG wrote . . . . }How can we argue about something we have not seen?\ er, you DO know where you are, doncha? Rumor has it that the next summer Olympics are coming to Chicago, and the Badweb Argumentation and Chowder Society has been invited to participate in the Debating Demonstration Sport events . . . . | ||
| Brucelee |
This thread is highly amusing! | ||
| Benm2 |
M1, I respectfully disagree with your assessment of other countries creativity. For what its worth, I've worked with engineers from Japan, the UK, Belgium, Mexico, Canada, and South Africa. Never did I notice any trends where innovation was lacking. My experience has been that since the Japanese continue to school us on manufacturing quality (which Deming taught them in the first place) that the "Yeah, but Americans innovate" becomes the canned response. However, the remainder of THAT discussion would take hours in person and requires beer.  Blake, would you be happier if I limit my post to this? }Is the XB the best handling bike? Who the hell knows. If BIKE has arrived at some magic formula that allows it to be calculated, then the reason there are none on the shelves is 'cause Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawasaki have bought all the copies. Regardless of data, its still "feel" based to some degree. Add in race prep & setup, and ALL bets are off. A good suspension setup (NOT STOCK) on any bike MUST improve its handling (Don't know for sure myself, still all stock & not fast nuff to know the diffrence). So, comparing race bikes & lap times is ultimately moot anyway. The XB DOES come stock with some pretty nice hardware, though. Information & ideas, right? If the article is part of the "search for truth, justice, and the American way" then it is truly a magnificent piece of scientific work. The authors can retire on their earnings, and licensing their testing to the MC companies. Ducati, for example, would probably pay millions for the handling formula. Their GP bike on corner exits looks like a mechanical bull. Otherwise, its more feely. Great for Buell that they've achieved press accolades, as you point out. However, the article cannot be sworn upon. | ||
| Thunderboltloon |
Well, I took a Firebolt out for a test ride the other day.I hate it Not because it's bad. In fact, I've never enjoyed an hour on a bike so much. Nope, I hate it because my wife is going to kill me when I explain that I need an XB12R as well as the S3T. Darn that Erik Buell. He's determined to ruin my marriage | ||
| Jon |
Xlcr, Aw C'mon! You gotta take some flak for that tombstone tyrade of yours. | ||
| Monorad |
alright already, can someone post the damn article. i wanna argue too, but its more fun with a little ammo. | ||
| Whodom |
Bike evidently has NO internet presence, apart from a corporate website for the company that publishes it. | ||
| Firemanjim |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "quote: Rocket, for even questioning whether or no a Buell could not come out on top of the test, for even believing that something like could POSSIBLY be true... you are obviously not a Buell fan, you must rain on Buell's parade in light of thier recent accomplishments, you are likley on the payroll of Suzuki, you dont know how to ride well enough to know the difference for yourself, you dont understand all of the advatages that the Buell engineering offers... how am I doing so far?" Sure looked like an attempt at humor to me ,Blake.Sure did not take any offense to it. | ||
| Slaughter |
Since I have not read the article but have seen the scan of the cover - I must post my considered opinion: It don't mean nuthin. Just buy and ride what you wanna buy/ride. Geez. | ||
| Benm2 |
Zactly. Drive on. | ||
| Tramp |
Woould you believe this is the 285th post on this bizarrely overblown thread? | ||
| Midknyte |
Woould you believe this is the 285th post on this bizarrely overblown thread? Yes... | ||
| Tramp |
oh, great and benificent gods of badweb, i beseech thee to put a fork in this thread  .... | ||
| M1combat |
You mean to turn it over so we can cook the other side yes? | ||
| Blake |
Vik, "When did an XB win an FUSA Sportbike race?" Strange how a Buell enthusiast and club racer would forget about a Buell XB9R beating a bunch of 600cc repli-racers in a national level race. But I suspect that you may have had much more important issues occupying your mind at the time, so I can understand how you missed it. Good on you for proper prioritization. But don't let it happen again!  This will be cool, you now have the chance to experience the euphoria that all Buell racing enthusiasts experienced at the time. Prepare yourself, it's really, really great stuff... 
The above is the original press release with some emphasis added by me. ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) Interesting how it supports the original topic of this thread, that the Buell is the best cornering bike, don't you think? "So you want to know how many SV's have won a FUSA supersport race? The same as the number of M2's: Zero. No one has ever run an SV in an FUSA Sportbike race, to the best of my knowledge." So Vic, would that indicate that the Buell XB9R is a more capable or less capable racing platform than a Suzuki SV650 based machine? Did that Buell XB9R racing machine provide a better track experience that day for Eric Wood, or did the GSXR600 do a better job providing a "better racing experience" for Michael Barnes, Larry Peagram, and Scott Greenwood? Correct, Buell Cyclones have not won in FUSA Sportbike (note "Sportbike" not "Supersport" ) either. Touché! OUCH!!! You've slapped me and drawn blood! You realize sir, that this means WAR! My honor has been besmirched. I thus have no recourse but to challenge you to bring your SV to the hallowed pastoral setting of Oak Hill Raceway and face me in fierce two-wheeled combat. The date is Sunday 09/11/05. Be there or be forever shamed.   In rereading your post, the one with a copy of your excellent pro-Buell petition to your racing club, I note the following... XB's handle great. I agree. There are other bikes that, in my opinion, and this is supported by numerous race results, provide a better track and race experience. This is a bit of a welcome change from your initial statement implying that without investing tens of thousands in a Buell XB that it would not be capable of competing well in club racing. I'm not perfectly certain of what you mean by a "better track experience"; I imagine you are implying a deficiency/inferiority in cost versus enjoyment and competitiveness of the machine. I suppose one could imply the same about a Ducati 749 or 999 or any number of other very competent race worthy machines. Not sure racing is a practicality governed sport. Regardless, I strongly disagree with your assertion that the Buell XB machines are poor choices for the track, and I find that your opinion is not supported well by "numerous race results." On the contrary, I'd say that your chosen race results indicate more which rider is better and more familiar with his machine. That is certainly the case in the CMRA. The best riders in the LW classes are committed Suzuki riders and have been for a long time. Did you read about a supposedly systemic problem that newer SVs are seeing in club racing? RRW featured an article talking about the issue not too long ago, something about bottom end failures I think? Having your engine suffer major failure sure doesn't help the enjoyment factor on the track. Still not sure what all this has to do with Buell being the best cornering bike. Congrats again Buell!  | ||
| Jon |
How about a recap? Someone calls out CHop and Vik by name..."Don't show this to Chop or Vik". Kind of like door bell ditch with poop in the bag. Someone WILL answer the door....and they WILL be upset. Urinating on graves (I know you wish you hadn't said it and you've had enough it's clear, just making a point). That obviously was bigger than you wanted it to be. Chop, calling this guy on the phone? Wow. Your choice, but that kind of thing opens up a whole bag of possibilities. I'm all for turning this thing over to cook the other side. I'm not for running and hiding. Let's play ball... | ||
| Blake |
Vic, Would you ponder the following and let me know your honest opinion: What do you think might be different today in the constituency of club racing motorcycles in the LW and formula classes the XB9R that had hit showroom floors in 1998 with the SV650 not coming on the scene until four years later in 2002? Is it of any consequence to that the SV650 had a four year head-start and also enjoyed a massive pre-existing Suzuki presence/support-network in club racing all across America? What if it were Buell that had enjoyed such a strong established presence in club racing, and what if the XB9R had a four year free reign as the clear lone overdog in club racing's LW classes? Blake PS: Don't be shamed, come to OHR. | ||
| Choptop |
Ok Blake, here is some of your own medicine... you poo-poo'd one of my posts because it was a one case scenario... so its my turn.... The Buell win was a one time thing. Have they ever even RUN a Buell again in the class? | ||
| M1combat |
One of these days we all just have to get together and rent Laguna Seca, Sears Point, Lime Rock Park, Watkins Glenn, SOMETHING... No timers... Just fun . Wait... Why don't we all just run the 191? http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.311020,-109.366150&spn=0.518972,0.752117&hl=en Please note the scale... then zoom in... . You'd ride that North bound. Scroll a little to the East and you'll see the South bound route. Oh wait... we can't use that road... sorry... it has bumps. DANGIT... | ||
| M1combat |
It's OK Alan... we know you didn't threaten him. He gets a little worked up sometimes. Water under the bridge man... yellow water , but water anyway yes? | ||
| Choptop |
So kinda back to my original idea and invite (which still stands) to do our own comparo... but didnt someone that works at Buell say that my comparo would mean nothing? why would anyone at Buell be afraid to have the faithful doing a comparo? | ||
| Imonabuss |
I don't think anyone at Buell is afraid at all. However, shipping people and bikes out to do a comparo test with the "far from faithful and wildly biased" sure would seem to be a waste of money. Let's see, your testers would consist of you, Vik and Cecil, right? Hmmmm. Personally, I think its better that they spend the money building bikes that win comparisons in magazines. | ||
| Choptop |
I never said Buell needs to send bikes. I said ANYONE, that means ANYONE, who would like to come out and ride a variety of bikes is welcome to do so. Come one come all. Make up yer own mind. The tester would consist of YOU. and from that I was told that the opinions that You would reach by doing so would mean nothing. from THAT, I formed the question of... What does Bueel have to be afraid of? Is this employee of Buell afraid that someone might ride a varitey of bikes back to back and come thier OWN comclusions? sure sounded like it. The phrase was... your comparo doesnt matter, the experts have spoken. Implying that what YOU like doesnt matter. | ||
| Aesquire |
Bummed I was that "Bike" was not yet in a upstate NY magazine shop. Thrilled I was that "Cycle World" really dug the new Buell. "It's only the coolest luggage rack ever, is all. ...." "...There aren't many motorcycle companies that when you go on a ride with the engineering wonks, you have to ride quickly to keep up. ..." Wait for the "Bike" article I must. | ||
| Blake |
"Ok Blake, here is some of your own medicine... you poo-poo'd one of my posts because it was a one case scenario... so its my turn.... The Buell win was a one time thing. Have they ever even RUN a Buell again in the class? Yes, pretty sure they did, and they showed respectably. I think Eric suffered a bad crash thought that took him out of the running. I don't recall what I poo-poo'd in your post that was a one-time type of issue. Firebolts winning races sure isn't a one-time thing and winning a FUSA Sportbike national race against 44 other competitors is sure not something that happens by accident or chance. It is pretty conclusive evidence that the bike is a capable platform for racing in appropriate racing classes. Here are just a few example of the Buell Firebolt's success on the track... 1. The Eric Wood/XB9R win at Loudon against top level national 600cc FUSA Sportbike competition, the XB9R being newly introduced only two months prior and having never before been ridden by Eric Wood prior to two weeks before the race. 2. The RRW team win in the FUSA National Team Challenge using a stock engined XB9R with a race kit. 3. The great showings and championship win by Costa Mouzouris in the Canadian Thunder National series. 4. The championship win by the Trojan-Horse / Adrenaline Moto team in the British Supertwins series. 5. The near total domination of Buell XB machines in FUSA Thunderbike. 6. The excellent performance of the Hal's Buell Pro-Thunder racing team in AMA Pro-Thunder when pitted against a VERY capable team fielding a highly modified Ducati 748R that was piloted by former WSB racer Kirk McCarthy (may God bless his soul). And many more respectable racing achievements by Buell racers. Alan, you implied that past press on the Buell XB's has been more negative than positive and asked "why the sudden change." You premise your first question in this thread on that very idea. I challenged that premise as I believe it to be false. As evidence I refered to a number of positive press reviews of the XB Buells following their initial release to the motojournos. I asked you where were the negative reviews that you were talking about. You don't answer. Read the Performance Bike's article conclusion that found through actual careful scientifically based testing that indeed the XB12R is the best cornering bike. That's two major magazines coming to the same conclusion. Wait, make that three, read the MO piece where the MO staff ran the XB9R with an R1 through their favorite twisty sections and reported that the XB9R pulled away from the R1, no matter who was ridding which bike. I find that it would be next to impossible to determine through mere feel how fast a bike is negotiating a turn. I spoke to this somewhat in my answer to a recent question here on the XBoard. It's tough to argue with the results of highly accurate telemetry and multiple passes by a collection of different riders through three different types of turns. The Buell XB12R is the best cornering bike. Congratulations Buell! | ||
| Blake |
"opinions that You would reach by doing so would mean nothing. " Right. You see Performance Bikes used an actual scientific approach. Sounds like BIKE Magazine did too, though they stretched things beyond simply measurement of performance. But mainly it is important to note that opinions do not qualify as scientific evidence. The carefully and accurately measured time interval it takes to travel from some set corner entry past some set corner exit is not open to opinion or the influence of personal perceptions. You just measure it. It is what it is. The Buell XB12R won that exact type of evaluation. It's no different from garnering the best elapsed time after a series of quarter mile drag races. Congratulation Buell! Pretty sure the staff of most moto-rags are impartial enough in such things. | ||
| Jon |
So, what does everybody think about the BIKE article... BWAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!! Sniggle....fart.... ahem... | ||
| Eeeeek |
I do remember the XB win three years ago. I should have put in a little sarcasm emoticon, meaning that I'm implying that was a looooong time ago. Grated, it was quite an accomplishment. Dig through your archives and you'll see that I gave praise. You can't rest your laurels on three years ago, though. Since that time we've seen the introduction of: Two generations of 600RRs Two generations of R6's A whole new GSXR600 Two generations of ZX6RRs Have you riden the new ZX6? Wow, what a bike. A Team win is a big deal. It has a lot to do with Fuel milage (where I bet the Buell did well) and pit stop speeds. Regardless, it's a big deal and I note SV's have been dominating that series. Saying that Buells have been dominating FUSA Thunderbike would be a misrepresntation. The ol' results show about an equal number of wins for each Buell and SVs, with one win by an air cooled duc. I, personally, feel that one of the most significant wins for Buell was Vallejo H-D's win in AFM FIV. Why do I rank that so high? Because of the sheer size of the class and number of extremely talented riders. Shawn Reilly, atop his highly modified Buell, beat the former CCS #1 plate holder, several AFM Class champions and about 50 other riders of various levels of experience, including me (I think I came in 19th that race). He made a draft move in the final lap to take the win by about a bike length and, for the first time ever, put an XB on the podium in the AFM. Vik |
