| Author | Message | ||
     Jon_s |
I just finished installing a Muller Power Clutch unit that I picked up from Al at American Sportbike. What a great piece of equipment! The reduction of effort at the lever is just amazing. The manufacturer claims 30-40% reduction; feels more like 50%. If you have small hands or (like me) have arthritis, I can't recommend this thing enough. Any trade offs? I haven't found one. Lever travel seems to be exactly the same. Given some of the media's comments about the heavy clutch effort on the XB12, it begs the question why the factory doesn't modify the ball and ramp assembly to achieve the same feel. Thanks Al; my left hand will forevermore be grateful. | ||
| U4euh |
Al I am not knocking your product, with that said, Jon let us know how the unit holds up. I have often heard of said products tendancy to break over time. Believe me I already tried someone else's version, but could not get it to install without grinding on it, and that was not something I wanted in the innards of my baby! How much was it, and time to install? | ||
| Fullpower |
"heavy clutch effort" who starts these rumours? | ||
| M1combat |
I agree Dean... However, some people just want/need a clutch that's particularly easy to pull... Me, I like to be able to shift w/ only a 1/2" of lever travel. The effort never bothered me, but I also practiced Jiu-Jitsu for three years. You use your hands a lot to grip your opponents Ghea so I'm probably not the best person to talk to about clutch lever tension causing problems... Jon-s - One more thing that'll make the effort required to pull the clutch go down... A CRG lever. If you set it close to the bar, your fingers have more leverage. I use the "shorty" version on the clutch side (which only allows the use of two/three fingers) but if you got the regular version it would make the clutch pull even easier... | ||
| Buelltroll |
Not at all,I have the CRG's on both sides,The amount of effort doesn't change at all with the lever being closer.Just shortens the "throw". | ||
| M1combat |
Yes it does... Due to the way your fingers work you get better mechanical advantage from your muscles. It's not a huge difference, but adjust your CRG all the way out and pull it in 1/4". Hold it until your fingers feel stiff. Adjust the lever all the way in and now do the same thing the NEXT DAY. You'll be able to hold it for a good deal longer. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I'm happy to hear about that kit. I think the clutch pull is unusually hard compared to bikes with comparable or more power from other manufacturers. Mine improved after Sammigs re-routed the cable from OEM, but it is still much stiffer than other brands. Could it be the diaphram spring? I'm no Jujitsu stud with an iron grip, and I find it distracting to feed out the clutch in mid-corner with the relatively hard pull. Engagement is fine, its just easier to have a delicate touch when there is less pressure at the lever. | ||
| Jon_s |
Fullpower, there was a time when I too might have scoffed at the clutch effort. Hell, I cut my teeth on Nortons. That came to an abrupt end some three years ago when I developed rheumatoid arthritis. I can tell you that the pain is real and it prevented me from riding for two years. Regardless, anything that reduces the effort at the bar is a good thing allowing you to expend your energy elsewhere; particularly on the track. By the way, it was Don Canet from Cycle World who most recently commented on the clutch effort. Ever ridden with him on a track? I can tell you he is greased lightning. Given the man's resume (which includes a few MotoGP bikes) and his very obvious skills behind a set of handlebars, I'm inclined to listen when he's got something to say. For those who are interested, the Muller unit is made in Germany, the workmanship is first class and is certainly as robust as the factory component it replaces. Installation is a ten minute operation and requires no special tools. I did consider the CRG levers and will likely pick them up later. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Jon, PM Sammigs if you want an additional opinion on the CRG levers, he has them. I've heard the same thing about Canet, apparantly he can really haul. | ||
| Al_lighton |
Jim, Are you sure that the product that you are talking about having to grind and that breaks is the Muller Power Clutch, and not the product(s) called the Easy Clutch or the related derivitives? The one that is an extension of the existing arm on the ball ramp thing is NOT a Muller power clutch. The Muller Power clutch replaces the entire ball ramp mechanism. It seems every bit as robust as the stock part to me. I'm not sure how it works. Seems like it shouldn't. One can always trade force for displacement, basic leverage principles at work. If you need a certain amount of displacement to fully separate the clutch pack, it doesn't seem like it should be possible to reduce the force just thru replacing the lever arms and/or ball ramps. But the Muller Power clutch DOES work. I've sold quite a few now, and the reports back are all quite favorable. People love them. My theory is that it doesn't truly trade force for displacement over the full travel, but that it reduces the forces at the end of the travel where your fingers are weak (like Don was saying about the CRG levers). That means that it is probably a little harder when the lever is close to the grip, but your hand has so much mechanical advantage there that it doesn't matter. Also, I suspect there is some minor difference on the arm angle, such that the linear pull of the cable results in more rotary motion of the ball/ramp due to a better optimized angle of the arm (i.e. arm motion is truly centered on the position where the arm is orthagonal to the cable pull), which permits a slightly longer lever arm to be used. However they did it, they did a good job. The combination of the Muller with the CRG levers is a very nice combo... Muller for lightening up the pull all the time, and the CRG for allowing you to further lighten it when you're in the twisties and don't need full clutch disengagement. Al (Message edited by al_lighton on June 24, 2005) | ||
| U4euh |
My mistake for not clarifying! Yes that is what I was talking about, and was wondering if this unit was similar in design. You it replaces the stock ramp unit, that is something I need to check into. As far as "heavy clutch effort", it is not that at all, just "easier clutch effort" is wanted. My wife enjoys going on childrens charity rides, I have organized several charity rides, and if you have ever been stuck @ Myrtle Beach easier clutch effort is a welcome addition. A slipper clutch would be great, but the money tree in my back yard still hasn't grown enough to produce. As far as getting into it on rides by myself, I have no complaints about the clutch. | ||
| Enigma |
I've had the Muller on now for over 8000 smiles, without any problems. With the CRG levers it's all now perfick,  Tho an upgrade to hydraulic clutch for next gen XB would be sweet,  | ||
| Trojan |
We've been supplying the Muller clutch for a long time now and have had no bad reports at all. a couple of people have reported a little difficulty in adjusting the unit to suit them, mostly on the tube frame models, but reliability has been 100%. They are also available for big twins & twin cams, although for some strange reason we don't sell may of those. Must be a macho Harley thang... | ||
| Rpmchris |
I've been looking at this product for a while - like Jon, I have arthritis in my left wrist (but degenerative, not rheumatoid) and have been looking for alternatives. Already have the CRG levers (long) and they helped. Also changed the angle of the lever pull down a bit. Besides that, I have the wider CR handlebars, and that helped with the angle of forearm/wrist to lever pull. Good thread!  | ||
| Al_lighton |
I put one of the Muller power clutches in the shop XBS lightning last weekend, figured I'd try to figure out why it works first. Still not quite sure why. Here are some pictures:     I made some measurements, but more would be needed to know the details of it's workings. The lever arm is about 1.76 for the Muller, 1.57 for the OEM arm. That's a 12.1% increase in lever arm length, so a 12% decrease in force (and a corresponding 12% decrease in clutch throw out distance, if all else remained the same). The total throw out at lock (where the snap ring prohibited any further separation of the two plates) was about .160 +/-.005 or so for the Muller, about .145 +/- .005 for the OEM mechanism. The total angle over full throw out was about 42 degrees for the muller, about 35 degrees for the OEM. In order to truly understand what is going on, one would need to plot throw out angle vs throw out distance. I would have needed to put together a fixture to have tested that, so I didn't. The one thing I should have measured, but didn't, was the angle of the arm relative to the cable with the clutch properly adjusted. So the bottom line, I still don't know why it works as well as it does. There is a substantial reduction in clutch pull, but I don't think I'd say it's 40%. Seems like about half that to me. But it is a noticeable difference. Al (Message edited by al_lighton on August 02, 2005) | ||
| Henrik |
Al; it looks like the ramps on the Muller might be a bit "longer" - i.e. less steep than stock. That could have something to do with it? Henrik | ||
| Al_lighton |
I'm sure there is something to that, Henrik. But the balls were different diameters, and how they sat in the grooves were different, so it wasn't easy to measure those differences. Al |
