| Author | Message | ||
     Surveyor |
I located 20L of Mobil 1 Delvac 20w50 in a local oil suppliers. Straight away drained the swing arm and primary case ready to receive the liquid gold. When my oil arrived it was Mobil Delvac Special 20w50. I'm pretty sure this is a mineral oil designed for use in diesel engines. I've been using Rock Gold Synthesis four and the transmission doesn't like it. Amsoil and Mobil 1 are not generally available in Ireland what are my options? How about Duckhams Q20w50(mineral)? HELP my bike is on the bench and I've got no idea what oil to put in it!! ps. anyone heard of Castrol Syntec 20w50 and 75w90? | ||
| Ted |
i've got the Castrol syntec 75w/90 in my tranny, for about 600km now. It shifts better. Funny thing is i put in the castrol ,went for ride and no difference. Then next day rode and it was much smoother... | ||
| Whodom |
Paul, I can't find an internet listing for Mobil Delvac Special, only Delvac "Super". The "Super" is mineral oil. It's probably good stuff, OK to run in your XB as it meets diesel requirements which is what the owner's manual says you should run (if you can't get genuine HD oil of course). If you're stuck with it, just change it more often than you would change synthetic and you should be OK. Not familiar with Duckhams. I believe we have a few Buellers here in the states running Castrol Syntec. | ||
| M1combat |
I used Castrol syntec once then went to Mobil one. I didn't notice any difference between the two oils. Both are very good. Also, if you can get Shell oil, try "Ultra Helix" if you can get it in the correct weight... Standard fill in Ferrari's as I recall. | ||
| Rocketman |
Mobil 1 should be available through any branch of Halfords. They have Halfords in Ireland don't they? Mobil 1 should be your primary choice of engine oil. If you can find a dedicated motorcyle dealer that stocks Mobil 1 motorcycle oils (try a Yamaha dealer as I believe Yamaha distribute Mobil 1 in the UK) look out for Mobil 1 4T. That is the best one for your Buell and NOT the Mobil 1 V-Twin although it's a close second. I've recently switched my transmission oil after years of researching and it couldn't have been an easier choice. Do what many of the drag racing experts, after market transmission builders, specialist clutch builders etc etc do and use a quality ATF (auto trans fluid to you and I) in your transmission. It works great and Ireland should be full of the stuff. Rocket | ||
| Trojan |
The Mobil 1 that Halfords sell over here is not the Mobil 1 V-Twin that I think you guys get in the US. We tend to stick with Torco V-Twin 20/50 engine and primary oil, and this has always given us excellent service  | ||
| Rocketman |
I was referring to Halfords as a source for Mobil 1 used in the auto industry but not dedicated Mobil 1 motorcycle products. My reasoning being any Mobil 1, even their diesel variant, is better than no Mobil 1 at all. Personally I'd use any grade of Mobil 1 over anything else as my first choice. Whatever Mobil 1 is available was the point I was trying to make. My choice is based on what Paul Morgan of Illmor Engineering told me before his untimely death. Rocket | ||
| Tomd |
Hi I'm not 100% sure if you can get it in the UK or IRL but if you can, I would recommend AMSOIL V-Twin synthetic. I run AMSOIL products in everything I own with an engine, from a lawnmower to race cars/bikes. I have used it since 1978 with nothing but great results. My 2 cents, ehhhh Pence, Tom | ||
| Surveyor |
Guys, Thanks for all your thoughts. I have established that; Amsoil is not available in ireland or the UK Mobil1 delvac 20w50 is not available in ireland or the UK Castrol Syntec is not available in ireland or the UK Shell Ultra Helix - I don't know about yet. I have put Duckhams Q20w50 Classic mineral oil in both Transmission and engine for the time being. What the hell is everybody else using in the cultured part of the world? | ||
| Tunes |
How about Valvoline 20w50? Bel-Ray? Does Shell sell a 20w50? | ||
| Rocketman |
Shell Ultra Helix should be available through high end Shell service stations and Ferrari dealers. Andrew Page motor factors (head office: Leeds) I believe stock it too though I don't know how you'd get it to Ireland. Personally I wouldn't use anything by Duckhams in a high performance Buell. WORSE STILL I would not ride another mile with 20/50 multigrade in my transmission. The sheer properties offered are not on a par with synthetic motor oils or dedicated transmission fluids. I've recently switched my transmission to ATF - which is available anywhere. Automatic Transmission Fluids are used and recommended by after market transmission manufacturers as well as many drag racing teams. Such use has been published in several American magazines like Hot Bike and Iron Horse etc. For alternative motor oils available in the UK you could try sourcing AGIP locally to you (Ducati dealers possibly) and if all else fails call Demon Tweeks who ship worldwide. They stock all the Shell stuff and Mobil 1 plus an array of specialist performance and racing mineral and synthetic oils. The choice gets frustrating though so you need to do your research \ homework. Rocket | ||
| Brucelee |
Rocket, Do you use Mobil 1 ATF and if so, do you prefer it to Mobil 1 75-90 gear lube? Thanks! | ||
| Whodom |
Interesting thought on the use of ATF in the Buell primary/transmission case. Many U.S. automobile manual transmissions run ATF. Someone recently posted that they had written Mobil and asked them what was the best lubricant for Buell primaries/transmissions, and they recommended Mobil 1 MXT4 10W-40 motorcycle oil. Mobil pretty much markets this oil for Japanese and European water cooled bikes that share the engine and transmission oil. Has anyone here tried Mobil 1 MXT4 10W-40 in their primary/transmission? | ||
| Trojan |
Amsoil is available in the UK from Debben Performance. If you have trouble getting it we can do so for you. Bel-Ray is also available and we can get their synthetic or mineral products if you wish. We use Torco V Series 20/50W on road bikes with Torco Primary fluid. On the race bike we used Torco 5/40 fully synthetic engine oil with synthetic race grade Torco transmission Fluid (RTF). This never gave any bother at all on the racer, but I have never tried it on the road with the totally different riding characteristics. | ||
| Ejiii |
Another choice not mentioned yet is Redline oils. I run it in everything. Buell engine & trans, my van that I tow a lot with, even my off road bikes. It's been great for years. | ||
| Rocketman |
Bruce, I have with the recent rebuild of the S1W switched to ATF. I'd been running synthetic oils in the primary and experienced a multitude of clutch slip and drag problems. Of course that's more than three years ago now and back then I'd got through about three sets of kevlar clutch kits! Turns out after getting the correct info synth oil and kevlar plates don't mix. ATF does though! Well now I'm using Comma's high end choice which is a standard auto industry supplied lubricant - Comma ATF AQ3 dexron III spec. To be honest this 'which oil in the tranny' stuff isn't new to me and it still seems like a black art to me. In the late 70's and early 80's we went through this same scenario with Saab 99 Turbo's. One day we were told to use 75\90 weight gear oil. The next week we'd be told to use only Mobil 1 synth then the next year 10w 30 multigrade. No one ever knew for sure which was best but I can attest to a truck load of gearbox failures back then and man those 99T gearboxes were rare even then. Guess where there's one now sat on a shelf? Did I mention it needs rebuilding LOL Rocket | ||
| Brucelee |
Rocket, Thanks! Yes, this does look like a BLACK ART thing. I am tempted to use Mobil 1 or Amsoil ATF just for a try, although I am happy with Mobil 1 75-90 since my 250 mile initial change. Still, you are right in that many of the car manufacturers are using ATF in their manual gearboxes. Hmmmm, to have some real data on this would be great! | ||
| Spatten1 |
All of the Japanese engines run the motor oil in the tranny, and dinosaur stuff works fine. What would make motor oil fine for a ZX or CBR, but not for a Sporty tranny? Are the clearances much different in the HD tranny? Is there some other technical reason? | ||
| Pellis |
Paul, Hope this will help. I'm a dealer here in the US. I asked AMSOIL if they had a distributer in the UK or Ireland. Their answer is posted below. AMSOIL recommends SAE 20W-50 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil for both the engine and trans. https://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/mcv.aspx AMSOIL products are imported and distributed in the UK by Performance Oils Limited. Please contact Don at Performance Oils directly for information regarding products, prices, availability, etc. Don can be contacted by phone at 01598-752-782 or by fax at 01598-752-396 or by e-mail greenlynx@blueyonder.co.uk. Or by post at: Performance Oils Limited. Lydiate Lane Lynton North Devan EX35 6AJ United Kingdom | ||
| Blake |
Where did you find the rationalization to use hydraulic fluid (ATF) in place of lubricant in a gear driven transmission??? Is that a drag racer thing? I am personally very averse to using anything but a purpose built synthetic based tranny lube, one that contains those stinky extreme pressure additives. I know the factory now endorsed the use of plain synthetic engine oil in the tranny too. I guess I need to do some research on the EP properties of synthetic engine oil. It is hard to argue against the use of engine oil in the tranny when virtually all other manufacterers' machines do so. Call me stubborn. I like gear oil. Besides, it gives one a way to differentiate the two fluids should any sort of leak develop who's origin is not immediately evident. Stinky = tranny. | ||
| Rocketman |
I know the factory now endorsed the use of plain synthetic engine oil in the tranny too. Read on......... Where did you find the rationalization to use hydraulic fluid (ATF) in place of lubricant in a gear driven transmission??? Is that a drag racer thing? A mate of mine has a rag or two from your side of the pond researching into this very subject and rating ATF as a choice transmission fluid. Yes as I understand it it is also a drag race thing. Look what aftermarket transmission manufacturers Rivera Engineering say in their install guide (see step 12). Bandit Machine Works have some interesting reading posted on their web site too. FRICTION PLATE SELECTION All Sportster belt drives and Big Twin chain and belt drive clutches (except Sportsman Superclutch) Friction plates are available for these models in 3 choices of material: Kevlar (green), Alto (red), and Carbon-Ceramic (gray). Wet applications can use the Kevlar or the Alto, and dry applications can use Kevlar or Carbon-Ceramic. WET: We recommend Kevlar as your first choice in a wet application - Kevlar is very durable and consistent, and requires slightly less spring pressure than the red Alto for a given horsepower output. The red Alto is also very durable and consistent, but requires slightly more spring pressure for a given horsepower output. The main advantage with red Alto plates is that they are extremely free releasing under all conditions and normally tolerant of a variety of lubricants. An additional advantage is that Alto has a lifetime guarantee on their plates. NOTE: We recommend the use of ONLY automatic transmission fluid or Golden Spectro Gear SAE 80 Primary Chaincase Lubricant in our clutches. DO NOT use the HD oil or similar oils in the primary, especially with Kevlar plates. Using the HD oil will make the clutch drag and slip. ATF is inexpensive and works great, but can be difficult to prevent leakage in some bikes where the engine to primary case seal is not perfect. Golden Spectro 80 contains friction modifiers which actually increase the friction between the plates and allows the clutch to carry more power with the same spring pressure but is slightly higher viscosity than the ATF and can aggravate clutch drag in a bike with limited release travel. DO NOT use a full synthetic oil, these are often too “slippery” and will make the clutch slip. Two of the finest transmission specialists in the business I think you'll agree? Makes you think doesn't it - and it just goes to show it pays to do your homework. Rocket | ||
| Tomd |
Hi, I would caution about using a specific makers recommendation as a blanket statement for all applications. Notice in the text that they state "...in our clutches." ATF or Spectro may work well with their stuff however it may not with the stock plates. I would stick with what Buell says to go with. To continue on, they specify "ATF" not "Type-F", "Dexron" Dexron II", "Mercon", "Chry ATF+4" or any other brand specific types. "ATF" was the first one out and if I remember correctly, has no friction modifiers in it, Dexron was introduced to give GM cars "smoother" shifting. The same with ATF+4 for Mopars. The Chrysler service manuals states that ATF+4 has the highest amount of modifiers in it to smooth shifting in front drive applications. Smoother shifting = clutch slippage. I would question the durability of the transmission using ATF in this type of application. Automatics are full of clutches, planetary sets and pumps, all stuff that loves thinner fluids, crash-box style transmissions in the Buell like thicker fluids to cushion the impact of mating surfaces on the sliding gears. Drag racers use the thinnest fluids they can get away with but remember, they are most likely changed after each run, 2 runs at the most. Drag racers at one time were draining the gear lube out of the differentials to get a tenth of a second or two. That is until a few guys had them lock halfway down the track, roll the cars and then they changed the rules stating you have to put some kind of oil in them. So since I'm not looking for that extra 2 HP or tenth of a second, I'm going to run Amsoil 20-50 V-twin oil in my XB for both engine and trans. I have a 1200 Sporty that has used it since day one and it has gone 34,000+ miles with no issues, works for me. Just my 2 cents, Tom | ||
| Rocketman |
Trouble is Tom what you say is more than 'just your 2 cents' and that's the crux of the matter for me. The way I read these statements, what vested interest do these two manufacturers have in recommending a lubricant they don't profit from? These same manufacturers are very aware that their transmissions and clutches are going to be used by people just like you and I in their high mileage street Buells and Harleys. You think they'd risk recommending a lubricant that would see their products placed at risk of failure? I think not. Further, I would imagine their testing is rigorous to the end. Incidentally Dexron is a higher grade of ATF as I understand it with more sheer strength and higher resistance to pressure. I've heard nothing about noise suppression or more slippery when wet but then again I haven't been offered any substantial info as to what Dexron really means from a technical standpoint. I'd welcome more as I'm sure others would too. Keep us posted and thanks. Rocket |
