| Author | Message | ||
     Uncle_bob |
It seems this board gets continues threads about the lack of power coming from our Buells. I would like to ask how much do you need? The current XB12R runs zero to 60 in about 3.5 seconds, tops out around 140mph and runs the qtr in mid 11's. This isn't enough? These stats can be found in the back of any issue of 'Motorcyclist' magazine by the way. I don't think Erik Buell gives a rats arse about top speed or quarter mile shoot outs with Jap liter bikes. Neither do I. I'm quite satisfied with the bikes performance. If the current selection of Buells are not powerful enough for you, there are many other makes and models out there to choose from. You may not be able to identify your Jap bike from a line up, but you'll be able to go really fast on it. While I'm on a rant, what's up with the sitepests here that don't own Buells? Do you not have jobs or a life? Try owning one first before you formulate an opinion or head over to the BMW boards and bash their motorcycles for not keeping up with Hayabusa's. There, I feel better. | ||
| Dsergison |
just "more". always "more" we don't have anything else to bitch about.... might as well fall back on "more" Gimme more! gimme more! gimme more than I deserve. I won't stop wanting more till I need a spatula to scrape my eyeballs off the back of my skull! -not to say I'm not HAPPY. But to want more is the American way, right? I don't crave better handling or more character, because I feel that's maxed out allready. You just gave us a bike that will fit my 6'2" body. (my wallet screams) but if youre going to pick an area to want more, power is it. (Message edited by dsergison on July 25, 2005) | ||
| Dsergison |
actually, there is one thing. the current muffler on the 2003 xb9 is a rusting POS. a lighter stainless stock exhaust would be nice. | ||
| P0p0k0pf |
Seriously... When will it be "enough" power? It's basically taboo to release a new sport bike without more power than the previous model. How is it going to level out, or where will the lust and appeal be diverted to? Will we be seeing federal regulations on motorcycle performance in the future? I started thinking this when a coworker pulled into work on his new bike... it has more HP than my VW Jetta | ||
| Cataract2 |
Hmmm, I would like about 110hp to 120hp at the wheel and a 6th gear. Otherwise, this bike is perfact. Well, that was until the XB12X came out. hehehehe. That's just me. What works for you may not work for others. Keep in mind, many people may not want a jap bike. They want the power to come from an American bike. Buell provides all except the power. Is it to much to ask for that. Same ol story comes from those who say why and those who say why not? I say, keep the line up and bring out a new XB or whatever with more power. You'll never be rid of those who want more, but you may calm those who want more that 90hp. | ||
| Blake |
As the price of gasoline rises, at some point the sport bike/repli-racer crowd's furor over more peak HP might start to take a back seat. I spent $3,000 to get the kind of improved power delivery in my '97 Cyclone that I wanted. An honest 100RWHP and almost 90 LB*FT of torque with 80 LB*FT of torque all the way down at 3K rpm. Due to cam selection (moderate lift, low overlap) it begins to fall off at around 5,600 rpm. If I could keep the big low end and monster mid-range while improving the top end, I'd go for that. So maybe 110 RWHP is my sweet spot for a Buell street bike. For the track? I want reliable, race it all year without cracking the heads, 120 RWHP with little regard for low end (<4K rpm) performance. | ||
| Blake |
You know what would be really cool to see, and maybe this has already been illustrated in Fuel or even here already... a comparison of the torque and HP curves for the XB12 with stock exhaust valve operational as intended, with the valve kept open, and with the valve kept closed. I think Odie may really be on to something with keeping the interactive exhaust feature in his performance pipes. We need a shootout! | ||
| S1eric |
So maybe 110 RWHP is my sweet spot for A Buell street bike. Yep I gotta agree. | ||
| Bomber |
Econ 101 sez that so long as they are hitting their numbers, a manufacturer has little to gain in upping any particular spec on a product Buell has confounded the market by producing bikes that just keep getting better and better -- sometimes, in ways no one thought to ask for me, I'd love more power too, and will get it when I can afford it -- if I was Buell Inc, I'd be incredibly leery of releasing an engine that wasn't absolutely, dead nuts, no-doubt-about-it reliable under any circumstances -- the brand took some bashing over reliability in the past (some earned, some not), and, like any good product manager, they are going about addressing the most serious problem first. I'd guess that there's a more powerful mill in the future, now that the XB series engines are reliable -- but, hey, I've been wrong before (Message edited by bomber on July 25, 2005) | ||
| Spatten1 |
Bob, I own one. I also subscribe to Motorcyclist. I've read the back of the magazine, and the Buell is the slowest true sport machine of the lot. Which indicates to me that someone wants more power. You can just keep preaching to the converted, but the other 95% of sport riders want more power. It is probably fine if you've ridden Harleys or 80's Japanese bikes in the past, but it is a bit of a let down to suddenly lose 30% of your horsepower when you switch to Buell from a modern Japanese bike. I wanted the XB because I think it is an awesome bike, and I'm OK with a slower bike because I'm at a later stage in life now. Most people I know would love to own an American bike, but will never ride something this slow. I'm not just griping, I explaining why most people I know will never consider a Buell, and that is a shame. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Blake, I agree, 110 RWHP would be enough to satisfy a huge percentage of the populace. You don't have to have the most power, you just have to be in the same ball park. For instance, Ducati and Aprilia don't make the power of a Japanese 4 cylinder, but they don't get chastised for it either. They are still strong enough to be very competitive with the V-Twin power delivery, plus they have the allure of the twin feel and sound. With 110 you could make serious hay with an XB. That would be a dream come true. | ||
| Uncle_bob |
Is it possible to create more power from the current engine without taking away from reliability, raising costs or having emission problems? If so, I'm all for it. My point is, I don't want to see prices go out of site for these motorcycles for the sake of engine performance. The most powerful Buells cost nearly $11k. What will they cost when adding 10% or 20% more power? Does Buell retrofit somebody else's twin into this chassis to lower costs and keep from developing there own new engines? Hey, I wouldn't mind an little extra umph. I like power too. It's just not why I bought the bike. | ||
| Jeremyh |
keep in mind that many members have, or have had both japanese and american bikes. Flavor is Flavor and everyones tongue tastes it a different way. FYI: More power is always available so long as it fits your paycheck (Message edited by jeremyh on July 25, 2005) | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
I have to reluctantly agree with the 110 hp crowd: everyone wants more power if they are going to buy a bike. Whether they need it or not, well, who knows. When I am out with the lads, I don't have much trouble keeping up in the twisties, even though on my race kitted XB9S I am spotting them thirty years and fifty plus horse ponies. When they want to get stupid on the straights, going over 100 on the public roads, I can't keep up, and I don't want to. I started riding in 1957, and I'm still here:-). Everyone of the other riders will tell me my bike doesn't have enough power, yet they never tell me it is too slow:-). Perhaps they are just humoring an old timer:-) Go figure. Beats me. | ||
| Ray_maines |
P0p0k0pf asks "When will it be 'enough' power?" Well, here's Ray's 2¢ worth of personal opinion about the current state of Buell HP: More is always better I suppose, but......... I don't know nothing about marketing and sales and such, but............ I observe that people on various BBS's quit asking for more horse power when the RWHP number is at about 100 to 110. At that point, any given sports type bike goes fast enough to keep most owners happy. We all want our bikes to run properly so we all continue to install new mufflers and tweak the electronic ignition modules, but the overall whining about power drops way off at about the 100 - 110 RWHP level. Therefore; I agree with S1eric, Blake, Cataract2, Jon and just about everyone else, that just a tad more power would be a good thing. But we're close. Really close. BTW: We don't need no stinkin' 6th gear! At least not until the peak power goes up enough to screw up the wide flat torque curve that we all know and love. | ||
| M1combat |
"Everyone of the other riders will tell me my bike doesn't have enough power, yet they never tell me it is too slow:-). " Exactly  . | ||
| Lovematt |
I am very happy with the power of my XB9R...I get enjoyment out of actually using it all rather than seeming like I am only using 50% of the max power even for short bursts. I like working with the powerband to make the bike do what I want depending upon the situation. All I know is that pumping up a motor big time really takes a toll on reliability. I have seen motors last 20 minutes as well as 20 years... | ||
| Chainsaw |
Funny thing, guys on the VROD boards are doing the little tricks to eek out another 2-6 hp on 115hp bikes. Any bike with 160hp is a waste, unless you slap a boat hitch on that sumbitch! Put them ponies to some real work, baby!  | ||
| Ceejay |
funny thing about those vrods, I got a couple of friends with them, both have taken a ride on mine, and while I have never dyno'd it I imagine it put out around 95 to the rear, they usually park in front of me shaking thier head wondering why it feels so damn fast, and yes they have ridden other sport bikes. Me I've ridden a couple of the Japanese offerings cbr1000, susis 600, etc. way different power curve, and while mine has shifted to the high side, it is just way more fun than what they got/had. | ||
| Timbo |
Uncle Bob asks... >>>It seems this board gets continues threads about the lack of power coming from our Buells. I would like to ask how much do you need?<<< Timbo thinks...  Then says... Hmmm.....well.....220 HP seemed about just right.  LOL | ||
| Uncle_bob |
Different strokes for different folks I say. I for one am one happy customer so far. Thank you Eric Buell for making a fun and very different motorcycle. For the record Spatten1, I have owned an HD Sportster, an 83' GPz1100, a 92' GS500 and currently also have a 78' CB400. Funny you mention the power of a Buell is fine if you like Harleys or 80's Japanese bikes. I let a good friend of mine ride my Buell the other day. When he came back after a quick 15 minute ride, he had a stupid grin on his face and the only two words he said was "I'm impressed". He rides a CBR1000. | ||
| Rocketman |
Why do those who are happy with the power of Buells past and present knock those amongst us who want more? There's a lot of long time BadWeBers who've been screaming for more power for years and Buell haven't delivered. To put that in any kind of perspective whether or not you think or believe more power is necessary, BMW have just built a 165bhp superbike that allegedly kicks the arse of many Japanese and Italian similar offerings and not just in the power department but handling too. Consider - I was watching BBC2's 'Top Gear' last Sunday evening where presenter Jeremy Clarkson tells us Vauxhall's latest 'hot hatchback' 4 cylinder offering, the average car bought in the UK by Mr Family man in his 30's and 40's has exactly the same power as the iconic pin-up supercar of the 70's the Ferrari 308. Power is everything even if most of your customers won't ever use it - even if you give them it. You want to know why? Well I'll tell you. Because it is what all other talents you offer are judged by. Buell as a manufacturer fly in the face of this because I imagine they rely upon showcasing the genius of Erik Buell as an engineer instead. It obviously works for them too but that has lots to do with being an American manufacturer and a loyal customer base in the home market. I imagine the North American continent is ideal stomping ground for Buells latest dual Buell offerings but in a grid locked Europe I'm not so sure how long the trend will last for city hopping bigger bikes. To put that into comparison with bikes I'm referring to think Streetfighter's like Brutale (which they've just made more powerful by customer demand), Benelli TNT, Monster S4R (Ducati saw the need for a 916 version of their aging Monster and it's since sold like hot cakes) and of course the Japanese offerings such as Kawasaki Z1000 and the naked R1 the FZ1000 and in this band of merry steeds Buell's more powerful range topper the XB12S. Well truth is the XB12S is out of its depth once the city is hopped and the twisties are left behind.The XB12 got thrashed on the track as well as on the open road in all the test against exactly the model bikes mentioned here. Yes it performed and handled in a class of its own so to speak and we've all heard how it holds a corner faster than most anything but truth is it doesn't represent the talents of the worlds richest motorcycle company nor does it represent the future direction of which all manufacturers talents are judged by first and that's by showing the world you are capable of running at the top when it comes to performance. What makes this significant is that when we've all hopped the city there are two races to run whether you win them or not. The first one last a matter of seconds for many many riders. It's the race where the throttle is wound back hard to see how far you can make the needle go around the numbered dial that tells one how fast they are traveling. The second race last a lot lot longer. Usually about the time it takes to down at least two pints of fine Northern English cold cask conditioned ale - and brag about how fast your bike goes. Sadly Buell wins non of these races. If Buell could build a motorcycle as handsome as the Brutale and stick at least 150mph + power into its soul that's when the real world will stand up and pay attention. Meanwhile lurking in every corner there will always be clusters of people who don't need this immature ideology to merit owning a motorcycle by and they will buy simply because they've grown up seen sense and in some cases forgot what it's like to set your hair on fire at 150 miles per fecking hour. If that's you then fair play to you but do me a favour, LEAVE US ALONE WHO WANT MORE POWER!!!!  Rocket | ||
| Easy_rider |
I need to easily accelerate past 100 whenever I want. I'm not sure at this point my S3 can reach 100 unless it's going downhill. To me, that's an embarrassment in this day and age of sport bikes. It's a decent bike 97% of the time. But if you ask what I want, power tops the list. I'd have to say that's a credit to engineering done on the rest of the bike. The power is limited by the initial decision to use an engine configuration with a weakness in that area. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that "the talents of the worlds richest motorcycle company" have the ability or desire to start from scratch and build an engine that matches the rest of the bike. Admittedly, the market may not be there. Meanwhile, Uncle Bob, just because you're satisfied doesn't mean I have to be. If you don't like what you read, GET OFF THE BOARD!!! | ||
| Bomber |
more power would be a great addition -- I've no idea if the existing engine can be made reliable and cost-effectively for little or no price increase, but I'd wager that folks have, are, and will continue to look at htat possibility as for dropping in someone else's mill, while that's a time honored way to increase power (and reliability, witness the Chevy 350 powered E-Type Jags that were semi-common at one time), it's become much more complicated these days, as the motorcycle engineering community has grown in talent and their outputs more "of-a-piece," as it were -- often mentioned is the rotax v-twin -- have examined both the XB series frames and the rotax mill with eyeball, mk 1 (which has not be caalibrated for quite some time), I dunno how installing that engine would affect the chassis ability -- don't misunderstand, I ain't saying it's impossible, just that it's no longer a warrented out-come nuetral to positive activity performable by a coulpe o guys like me and thang in the entropy lab over the weekend (as it most certainly was at one time, again, witness Norvins and such) anyone with the education/knowledge care to chime in? | ||
| Buelluk |
RWHP - does that mean rear wheel horsepower OR real world horsepower... Let's face it ,for the bulk of riders ,the Japanese multis make the former not the latter | ||
| Uncle_bob |
"Meanwhile, Uncle Bob, just because you're satisfied doesn't mean I have to be. If you don't like what you read, GET OFF THE BOARD!!!" That pretty much sums it up. I think I'll take your advice. Sorry to have a different opinion than others here.} | ||
| Reepicheep |
The Rotax V-Twin, as I observe it in a streetable configurtion on the KTM Duke, looks like a step backwards to me over the current 12 motor. You get a moderate top end gain (what, 10%) at the cost of a ruined bottom part of the power curve. The motor is lighter, but I would have to see the total wet weights (with plumbing for the Rotax radiator) to know if that is a huge improvement or not. The Rotax motor would have to be a pretty compelling package to make me give up the simplicity and compactness of my aircooled motor. And remember, this has to be a EPA approved street trim configuration motor. If you can start quoting Rotax race motors, then I can compare them to something coming from Aaron Wilson or Wes Brown. | ||
| Dbird29 |
Uncle Bob, I think he was kidding! | ||
| Bomber |
if he wasn't kidding, he was wrong | ||
| Nedwreck |
I"m also an "Uncle Bob". I agree with the other Uncle Bob. Mine's just fine in the power dep't. I did make some cosmetic changes that had to have made my bike faster. It's now 8 pounds lighter. I know it ain't much but what the hey. Anyway, don't leave Uncle Bob. If everyone left just coz they disagreed with someone else, this would soon be a message board with a population of one. Bob |
