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Benm2
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 08:36 am: | 
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Anon, build it with a side-valve flathead diesel. But give it MORE POWER!
Also, it currently takes only 4 cylinders to beat the 500 fours, and the Aprilia was certainly faster than the 500 fours with only 3. Also, before MotoGP allowed the 990cc change, the WSB bikes were dangerously close to the same lap times as the 500 fours, and some of those were twins.
The next generation Corvette still uses a pushrod motor, and yes, your motor still exceeds its specific output. It also has enormous titanium intake valves (2.2"!) to deal with the higher rev limit. Titanium rods, 1.8 ratio rockers, 11:1 compression ratio, CNC ported heads, yada yada. With a 4" stroke, it redlines at 7000 rpm, and makes 505hp.
Imagine those tricks in YOUR motor. Such a factory hod rod would go a long way to silencing the power critics. But please, please, please stop chastising CURRENT Buell riders who ask for more power! Is it too much to ask that the bikes be at least competetive with the current 600 middleweights? |
Rick_a
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 08:41 am: |
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Stand off towers or not...them towers are on the rim, man. |
Dsergison
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 09:32 am: |
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So, I can't have the power because of my different engine type?
sounds like time for a different engine type! :P |
Bomber
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 09:41 am: |
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this place amazes me -- to quote yet another bard, the internet at it's best!
thanks for the giggles, Tramp -- |
Dsergison
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 09:48 am: |
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for the record I own two Buells and X1 and an xb9s. I am passionate about each. I suppose to complain about the X1 shaking me to death is moot since they are no longer made. I do love the smoothness of the xb mill. the xb is the most awsome commuter bike.
It's only been recently that I have really come to bemoan the lack of power. since my first track day on my x1 this year actually.
I know it's all about making "real world" street bikes, not track days or club racing.
what's so bad about a honda rc51 or an ktm lc8 or a duccatti s4r type of engine? |
Motoboss2
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 10:29 am: |
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I own a '99 XI set up for track days, since I have more money in it than I will ever get out of it, it is mine forever. I have a '05XB9 that is ALL track that I race in CCS. I also have a '05 CityX which is major fun on the street, with attitude. Now to say I am a fan of Buell is an understatement, BUT. I, along with a few fellow riders, are planning an Alaska trip next year and I am in desperate need (?) of a dual sporter. Is the new Ulysses the next bike for me? To compete it better have mucho travel in the suspension, double the current fuel capacity, parts that can take a pounding and as usual, the Buell aggressive stance. Oh yea, and a real seat, for once. If these requirements are not met, KTM sure makes a fine 950 Adventure. If Buell is not going to compete the get out of the market.
Once again I ask. Is this the next bike for me.
I can't wait to see. |
Misato
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 10:46 am: |
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Wyckedflesh
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 10:51 am: |
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Rick_a, the front brake rotor is free floating. If you damage the rim enough to actually damage the rotor, your not riding anywhere anyways. |
Cruisin
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 11:28 am: |
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Rick_a
The rotors are mounted to the inner portion of the rim, not the outer edges. That's further in from possible damage. If the outer edge bends in, it won't affect the rotor unless it's touching it...at that point you're screwed anyway. Your original post indicated that any damage to the outer rim would cause problems with the brakes, but that's not the case. I think the confusion comes from what people are thinking of when they read the words "outer rim". If you hit something hard enough to bend the rim enough to mess up the rotor, I doubt you'd be riding home. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 11:37 am: |
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Thank you Mikel  .
"The next generation Corvette still uses a pushrod motor, and yes, your motor still exceeds its specific output. It also has enormous titanium intake valves (2.2"!) to deal with the higher rev limit. Titanium rods, 1.8 ratio rockers, 11:1 compression ratio, CNC ported heads, yada yada. With a 4" stroke, it redlines at 7000 rpm, and makes 505hp.
Imagine those tricks in YOUR motor. Such a factory hod rod would go a long way to silencing the power critics. But please, please, please stop chastising CURRENT Buell riders who ask for more power! Is it too much to ask that the bikes be at least competetive with the current 600 middleweights?"
Ben... I've already explained this to you...
The XB12 makes MORE power per CI than the '06 Z06. Yeah, it cuts the spark 200 RPM higher than my XB12, but if that's a problem for you LEARN HOW TO DRIVE/RIDE. On both the Corvette AND the Buell you do NOT NEED the upper end of the RPM range. The '06 Z06 just set one of the FASTEST LAPS EVER by a production car on the Nordschleife. Who the •••• are YOU to second guess the engineers that pull off a feat like that in a car that costs 1/6-1/2 of what it's competition costs? Unless of course you think that 200RPM makes ALL the difference EVEN THOUGH THE XB12 PUTS OUT MORE POWER PER CI...
One more thing... Maybe you just feel a little insecure on this particular subject, but I didn't feel that there was any chastisement going on in that post. Just facts.
One more thing... The XB12 DOES hand it to IL4 600's in the environment in which it was designed to. Why does everyone feel that just because a motorcycle isn't faster in a straight that it isn't competitive?
(Message edited by m1combat on July 20, 2005) |
Rick_a
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 12:24 pm: |
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Lateral damage, as in lateral run out...it wouldn't take much. That's what I'm saying.
(Message edited by Rick_a on July 20, 2005) |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 12:25 pm: |
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Ron (Motoboss2),
When you do it, please keep a detailed log and take lots of pics to share with all of us back on BadWeB. I'd like to do a trip like that too someday.
As to the Buell Ulysses, please, it's not a "dual sport", rather the Buell Ulysses is billed as an "Adventure Sport", yes akin to the "KTM Adventure" you mention, but maybe even closer to the KTM Supermoto based on wheel size. Of course some models of Adventure Sport bikes fall more towards the dirt side of the equation than others. The KTM Adventure with its 21" front wheel would probably be one that does.
Rather than "double the current fuel capacity", a better measure might be to expect comparable fuel range. For instance, the KTM Adventure is advertised to hold 5.8 gallons. KTM does not publish fuel mileage; if we assume the Adventure averages around 40 mpg on the road to Alaska, that would yield a max range of 232 miles. At 55 mpg (ten mpg less than currently advertised XB12 highway mpg), the Ulysses would need a fuel capacity of only 4.2 gallons to match that range.
So maybe the Buell engine isn't antiquated as some like to claim. 
Oh, the current XB12 Buell engine has more power too. 
Ulysses has no huge radiator or liquid engine cooling system to sustain damage or fail and leave you stranded either.  
But back to the comparison with the KTM Adventure, maybe a better comparison is to the KTM Supermoto? It has a fuel capacity of 4.6 gallons.
Interesting stuff, would be great to see a matrix showing all the adventure sport bikes and their various specs like wet-weight, load capacity, power/rpm, fuel mileage, fuel capacity, suspension travel, ground clearance. Hi Mike.
(Message edited by blake on July 20, 2005) |
Eor
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 12:33 pm: |
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Not a matrix, but a good comparison of the current offerings in the category...
http://motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_0505_adv/index.html |
Dsergison
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 12:48 pm: |
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"...One more thing... The XB12 DOES hand it to IL4 600's in the environment in which it was designed to...."
battletrax is not exactly the real world. :P
I'm not aware of any racetracks without at least a few medium straights.
I'm not aware of any racers running XB anythings, anywhere, handing any IL4's anything.
I think it's fair to say if there's a rider out there doing well on an XB it's because he's good, not because of his superior powerplant. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 12:51 pm: |
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environment for which is was designed does not include the track --
not arguing that many would love a Buell track dog, just that it wasn't designed for that mission |
Benm2
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 12:52 pm: |
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quote:Ben... I've already explained this to you...
Oh yer so smart! Read the post again, the part that says "The next generation Corvette still uses a pushrod motor, and yes, your motor still exceeds its specific output". Plus, I pointed out the goodies on the vette as a GOOD thing, in that they could be added to the XB. I wasn't second guessing anyone, I think the LS7 is a GREAT motor.
quote:Who the •••• are YOU to second guess the engineers that pull off a feat like that in a car that costs 1/6-1/2 of what it's competition costs?
Funny, you seem to feel qualified to do so to the engineers designing current Japanese sportbikes.
quote:LEARN HOW TO DRIVE/RIDE.
Like this?
You're just FULL of assumptions today. I hit the rev limiter regularly on the track, so don't tell me that extra RPM won't help. Also, it DOES suck to work like hell to pass someone in the infield to have EVERYONE but SV650's pass me back on the straights.
You're right, though. Anon was chastising no one, but certainly other's have. My apologies to anon. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 01:30 pm: |
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Sorry for getting a little worked up...
In any case, the XB12 still puts out more power/CI than the LS7. It's also proven to be very reliable.
I was using a bit of a round about path to get to the path of you bashing the LS7... You stated that "It redlines at 7K" - 200 more than the Buell. You stated something about the Buell using these technologies to be able to keep up with 600's... It ALREADY DOES and the valvetrain is NOT the limiting factor. It's piston speed and the melting temps of the materials involved.
Bomber -
"environment for which is was designed does not include the track --
not arguing that many would love a Buell track dog, just that it wasn't designed for that mission"
See... There's someone who gets it. If you want a "track bike" either buy one or turn your Buell into one. The XB was designed to dominate mountain roads. It does. <--- Notice the period.
"battletrax is not exactly the real world. :P
I'm not aware of any racetracks without at least a few medium straights.
I'm not aware of any racers running XB anythings, anywhere, handing any IL4's anything.
I think it's fair to say if there's a rider out there doing well on an XB it's because he's good, not because of his superior powerplant."
Battletrax not the real world? I guess that depends on how often you play follow the leader :P. It's EXACTLY the real world .
I'll bet those racetracks have more distance comprised of turns and short straights than long or medium ones .
I think you aren't looking in the right places.
WRT a superior power plant... That too depends on where you look (or more specifically, what you are looking for. Power is useless when leaned over... Not needing to shift saves time for acceleration.
Putting two and two together adds up to...
I'm not even going to say it again...
I'm also going to stop my portion of the hi-jacking of this thread .
PLEASE... back to the discussion of the new bikes . We can discuss the merits of the XB in it's current form elsewhere . |
Benm2
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 02:07 pm: |
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No worries.
I imagine the XB motor is matched pretty well; the top & bottom ends have similar limits. In fact, the XB12 has extra valvetrain rpm at its disposal since it uses the same top end components as the XB9. As you state, piston speed is a problem, currently with the bottom end. If that were to get "fixed", then the top end would require new tricks, like the LS7 uses.
quote:Power is useless when leaned over... Not needing to shift saves time for acceleration.
You sure? Tight corner into sweeper....
Topic? Sure. Not for me. Waiting still for XB1350R. |
Cruisin
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 02:28 pm: |
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Bomber said it right..."real world" does not include racetracks.
Real world = 
'nuff said.
Now, there are enough roads around here that are unpaved that would lead to some fun riding when this bike comes out. Lots of forest roads, etc. They're cleared of trees, but certainly not pleasant for a regular street bike (although call me crazy, I'll take the XB12R anywhere).
(Message edited by CruiSin on July 20, 2005) |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 02:33 pm: |
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I hear the upper end can go to about 8500.
"You sure? Tight corner into sweeper.... "
Well, if you can't put more than 100HP down without wheel spin then yes...
There... NOW I'm done  .
XB1350R... Me too . Hopefully in a V4 or V3 config . |
Cruisin
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 02:41 pm: |
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:-( If there's an XB1350R, I might just have to trade in...
Dammit! |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 03:17 pm: |
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And MY back yard ...
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=944+Lookout+Rd++86301&ll=34.441177,-112.491417&spn =0.128036,0.188029&hl=en
About as real world and "Buell Friendly" as you can get...
Try this one ....
First notice the scale... Then zoom in a little and follow the road ...
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.323070,-109.386063&spn=0.518900,0.752117&hl=en
Only a couple hours away .
DAMN it's good to live in AZ. I can run either of these roads at CHRISTMAS time if I'd like (well, the top of the 191 might be a little hairy) .
Oh... On that second link... Follow the 191N then take a right on the 180 which will bring you back down to the souther part of the 191 .
(Message edited by m1combat on July 20, 2005) |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 03:39 pm: |
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M1,
Please try using the \blue{"quoted text here"} or the \quote{quoted text here} formatting tags? I'm reading through your posts thinking you are arguing with yourself and sometimes losing.  |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 03:53 pm: |
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"I'm reading through your posts thinking you are arguing with yourself and sometimes losing."
That's what I thought too . |
Tramp
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 05:48 pm: |
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I thought you were acting out some tortuous internal dialogue, there, M1
Gonna have to call you "Hamlet", from now on...
(Message edited by tramp on July 20, 2005) |
Lake_bueller
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 06:06 pm: |
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Who mentioned the hard bags in the accessory catalog? Was there any mention of an on-bike GPS? Somebody in the XB board mentioned seeing something in writing. |
Motoboss2
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 06:07 pm: |
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Blake, Excellent and interesting points on the new Ulysses verses the KTM Adventure. I do think it would be of closer comparison with the Supermoto than the Adventure but I feel the Adventure is a more "all around" bike. As long as the fuel mileage is around 200 to 225 miles a tank and a suspension that does not beat you to death I would be very happy with the new Buell. Ok, maybe some hard panniers and a nice seat would be nice. As for a detailed log, you bet. I just returned from California and the MoTo GP races which I rode out and back to, and I tried the log book there. It's a tough thing to do. Keep a log for personal reasons is satisfying to one's self but there tends to be the loss of entries as you go along. Keeping a log to share will be a "responsibility" which, for me, should be an easier thing to do, I hope. As I have said, I am Buell through and through and the new Ulysses would make a fine addition to my garage. I'm hoping for the best. Thanks |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 06:15 pm: |
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http://maps.google.com/maps?q=cocoa,+fl&ll=28.365914,-80.758095&spn=0.018942,0.0 30088&hl=en
Here's my back yard. I know, go ahead and laugh. I live in Florida.
Though we do have lot's of dirt roads in places. That XB12X would be perfact for them.
(Message edited by cataract2 on July 20, 2005) |
Danny
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 06:42 pm: |
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One of the worst feeling bikes I've ever ridden (IMO) was a KTM Adventure. Seat like a plank, terrible vibration at speed, 36" (at least!) seat height on my 32" (at most!) inseam.
My point is that people who think the Adventure is an awesome bike *probably* haven't ridden one. Only seeing the spy shots I believe that whatever the Ulysses/Discovery is, it has to be better (for me) than the Adventure. As always, YMMV.
Danny
95 S2
02 V-Strom
What do I want this week? |
Rokoneer
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 08:49 pm: |
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Amen Danny! I too came away totally unimpressed after riding a friends Adventure, and I am a dual sport/adventure touring kind of guy! The majority of machines that I own, and have owned, have been on-off road machines. The XB is the only street only bike that I have. I had read all the hype about the Adventures and was drooling to finally get a chance to ride one and found it to be a totally uninspiring machine for nearly all the same reasons that you mentioned. |
Tommy_2stroke
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 12:57 pm: |
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Waitaminute...
Was I dreaming or did someone mention the proximate possibility of a Buell with longer wheelbase, 5 gal. of fuel, and an optional windscreen? And no, it doesn't need a V-rod motor. (If I wanted a V-rod, I'd buy a frickin' V-rod, fer chrissake! Actually, I wouldn't mind having a V-rod, but that's another story altogether). |
Xlcr
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 04:23 pm: |
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BTW, anyone remember that there are TWO new models coming. It seems that all these teasers and hints about the Ulysses are serving two purposes. On one hand, they are keeping a lot of buzz going with a minimum of advertising. On the other, they are providing a smokescreen behind which the other new bike is coming to market as a complete surprise. That is very clever! I can hardly wait to see just what it is. |
Xlcrguy
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 04:37 pm: |
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me too! |
M1combat
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 04:55 pm: |
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Same here .
I still believe that Buell used the first lump of HD buyout cash to fund the DDFI and the XB frame. The second I hope was used to fund the development of an engine . |
Chainsaw
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 08:12 pm: |
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I'm interested in seeing if HD has anything new and exciting, like a 115hp Road King Custom!
 |
Newfie_buell
| | Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 08:52 am: |
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Rick,
If you hit anything with your front wheel to deflect it that much I would think there would be a lot more damage elsewhere. After the seat hit your arse I don't think the kidneys would like it much either.
Just an observation!!! |
Wyckedflesh
| | Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 11:36 am: |
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Lateral damage, as in lateral run out...it wouldn't take much. That's what I'm saying.
You really need to look at the front rotor and how it mounts to the front wheel Rick. There is a good 1/4inch of spacing before one of the pins hits the rotor. If your bending the wheel that far, its not going to hold air. |
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