| Author |
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Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 11:26 am: | 
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Now you got me thinking... Does the manual say to pull the rocker box covers BEFORE removing the cam cover? If not, then the bushings should be fine with the cams only supported on one side.
If manual says pull the rocker boxes BEFORE pulling the cam cover, then it may be a known bad thing to do.
If you could find a way to avoid removing the rocker boxes, it would be a REALLY easy job to replace the oil pump drive gear. |
Whodom
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 11:58 am: |
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Reepi- very good point; that makes sense. I'll check the book tonight. Al's evidently done several of these though; he should know the easiest way. I'll defer to him if he says it won't work.
I would like for this job to be as easy to do as possible since I will probably doing it in about 1500 miles. |
Captainplanet
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 12:17 pm: |
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Reep,
The manual says to remove the pushrods and the lifter before pulling the cam cover. |
Hogs
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 12:42 pm: |
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Just wondering do they not make adjustable pushrods for the buell/new sportsters as they do for the big twins etc.. That way you wd. just cut the original pushrods out of there and install them ,No need to remove then...I`m sure Jim`s, s&s and others should have them in stock as I`m sure even Dave here can get Screaming eagle ones I think ???? |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 12:50 pm: |
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They make 'em. You need collapsable pushrod covers as well. But they aren't in there yet, which means you still pull the rocker boxes 
Thanks Captian. Sounds like that answers the question. For the benefit of the guy that bought my used M2, in case he is lurking here, I will not mention the order that I did it when I replaced mine. Let's just say if you do it in the wrong order, it won't cause any immidately noticable damage  |
Hogs
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 12:58 pm: |
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Hey Reep.,
Not sure I understand ya ( aren`t in there yet ) What do Ya mean I thought YA just Cut the old ones out, install the new adjustable ones and slide them in along with the new tube covers , But where the xb`s are in side that black pushrod tube cover not sure how they are??? |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 01:21 pm: |
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Ok, so let me get this straight. Replacing this gear is not a simple "let's remove the oil pump and replace it". This is a "let's remove almost the entire top end of the engine and cases to ge the oil pump out." Right? |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 01:22 pm: |
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DOH! (again)...
Never thought about just cutting the current ones out.
I don't know how you would keep gunk out of the engine doing that though... but I bet people have good ideas for that I never thought of as well.
How hard is it to adjust the collapseable ones to the right length? Do they add a lot of mass to the valve drivetrain? Are they reliable? |
Whodom
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 02:37 pm: |
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Cataract- the oil pump is easy to get out (basically two socket head cap screws). That allows you to inspect the drive gear which is located on the crank (it can be viewed by looking up through the hole over the oil pump). As said before, some tubers eat this gear, some don't. Be sure and check all 360 degrees of gear as most wear on one side only (reason unexplained).
Changing the gear theoretically only involves removing the right side engine cover. However, by the book you have to remove both valve covers to relieve the pressure on the pushrods so that they aren't pressing on the lifters and cams which will only be supported on one end when you take the side cover off.
Reepicheep was told by a tech that you could leave them both on if you know how to do it. Al Lighton (who has changed several of these gears recently) says you can get away with just removing one. Hogs brings up the point that if you upgrade to adjustable pushrods and collapsible pushrod tubes, you can leave the top end alone, but that's more $$.
The best/easiest swap out method needs to be determined and posted to the KV for future reference; I suspect a lot of tuber riders will be upgrading to the new improved gear at the first opportunity. |
Outrider
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 02:43 pm: |
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Yikes...This looks like one job I will gladly pay to have done. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 02:50 pm: |
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it's easy enough to accomplish, easier to be put off by the thought of what has to be removed to gain access to the part --
I've dropped the cam cover w/out pulling the rocker boxes -- although I know the manual states otherwise, and for likely good reason, I managed to ger it off and re-installed without much trouble, about 30K miles ago, and have had . . ..
wait a minnite, I almost jinxed myself, didn't i?
never mind, follow the manual -- it will go easier
;-} |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 03:09 pm: |
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It's not hard, it just takes a while. Just the normal (reasonably easy) rocker box gasket replacement work (done twice) and pulling the cam cover (which is arguably easier then pulling the primary cover) and removing a crank nut.
No rocket science, just a few hours. Nothing that could not be done in a saturday, or in maybe three evenings after work. |
Hogs
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 04:28 pm: |
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Hey Reep.,
Keeping gunk out of the engine ,Hmm well with the tubers/sportster/bigtwins, The New pushrod tubes keep all out, However I`m not sure what is behind the Plastic pushrod covers on the xb`s,Or even if they are like the older models with tappet blocks for the covers to go into, Maybe someone can say here as I never had the covers off a XB yet,
As far as adjusting the pushrods after you done it once its a piece of Cake...as far as added mass,on the big twins/ sportster the better ones on the market always were of better quality and lighter..and Stronger..!!!
Whodom.. You are right, there is at first an added cost, But, If you pay a tech. to remove the tops, etc,etc. which also add to the $$$, Just think that the Next time you have to get into the cams etc. for any reason ,just lift up the tubes, loosen the pushrods and away ya go... also good If ya want to play with cams etc..
Then again this may be all for nothing Not knowing whats inside those plastic pushrod covers??? |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 04:42 pm: |
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If someone buys this gear, please tell us what the instructions say for it. I'm not to worried about my XB's one but maybe someday I will upgrade. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 06:05 pm: |
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I think that some previos sponsors (and maybe some current ones? I haven't checked) sell tappet block "caps" that will allow the use of adjustable sticks.
They CAN be had... |
Hogs
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 06:13 pm: |
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Hey M1, Thats good news , Will really change the looks as well,The more engine I can see the Better I likes It ...LoL |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 07:44 pm: |
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You don't want any valve spring pressure on the pushrods when removing the cam cover, and there is no place in the rotation of the engine where you won't have pressure on at least one pushrod/cam. So you put the engine at TDC on the compression stroke on the rear cylinder (front if you like), remove that rocker box. Then rotate the engine to the other cylinders TDC on the compression stroke so that there is no pressure on THOSE pushrods/cams. You can then remove the cam cover (after removing the timing pickup and timing cup, remember to scribe your timing pickup plate and case so you can put it back where you found it). If you remove it carefully, you'll leave the cams behind in the engine side bushings. You may need to help all 4 of them to stay there a little. Remove the pinion nut (using this), slide the pinion gear off, then the oil pump drive gear. Reverse procedure for installation, follow pinion nut tightening procedures in the manual (i.e. clean the threads well, red loctite, torque to 35-45 ft lbs, etc).
The manual says to, but you don't need to remove the lifters or the cams, but you want to have the pressure off the cams when you're re-installing. Plenty of folks have done it without doing this, but did they score a bushing when they did? We'll never know. But I wouldn't do it that way.
I didn't REPLACE several recently, I CHECKED several recently (MUCH easier job). I replaced only 1, and I had both rocker boxes off anyway because I was putting a new top end on the motor.
I recommend these days replacing the pushrod bases on tubers with these when doing a rocker box job. It eliminates another potential leak point and you do most of the work to get to these when you remove the rocker box anyway. Not 100% necessary, but they look great and are so inexpensive it seems like a reasonable thing to do. I wouldn't pull a rocker box specifically to install these if you don't have a leak there, but putting them in if the rocker box is off seems a good idea to me.
Al |
Hogs
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 09:48 pm: |
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Hey Al,
Thanks pal, thats a nice walk through on that..! |
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