| Author | Message | ||
     Ryker77 |
Ok this is i am not sure about VOES is what carb bikes use - since my x1 is no longer using any of the fuel injection parts how does the ECU know to retard the timing during acceleration? Guess I need switch to an aftermarket set up. Also do I check the timing the same way I would on a Sportster. Timing light at the inspection hole? And to adjust I just rotate the plate? | ||
| X1rated |
Ryker, I decided that the ECM did not have a way to retard or advance timing, so I just ordered a crane HI-4E ignition as well as the stuff to hook it up without hacking the wiring harness. There is some stuff in the knowledge vault on this, but it's not very specific. I have ordered the Deutsch connectors to adapt the crane directly to the ECM deutsch connections on the harness. I'm working on a wiring diagram right now for the "adapter" i'm making. To use the crane, you have to change the timing cup behind the CPS, as the carbed bikes only have two slots and the FI bikes have like six slots. After that you would just follow the timing instructions for the crane. The crane can be used with or without VOES. My stuff should be here any day now. If you like you can E-mail me directly and i'll dig up all the part #s and what info I have so far. Justin | ||
| Ryker77 |
that would be awesome! I hate cutting or jacking with the oem wires. I had compared crane to the dyna. Looked like you get more for less money with dyna. Some good deals on the dyna on ebay. so timing cup, after market ignition, and the deutsch connectors. Cool ------ In the mean time I'd like to check my timing. | ||
| X1rated |
ooops  (Message edited by x1rated on July 13, 2005) | ||
| X1rated |
From what I understand, screwing with the timing on the FI bikes can only make things worse. VERY sensitive to the smallest change. Are you just looking to verify that the timing is where it's supposed to be stock? Manual says you need to use the timing mark, but you also need to connect a breakout box HD part #HD 42682 to the grey connector on the ECM and measure the voltage with a voltmeter connected to the breakout box. I'm sure you could make your own connections on the ECM connectors with some wiring instead of buying the breakout box though. Do you have a manual or do you want me to send you the specifics? Let me know. Justin | ||
| X1rated |
Also , the dyna ignition requires an aftermarket coil and wires ($$$$). The crane can be used with the stock coil and wires or aftermarket, so it ends up being much cheaper and you don't have to screw around with mounting an aftermarket coil. | ||
| Crashm1 |
The other thing about the Dyna's are the wires and pick up coils seem to be really sensitive to vibration, which can lead to a really annoying and hard to find intermittent misfire. I'm still not clear on why you guys are ditching the DDFI. I really like it. On the other hand I work with FI cars everyday so maybe I'm biased. Once you understand how it works it's simpler than a carb and way more reliable. Not to mention self correcting for altitude and suchlike. | ||
| X1rated |
I ditched mine because harley of Tucson did not have a tech that could reset my TPS, and it was before the new software came out. So I had no choice if I wanted my bike to run. I plan on switching back one day. I'm just a little pissed off at the fact that Harley dealers who sell Buells do not have Buell competent techs. | ||
| Ryker77 |
X1rated, when I bought the bike the owener told me he was running retarded timing to allow for pump fuel with the high compression set up. I'll be using off-road octane boost. I've got the manual.. says something about timing mark and rotating the rear tire.. Just some more stupid bullshit computer stuff that will be yanked out! I'll check into the crane ignition again. thanks for the advice. Crashm1, the DDFI is simple. However when something does go wrong a person could spend alot of cash and time at the dealerships. IF you can even find a good Buell tech. I fear that soon these older tube DDFI will be harder to find parts and good service. | ||
| Ryker77 |
Looks like crane recommends the addition of a VOES. Just mount the VOES, run vacuum line, and attach the wire from the Crane ignt. X1 are you using the Hi4 or Hi4 power link? I compared them both and the slopes range is the same. Just that the powerlink version can be fine tuned with a laptop (out of my scope) but might be usefull on a bike set up like mine. But since I never race probablt not worht the extra cost. "We recommend replacing the OE coil. Coils used with the HI-4 must have at least 2 ohms primary resistance. Coils with 4 ohms or higher may be used, but may not produce optimum output." Buell x1 manual tell me that the factory coil is 0.5-0.7 ohms. Which is less than what Crane recommends at least 2 ohms. Crane coils are 3ohms. | ||
| Ryker77 |
Dyna2ki ignition also recommend a coild with 3 ohms. But Dyna did say that a stock dual fire coil can be used. The X1 uses a single fire coil. If cost was an issue I bet a used sportster coil would work. look like both the crane Hi4 8-4100 and dyna d2ki-2p or 5p (small coil) KITS cost about the same 290-300. the dyna kits don't come with spark plugs but they are PC programable with the wire kit. Crane has a much better website and instructions. | ||
| Ryker77 |
the small dyno coil "Overall Dimensions: 4.2” x 2.3” x 1.6” Mounting Centers: 2.9” min: 3.5” m" part number DC1-3. 100.00 bucks | ||
| X1rated |
If the previous owner "adjusted" the timing at all, he probably did more harm than good. "The HI-4E can be used with the stock H-D coil, a Crane Part Number 8-3006 replacement coil, or, for maximum performance, a Crane Part Number 8-3001 or 8-3005 single-fire coil." That is from the crane website. In the knowledge vault, there are a couple people using the HI4-E with a stock coil. It seems like the crane website contradicts itself, so I guess i'll find out. Are you looking at the HI-4 or the HI-4E? I'll use the stock coil till it goes, then I'll buy the crane. I'm gonna use the HI4-E, this is the external box that mounts under the seat, not in the nosecone. Easier adjustment. As far as the powerlink, I didn't want to get involved with an ignition I need to hook up a laptop to fine tune...that's just involving more computers again. Plus it is mounted in the nosecone, which would probably make the wiring much more difficult. The crane site says it has settings for VOES/no VOES. If I decide I need it, I will just add one later. I'm still working on all the little stuff, learning as I go. What is your compression ratio? was your bike detonating? Just asking because of the octane booster comment. Justin (Message edited by x1rated on July 14, 2005) (Message edited by x1rated on July 14, 2005) | ||
| X1rated |
Ryker, got all my stuff today, and just so you know you were right, you do need to use a crane coil for single fire. You can only use the stock coil in dual fire. I wish their website was a little more clear on that. But waddya gonna do? On the upside, all the connectors are gonna work with the stock harness perfectly, and the ignition unit even bolts in the stock location for the ECM. Cool. Justin | ||
| Rocketman |
I run the HI4E in s/f mode with Crane coils. Yes it hooks right up to the S1W. Lovely piece of kit. Rocket | ||
| X1rated |
Agreed. I'm so far very impressed with the quality. Can't wait to get it installed!  Rocket, have you ever adjusted the rear cylinder timing? Just wondering if it's more for highly modified bikes, or if it might be beneficial. Justin | ||
| Ryker77 |
"Switch selectable single or dual fire. Initially the unit can be installed using the OE dual fire coil. With the purchase of a single fire coil such as the Crane 8-3001, the unit converts to single fire for smoother operation and increased power." You have to go to and read the install PDF files. I've seen the mini crane coil on Ebay for 100.00. | ||
| X1rated |
Yeah, the PDF files are the same as the instructions that come with the kit. Got the coil today at an independent, Buell friendly shop. Hopefully i'll be able to get all this done in the next couple weeks. I'll keep you posted. Let me know if you want part #s and such. I'm gonna try and take pictures as I go. Justin | ||
| Ryker77 |
sure post the part number here. And you can send the pictures to me and I'll upload them to my website then post them on a new topic "how to use aftermarket Ignition on X1" As I am sure this will be a common mod that other will follow. I think I am going to buy a older wiring harness off of ebay. Then things "should" be real simple. (Message edited by blake on May 09, 2016) | ||
| Rocketman |
Justin, I haven't played around with the timing yet. My intention is to tune her to the max on the dyno when I've finally run her in. I'll keep you posted. Rocket | ||
| Ryker77 |
I found a killer deal on twintec ignitions-- so I bought 5 of them! X1rated, how is the conversion coming along? | ||
| Ryker77 |
X1, tried to send you an email so I could get the part numbers and wiring diagrams etc etc that your using... But you don't list an email addy in your profile | ||
| X1rated |
Evilthing97@earthlink.net Sorry, I thought it was in there? Anyway, I got everything hooked up and the bike running again. All I can say is DAMN!!! This bike has never run like this! I set the advance setting on 5 out of 9. 9 being the most aggressive, and I went out and did a bunch of full throttle runs all the way to redline(which is adjustable now, by the way  )in 3rd gear (ran out of road). NO detonation AT ALL! Never experienced that before. I've always had detonation to one degree or another. The instructions say to keep going up on the advance settings until you hear detonation, then back off. Still gotta do that. I also did not use a VOES switch, it runs awesome, but i'll wait on that decision until I can get a full tank of gas through it using a moderate right hand(might be awhile)and see what my mileage is like. I haven't got the part #s or anything to you yet, CAUSE I'VE BEEN OUT RIDING!!! It only took me a couple hours, including making the harness and pulling the carb to play with the jetting some more. I'll get those part #s and such to you, and i'm also gonna start a new topic in the knowledge vault and put it all in there for future generations. By the way, with 5 ignitions on there, you sure will have a hot spark! Justin | ||
| Ryker77 |
thanks for the info. Awesome! I'll get around to adding the pictures to my website and cross link them here. I found out that the revtech igntions I bought are set at 5700rpm limit. I never race anyways and it will be safer for my 12:1 pistons. | ||
| Jimincalif |
Something that may help you: http://www.nrhsperformance.com/partsignition.shtml Go to the very bottom of the page. It's a $50 stronger-than-stock timing rotor for carb setups. Might be cheaper than stock, I dunno but in any case...if I was converting FI to carb... | ||
| Ryker77 |
I'll get that timing rotor. My x1 is allready running NRHS stage 3 heads. |
