| Author | Message | ||
     Mbsween |
I still want a H2! | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
Sure, few folks will run a bike up to 150mph. On my way to & from work there is a 7 mile straight section of farmland & I regularly see 160+ on it. I just like to be able to accelerate hard enough that the front wheel will catch a little air when shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear at 70 mph. That's fun, now why not try the same thing only its shifting into 2nd at 95mph & having the front end come up, then nailing third at 125mph with the same result. I dont mind the 2nd gear ones but the ones in 3rd & 4th at speeds in excess of 130 scare the crap outta me so I try not to do them. | ||
| Easy_rider |
Looks like the next Buell meeting needs to be in Texas.... U_B's buying!!! Really, Forcewinder intake, race ecm, new plugs and a TPS reset and acceleration takes a vacation in the mid 90's. I thought I saw mention that the intake is a limiting factor and figured it's why so many want to go to a carb instead of FI. Looks like some investigation is in order.... Indiana's more flat than twisted, so there are more opportunities to open it up than what you might see in the northeast - more like.......Texas. | ||
| Rocketman |
Combat sorry to keep ragging on you lately but I can't let you get away with this. keep in mind, the 999 doesn't have a lot more power, neither does the Mill The 999 has about twice the power of an XB12. No I haven't done the math that's just off the top of my head but I know I'm close. ------------------------------------------ Rocket, So you think that if Buell sells a bike that will make 150 mph the crowd clamoring for more power will go away? I'm not sure about that. As long as there are 180 mph bikes being sold for $10K, not sure it will ever go away. I agree so let's not call it power then. Instead my contention is that Buell have been around long enough that there's really no reason why they shouldn't have built a very fast motorcycle by now. It's long been an unwritten rule amongst motorcycle manufacturers that having the fastest production motorcycle to your credit does wonders for your standing in the dream world, boyhood pin-up world, general sales of all models in your range, no matter how small or large your production output. Once upon a time bikes like Van Veen and Munch held the titles of fastest bikes but they wouldn't have sold many for that reason if any at all. They were more sought after for collectible and exclusive and exotic quality reasoning no doubt by their discerning and no doubt wealthy customers but that is not why we remember them to this day. We remember them for the same reason they made it onto the 'Top Trumps' cards. Because they were once the fastest of all bikes. In the early 70's after Honda's 750 Four had took the world (read British m\c industry) by storm Kawasaki took up the mantle with their Z900. Billed as the fastest production bike in the world Kawasaki were not going to be out done by the likes of Laverda with their British production race developed Slater Brothers Jota so they hit back with the Z1000. The advertising called the Z1000 'The King Of The Road'. Did it stop there? No way. Honda joined in the power war with their CBX1000 in 1978 and it hasn't stopped since. Witness the GPZ1100 range which pretty much kept Kawasaki ahead of the opposition right through the 80's in terms of top speed. Suzuki joined the battle with their late comer GSXR1100 in 1986\7. What came next was a revolution for motorcycling in 1992. Honda launched the Fireblade and the 1990's were well under way. It wasn't until the Yamaha R1 of 1997 that Honda had Fireblade competition given the Suzuki's had been around for sometime in one form or another. The R1 moved the goal posts significantly. Significantly enough that Suzuki finally after dropping the range topping GSXR1100 sometime earlier in preference of their top selling 600 and 750 sportsbikes jumped back into the top speed war with their Hayabusa. Honda once again responded with their Blackbird. Likewise Kawasaki with their ZX12. What followed next because of a rumoured threat by Eurocrats to introduce a 100 hp restriction for motorcycles was a gentleman's agreement between manufacturers to curb the power war. It didn't last and the big bikes are still with us and the pure sports bikes just get better and better and faster and faster and the manufacturers show no sign of slowing down. I wonder, what was the iconic pin-up superbike of the 1970's, and what kind of power was it making? Garelli Tiger Cross  Yes a bit more power would be good. With all else being equal, which would you rather have, a bike that makes 100RWHP at 7,500 rpm or one that makes 110RWHP at 13,000 rpm? This is a trick question as you know I already have both. Choosing between the S1W and the 916 would not be an easy choice if I had only to keep one. The 916 would pip it for sure on three things though. 1. power \ performance \ handling 2. technical merit 3. build quality. The S1W's like Pammy Anderson where as the 916 is like Isabella Rosselini. So you tell me which you prefer? Pammy on the boat with you in place of Tommy or Isabella and you singing Blue Velvet in place of Dennis? Tough choice eh? I guess I'm not willing to sacrifice everything I dig about the Buell V-Twin for a bit more HP. I don't want a radiator. I don't want valve adjustments. I don't want multiple throttle bodies. I don't want inferior fuel efficiency. I don't want four cylinders, unless perhaps it is configured in a big-bang pseudo-twin configuration. Yeah, I want more power, I spent some money to get it. With a fairing and proper gearing, I know the old Cyclone will breach 150 mph too. Making peak speed is as much about aerodynamics as it is power. I want the high tech to come to Buell and you don't need aerodynamics to exceed 150mph. Yes it is uncomfortable but there's a 3 mile stretch near me where on any Sunday you just gun it come what may. The Buells are left for dead but it would be nice not to be. I think that leads me to an important revelation. Naked bikes and their riders don't suffer high speed well, so even ignoring the insanity of going that fast on a public road not the Autobahn, maybe most of us who prefer the naked sport bike simply don't see any need to make 150 mph as to us it seems insane, painful even, a completely different view from those who prefer fully faired bikes where 150 mph can be a sensory walk in the park, like on a Busa for instance. But my point was in my earlier post that we all want to go 150mph if only for a few seconds. Even when we are sat with friends over a few pints we still want to go 150mph yet our bikes are parked at home tucked up in bed nowhere to be seen. It's that armchair Chuck Yaeger thing right???? But maybe we might want to accelerate harder to 120 mph before scaring ourselves in the ensuing category-3 hurricane and dropping back to a nice 80 mph cruise. Absolutely - that too! What is the big difference in effect from 120 to 150 mph you ask? Only 56% more wind force is all. That wind force is what lets you know you're fighting the elements against all odds and that's what thrill seekers need. The equipment to push to the limit. Push ever harder at the edge of the envelope. Bring it on. I'm all for more power and more speed and Buell certainly are capable of beating anyone at this game if they so wished to. End of the day if Buell brought us a 100 production run 200mph superbike for a ridiculously expensive price how do you imagine this would affect Buells standing in the motorcycling world? Would you buy such a Buell if you could afford one? Becha would!!! Rocket | ||
| Blake |
Yer not paying attention as to how I use my bike. Good grief! Twice the HP of an XB12??? I wish. That would be 206BHP at the crank or 184RWHP. Motorcyclist dyno testing last year shows the Ducati 999 putting down 118.55 SAE RWHP.  We can get your Buell up to that level if you like. I know a chick who will see to it. | ||
| Blake |
PS: You and some of the other moto-historians here ought to get together and write some stuff, you know, an autobiographical view of the performance moto world from boyhood onwards. | ||
| Firemanjim |
Jeez,you guys would argue over which side of a hamburger to cook first. Pretty much ALL motorcycles are fun to ride,whether it's a Honda 50 to a 105" Harley.Just cuz you happen to like one over another is simply a matter of taste---fer pete's sake some people actually bought Ramblers on purpose.To knock anyones choice of ride is plain silly, like arguing over what flavor of ice cream is best. And about HP,as with motorcycles in general,it is not about need, it's about WANT!!! And I want more HP(have 180 want about 250)kinda like motorcycles,sex,and money, cannot have too much. And there is this marvelous invention for taming all that HP--it's called a "throttle'!!!! | ||
| Uncle_bob |
Easy Fireman, my Grandfather had not only one Nash, but two!!!!!! I liked his Hudson Hornet the best though. | ||
| Pushrodpete |
I wonder, what was the iconic pin-up superbike of the 1970's As several astute Badwebber's have already pointed out -- The Kawasaki H2!  Very pre-Buellish: Laugh-out-loud fun, wakes the neighbors, scares the kids, controls mosquitos while U wait! You can also spatter tailgaters with a fine oil mist... HP on mine ("The Kawasaki Valdez" ) is probably in the 60-70 range by my butt dyno (I'm workin' on it!), but it's hard to tell cuz the power curve is kinda like ogling the above-mentioned Pamela Anderson from the toes up: Skinny... skinny... skinny... skinny... OH MY HOLY GEEZ A MOLY!!!  And Blake, why you hatin' 2-smokes? Talk about minimal maintenance: NO valves, only 7 moving parts (crank, 3 pistons, 3 con-rods). Hell, you don't even need to change the oil! I still have a dream (crushed for another year  ) where Erik does what Bimota couldn't and brings out a killer street-legal 2-stroke. More fun than a trashcan full of chainsaws! Oh wait, that's what my H2 sounds like.... | ||
| M2me |
Jeez,you guys would argue over which side of a hamburger to cook first. I agree 100%! I purchased, ride and enjoy a 2001 Buell M2. I know that there were other bikes in the same price range that would have offered "more power". I didn't buy any of those bikes and I don't feel that I need to justify or explain my purchasing decision to anyone. Can't we discuss more interesting topics like politics? | ||
| Socalbueller |
You know why Buell needs more power. I'll tell you why! I am sick of seeing all these Japanese motorcycles in major races. World Superbike? More like Japanese Superbike with a couple Italians. Who here wouldn't like to see a Buell dicing it up in AMA superbike, supersport, or World Superbike? I know they supposedly compete in FX but I have not seen them on Speed or heard anything about them. While I was at Laguna I kept thinking how sweet it would be if I could root for an American made motorcycle. Chances are it will never happen because there is no way the stock holders would let Harley invest in a serious racing program. It seems like the only people who have passion for motorcycles at HD are at Buell and with 3% of sales I'm guessing they don't get much say on the cash they get. To develop a world class engine costs a lot more than a world-class chassis. Putting a Rotax in a Buell is a lame idea to me. Kind of like an easy fix or cop out. I'm sure Erik has some unique and funky ideas for a more powerful engine. Erik Buell has made this kick-••• bike and I feel he is stuck with the Sportster mill and he has done an amazing job with what he had to work with but as everybody knows doesn't come close to other serious sportbikes Don't get me wrong I LOVE my XB12R. The pluses far out number the minuses. Plenty of power for the street but I can see how you would want more for the track. In the near future I plan on finding out for myself. | ||
| Blake |
Pete, It's the horrible, horrible evil soul grating noise. I cannot tolerate it. I want to put a bullet through every one that comes within earshot. Too much time spent with a chainsaw, lawn boy mower, and weed wacker maybe? I hate 'em I tell you! Kill 'em all and melt 'em down. I hate 'em! | ||
| Tramp |
I hear you- weird thing about 2-strokes is that they always sound like they're protesting. a four-stroke sounds like it's gung-ho for the grip-twist, and two-strokes seem to be whining | ||
| Jlnance |
Hi Rocket, It's long been an unwritten rule amongst motorcycle manufacturers that having the fastest production motorcycle to your credit does wonders for your standing in the dream world, boyhood pin-up world, general sales of all models in your range, no matter how small or large your production output. I admit that I would be very proud if Buell did make the fastest bike in the world. But that would be an expensive game for Buell to play. Surely Honda or Suzuiki or whomever currently makes the fastest bike isn't just going to roll over and let Buell take that prize with out a fight. And it would be a difficult fight, as the others have more money, and experience (making fast bikes) to throw at the problem than Buell does. I would love it if Buell made the fastest bike in the world (so would everyone else on this board, even if they deny it  ,) but it would be financial suicide for them to try. | ||
| Ceejay |
I don't know that lumberjacker song was pretty good, and I like chainsaws and dirtbikes, hell, buell moved to somewhat offroad, why not go full bore, be kind of nice to see the motor company back in the dirt, of course it may not help keep focus as I would rather see them kicking tail at the track, because while they might not be the fastest bikes out there, if you start competing and hitting a few podiums there I definitely think people will start smiling a bit more. | ||
| Dsergison |
what ever happened to these guys and the turbo diesel sportbike? http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2005/02/25/thunder-star-1200-diesel-by-star-tw in/ (Message edited by dsergison on July 27, 2005) | ||
| Tripp |
i'm figuring approx. 110bhp would do it for me for power. i'm probably somewhere in the 90s with my current configuration and would like a little more, however it's not a big deal as my bike is used mostly for commuting. if and when i do want to go real fast it's a stop light to stop light thing and lucretia does just fine in that environment. i like eric's philosophy of real world power for everyday riding because that's what i like, if i raced or did track days i would buy a bike for just that reason and would still ride my m2 on the street. | ||
| Oldog |
nice specimen h2 there pete! it was my pinup bike, with the tz750, 750-4, Z1 I wanted one of those, at the time there was nothing like the buell, and the new HD motorcycles (v2) had pans under them in the local dealers store, its a good thing that the company went thru what it did, say what you want HD is for now alive and well, I like the buells the way they are but i have to agree strictly from a sales stand point bigger numbers OR race victories = more sales. PS shame on you Blake, that H2 is definately a collector!  | ||
| Firemanjim |
Blake,you must not be an old dirt biker or you would love the sound of a good 2 stroke.The 4 strokes until recently were always heavy and slow. | ||
| Dsergison |
funny point. my X1 = street version of my Xr400 The X1 was a very familiar feeling first street bike comming fromn the xr. | ||
| Ceejay |
It still sounds funny when you hear one of the thumpers pulling around the track, If I'm there still prefer the the smell of spent gas oil and alcohol. | ||
| Rick_a |
I would say about 100hp with huge low end power would be pretty entertaining on the street. If I were to build something that was not going to be street ridden much around 120 would be ideal. Personally, I see no point in owning a 150+ horsepower bike. About aerodynamics, the small flyscreens seem to do fine at 100+, as far as wind buffeting goes. You just need to keep your head down! | ||
| Tramp |
Frycookjim said: "Blake,you must not be an old dirt biker or you would love the sound of a good 2 stroke.The 4 strokes until recently were always heavy and slow" I'm an old dirt-biker and I can't stand the din. reminds me of the period when I grew out of my winning XR-75 (1976) and had to race 100cc class, and was availed only a 4-stroke. the wailing of the 2-strokes, to me, triggers childhood memories of getting dusted by the guys I was formerly blazing. ...find the happy place find the happy place find the happy place.... | ||
| Daves |
Hey Tramp, call me! | ||
| M1combat |
"Combat sorry to keep ragging on you lately but I can't let you get away with this. keep in mind, the 999 doesn't have a lot more power, neither does the Mill The 999 has about twice the power of an XB12. No I haven't done the math that's just off the top of my head but I know I'm close. " Nope... You're not... And with the price difference put back into the bike I'd have a more powerful better handling lighter bike than a 999 OR 999S with less maintenance (unless of course if you count the maintenance involved in re-building the engine). Keep in mind... The 999 is $6700 more, the 999S is $12K more. That will buy a LOT of engine in a Buell. A lot more than the Duck waddles around with . One more thing... The Buell has a "claimed" dry weight of 395# Vs. the Duck's "claimed" dry weight of 439#. /EDIT - On Oh, and I don't mind the ragging , it keeps me honest  . (Message edited by m1combat on July 27, 2005) | ||
| Tripp |
that's a good point taking the money you saved and putting back into the bike would make one heck of a powerful vtwin missile! | ||
| M1combat |
Yes it would... And you'd have fun doing it. This is one of the MOST important reasons I got an XB... I don't see myself getting rid of it until metal fatigue starts in on the frame or something. HOPEFULY by that time XB frames will be a dime a dozen . I'm thinking about going with the largest bore I can get. Should leave me with 3-13/16" to leave a LITTLE room for honing, and a SUPER charger (note that I didn't say TURBO charger ) and a custom crank that'll get me to 1350CC or there abouts . www.rotrex.com (Which can be bought through hill-billy motors...) | ||
| Signguyxb12 |
tripp wrote: "i'm probably somewhere in the 90s with my current configuration" Ha ha ha ha if that bikes in the 90's then i weight 150 lbs that bike is plane sick The thing i like about you most is how humble you are! | ||
| Pammy |
Let's make this simple. If you like Buell, then buy it. If you don't, then buy something else. I love HP. I live for it(literally). But I am also realistic. I think if anyone wants something different than what is commercially available, they should just build it themselves. It's that simple right? Haul it on out to your big ol' garage (or quonset hut) and build whatever you want...you could even market it, sell it to everyone...because, of course, everyone wants the same EXACT thing, right?, While you are at, you can stand behind it. Rebuild, replace, revamp, everything that goes wrong on your new creation for a couple of years, while trying to change the design (which means tooling, mfg, supplier changes) every year in order to keep up with the latest missile(without copying it), without compromising any reliability. Yeah, let me know how that works out for ya... Jim, I burn MY burgers on the bottom first, naturally. Sheesh...amateurs | ||
| Pammy |
Keep in mind you have to support the parts on your initial creation for about 10 years or so. So the NEW tooling, mfg, etc...is in ADDITION to your old tooling... (Message edited by pammy on July 27, 2005) |
