| Author | Message | ||
     Yohinan |
I am looking to get a lightweight (not ultra light) wheel custom made to my specs. Not looking to spend too much but I understand this will be a one off piece of my design. I am looking for someone not outrageously expensive and that does good work. Anyone know of someone I can contact? I will be in the So Cal area around September for good so if they are in that area great. If not I dont mind doing business over the phone as long as they are a reputable company. Thanks for all the help. John PS if they know Buells that would be even better because I am heading in a certain direction with this wheel. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
If you are looking for weight saving, you are looking in the wrong place. | ||
| Cmm213 |
Yohinan anything that will be made one off of your design will probably be pricey | ||
| Xlcrguy |
If you're not looking to "spend too much", fahgettaboutit. Either billet or sandcast with exotic materials, plus design and analysis time will set you back more than the initial cost of your bike... | ||
| Yohinan |
Ok, I guess I may not have gone into enough detail. Let me apologize for that. Actually weight savings with a race type wheel is correct. They get a lot lighter than the factory wheel. Yes I know they are already light. Second I know it's pricey. I was looking for something around 2k. There is no one that will produce a one off wheel for that? There has got to be wheel makers out there that can produce a one off design for me that can just punch in the numbers on their CNC machine and away it goes. A wheel blank goes for 400.00 I am giving them all the specs already. Anyone know of anyone now? I really don't see a wheel costing around 10k which is what a new XB costs from most dealers. Can a wheel cost that much? Yes, but not what I am looking for. Thank you again for the help. John | ||
| BadS1 |
Yes it can and I don't know how you'd have a wheel built that 1 can be as light as a XB wheel and 2 as strong.Hope you did your homework.The XB front wheel is if I remember right is already the lightest wheel on the market.That includes many aftermarket.Hard to beat and stay strong. | ||
| Roc |
Also considder getting tires changed, who will do it and risk damage to your wheel - what if it is damaged and also the ease of damaging a wheel on the road. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
You might contact Dymag or Perfromance Machine. Dymag are the premeir Carbon Fiber wheel manufacturers and PM are oft open to custom orders. PM probably won't be lighter in weight, but that is a guess. The only other 2 manufacturers that make wheels lighter then what comes stock are OZ and Marchesini, but the Marchesini are questionable when it comes to the weight difference. Both of them are European companies. I know of no other reputable companies that MIGHT make a one off, and your probably looking at more like $3grand even with you providing specs. | ||
| Tomzweifel |
Just the material alone for a billet wheel will have a comma in the price tag. Add to that about 20+ hours of machining at $40/hr or so, you can see where this is going. For about 1/10th that price you could join a gym for a year and shave about 20 lbs of the rider. For some reason nobody ever looks in that direction. It's always the bike's fault... (Message edited by tomzweifel on July 15, 2005) | ||
| Hogs |
Hey Tomzweifel, Good point I need to go to the gym, or just lose the extra baggage myself, LoL But there is alot more to the weight savings than body or mass weight,etc.etc... Theirs recipticating weight, not the correct spelling of course :-) , also rotating weight etc , and I forget the ratios for ever pound savings here the power increases, perhaps someone can tune in here with them figures?? | ||
| Alstroker |
I am an engineer and a CNC machinist and I can tell you from experience that there is no way that you can get a custom CNC machined wheel for $2000. Jesse James has CNC'd some wide rear wheels for his bikes out of billet and claims to have had up to $20,000 in some of them. | ||
| Jerseyguy |
To echo Tom's comment, the price to engineer and CNC a one off, billet wheel will make you cry. Several thousand easy. As a point of reference from TV, Jessie James said in a past episode that one of his billet CNC'd wheels cost $5k. That probably doesn't include the CAD design time or CNC programming time that you'd have to pay for a one off. I believe he said it was 65 hours of CNC time in the machine. There are pre cut billet wheels for sale that have a solid center which you can CNC to a shape of your own design. I've been meaning to look into the cost but haven't done so yet. Tom - $40/hr? maybe in the 60s. $70 to $80 is more like the going rate today. CAD design time is $75 to $105/hr. (Message edited by jerseyguy on July 15, 2005) | ||
| Bonesbuell |
Change front wheel = lose the great Buell braking system! | ||
| Olinxb12r |
Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Look at your front wheel, there is already nothing to it. Where are you going to shave weight? Even if you could shave a little weight the cost per pound would be out of control. If you want to shave weight take off the stock can and go to the gym like the other guy said. I've heard the Jardine is 13 lbs less than the stock. Is the real reason your looking because of the little rash that your friend put on the wheel? Just buy a new wheel and make him pay for it. | ||
| M1combat |
Trying to save weight on the front wheel will be VERY difficult. The un-sprung mass on the front of the bike is already eight pounds lighter than ANY other production bike (or so I've been told  ). Yamaha spens a LOT of money last year trying to remove 300Grams from their front wheel/lower suspension assembly. There's really not a LOT of ways to save weight on an XB (good thing it's already very light). I'd start with a diet and then lightweight engine components. Maybe some CF body work if you have way too much money. Next time you take your front tire off... Go to your local Honda shop and ask if they have any front wheels from a modern sport bike laying around. Your parts are a LOT lighter. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
I just weighed a front rim with bearings and it was roughly 9 1/4 lbs. | ||
| Newxb9er |
Yohinan, If you do get luck and get some quotes, let us know what people are asking. It would be interesting to know. In any case, the front wheel of an XB has been engineered, not just designed. If you have ever listened to Erik talk about how they are built, you would never want to go anywhere else. | ||
| Budo |
I don't rember exctly where I read it or what exactly happened but someone had changed the wheels on their XB and had handling problems. Something about the steering geometry being so radical and changing the wheel (gyroscopic effect) caused some instability (head shake). Be cautious here. Quite awhile back someone had put ultra light carbon fiber wheels on a Duc 916 the lighter wheel upset the stability of the bike causing it to headshake and crash. In fact someone had suggested that the ultra light wheels on the XB were required in order to stabilize the bike due to the radical steering geometry. Good luck. | ||
| M1combat |
"In fact someone had suggested that the ultra light wheels on the XB were required in order to stabilize the bike due to the radical steering geometry." Hmmmm... Doesn't sound "quite" right but who knows, I'm not physicist OR an engineer. I think it matters more where the weight is rather than exactly how MUCH is there. I think that the rotor in the ZTL system contributes about as much gyroscopic precession as the difference in weight between an XB rim and a "standard" rim does. Maybe even more, but Anony once jumped on me for saying that. In any case, I think that heavier "conventional" wheels contribute to stability. If you can find a way to reduce the overall weight, but move weight out to the edge where it will contribute gyroscopic precession but not un-sprung mass you have done some brilliant engineering (Also known as the ZTL system). | ||
| Kenny |
i can program anything in 3-D on surfcam, not really that much time if you have exact points. i have been a cnc machinst 14 years, i have made motor mounts for a new designed space shuttle for 25,000 so if some one paid 20,000 for a wheel they got ripped off. | ||
| New12r |
Look at the race teams, Factory wheels on the Buell!! That says enough for me. | ||
| Yohinan |
Ok confusion seems to have set in. Thank you all for those of you who put valuable input in. About the comments about the working out program. Thanks but I do two a days now. Cardio/morning Weights/Evening, so dont need any more but thanks for that suggestion  You know not everyone is on the larger side that rides these bikes. Also I am not trying to let out my design as to what I want to do with this wheel and as far as I know no one has made a rim along the lines of what I am trying to do. Anyway sooner or later in research I will find someone. Again all the input is appreciated. When I finally get this done it will be better than the original design. Yes I know it can't be done. John | ||
| Dana P. |
Always someone out there that thinks he can reinvent the wheel.lol | ||
| Benm2 |
With enough money, time, and effort, you could probably do the following: 1. Find out who made the wheel for Buell 2. Call them (probably in Italian) and ask them if they could do the modeling for making the wheel out of cast magnesium. 3. Convince them (see money, above) that you can pay the development costs, engineering fees, tooling fees, pattern costs, and licensing fees (Buell owns the patent, right?) 4. Get a production run of 100 cast magnesium front Buell wheels made. Keep one, sell the rest. When all's said & done, and all 100 wheels are sold, you might only be in the hole 10-20K. If you want to persue making one out of machined billet, you are taking your life in your hands. ALL production motorcycle wheels are engineered, the "custom" chopper wheels are just jewelry. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
IIRC The wheels are cast by Enkei | ||
| Yohinan |
Dana, Thanks for the words of encouragement from a fellow Bueller! I will gather my bearing and keep the flame's that I would like to fire back to myself. It's great to see your so open minded in your outlook that nothing can be improved on the XB (your comment about reinventing the wheel). Anyway you can be sure when I come through with this I will remember your name. John | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Yohinan, what kind of engineering background do you have? Have you modeled this wheel yet? Done the FEA to your design? | ||
| Metalstorm |
So let me take a wild guess here. It's not so much a lighter wheel you're after but rather a custom one of a kind wheel to compliment the looks of your bike. Am I getting warm? | ||
| Benm2 |
Without a doubt, the stock front wheel can be "improved upon". It just depends what direction you want to go in. Don't get your knickers in a twist. "Improved upon" could be looks, but I just assumed you were talking weight. To get lighter weight, you'll need to change materials to Magnesium. Magnesium is expensive, and doesn't have quite the same properties as aluminum. It also can corrode differently. Because of these characteristics, it isn't commonly used in production wheels. If you really want to know about current magnesium alloys, check out http://www.magnesium-elektron.com Buell Mo.Co. has done all the engineering work & slogging into developing that front wheel. While there may be 4 or 5 other reputable companies that make EXCELLENT forged aluminum or magnesium wheels that are pounds lighter than stock, they are all (?) designed around brake discs mounted at the hubs. Even if you are an engineer, its likely that these other wheel companies know far more about what loads will get transmitted by/thru the wheel. They would be your BEST source to have a one off made. If you really only want one, try Performance Machine. They should (I suspect) have all the goods for modeling the wheel & producing you a workable design. There's still the patent issue, tho. If you're just going for looks, and only for you, do whatever you want. I'm sure you can find a machine shop somewhere that can chew one out for you, if you can produce a drawing. | ||
| Yohinan |
Steve, No engineering background. Yes I already have the rough wheel made, needs refinements to be finished. Then I have to take it to whomever my manufacturer is going to be to make sure it will be structurally sound and hold up to the rigors of daily driving and track days also. Then I will have them reproduce it on a CNC out of whatever material they recommend. MetalStorm, Yes your getting warm. It will also have some goodies in the braking department too. I am looking to get it to weigh close to what the stock wheel weighs though, a little more or a little less I am not worried but it needs to be close. Benm2, Thanks for the input. The wheel will somewhat resemble the stock wheel but still look different. I am pretty sure that puts me in the safe zone and will not bring up any complications with patent issues. Plus it being a one off I dont really want to believe I would run into legal issues with Buell. You never know though. | ||
| Benm2 |
I think you're safe as long as you don't try to sell it. As far are checking whether its structurally sound, that could be a tougher nut. For parts already done, the limits for non-destructive testing revolve largely around looking for cracks & internal defects. (things like magna-flux, ultrasound, etc.) The other testing of FINISHED parts is, uh, destructive testing. Best way to confirm the limits, but sure can get expensive.... Still another way, used more & more these days, is Finite Element Analysis. To do this on your wheel, you'll need to produce a 3-dimensional CAD file of the wheel. That file can be fed into and FEA program to analyze stresses at stated loads. More advanced programs can do fatigue & impact analysis too. These cost BIG money. IMHO, though, you'd be better off leaving this project alone. The risks of f-ing up even your own front wheel are too great IF you're the only guy that goes down if it goes boom. As said, though, this is only my opinion. Use it at your own risk. You could get a forged magnesium rear wheel right off the shelf, I expect. Good luck! | ||
| Dana P. |
I hope you do succeed in you endeavor.But you had better of done your homework also.Taking in consideration the suspension,strength,etc.Will this upset the bike chassis???I'd hate to spend the money without knowing the out come and have a beautiful wheel that isn't gonna work possibly.I'm not doubting you.But you are coming to a board for answers and not giving to many pacifics to what its gonna be other then its close to the stock wheel but a little different. | ||
| Lonexb |
i smell double ZTL set up. | ||
| Dana P. |
Hmmmm that would be different.But not weight saving as Yohinan has applied | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
Plenty of XB's have been raced with non-stock wheels. So long as the wheel is sufficiently strong then I seriously doubt its going to do upset the handling at all. | ||
| Dana P. |
Yeah right Dyna.But then the Race bike are not running stock forks and brake and everything is dialed into the whole setup. |
