| Author | Message | ||
     Ryker77 |
My 02 x1 has andrews n8 cams, nallin xb stage 2 heads, force intake and exhaust, with pcIII. I am not happy with the PCIII and am wonder if other high power Fuel Injected Buells like the race ECM over the PCIII | ||
| Denfromphilly |
Well, I don't know exactly what all my bike has, some guy bought it and modified the motor and then sold it on consignment. The shop where I bought it has mechanic that's well know as a sportster head and he did a lot of work but can't recall exactly what. He thinks it's a .555 lift cam, heads, 10.5:1, we can see the race header, V&H, desnorkeled, larger air box hole, and the race ECM. All I can tell you is the throttle response is like nothing I have ever experienced. The 0-60 time has got to less than 3 sec's, simply breathtaking. It is easily the fastest thing I have ever been on and I have NEVER done a full throttle launch, too scary! I rode a Cyclone and it's very tame in comparison. I feel the race ECM works well enough that why would I want to do anything more? Den 99X1 | ||
| Chasespeed |
Funny, I was under teh impression that our X1s, came withthe equivilent of N8 cams.... I could be wrong.... Chase | ||
| Captainkirk |
Chase, The X1's come with the equivilent of N4 cams, not N8's. | ||
| Ryker77 |
The orginal owner told me that he had used a race ECM on the bike and it ran great. So the race ECM is the way to go. thanks guys.. | ||
| Rocketman |
Andrews N9 cams have .555 lift. I have them installed and I rate 'em. They are not a bolt in cam though. Rocket | ||
| Hotrodsportster |
Ryker 77 If you have the time to spend with the PCII, it will be superior to the race ecm. The software in the Race ECM, is a "compromise" that takes into account, variances in the manufacturing process. The PCII, along with time on the chassis dyno, will produce a fuel curve specifically tailored to your bike and it's specific needs. A couple of hours on a chassis dyno, along with a knowledgeable operator, will provide results that will out perform a race ecm. If you would like some additional information ping us. Good Luck (Message edited by Hotrodsportster on June 11, 2005) | ||
| Ryker77 |
I know that for max power the PCIII that is correctly tuned is the best. However I don't need the hassle of the pcIII and check engine light for just a few more HP. I've read some topics on this site and alot of guys had check engine lights every so often when using the pcIII. They were happy switching back to race ECM. For street use wouldn't most agree that the race ECM is better. | ||
| Chasespeed |
Ok, since I was wrong about the cams.... What is the hottest cam I can use witht eh race ecm? Sorry for the hijack, but since its being discussed......WTH? Thanx fro your patience.... But I can tell you the coughing and spitting and sputtering I am experiencing right now is driving me nuts, its almost like its running too rich.... Chase | ||
| Denfromphilly |
I was at Schaffer's HD in Orwigsberg? PA yesterday for the Buell factory rides. The Buell guys agreed that my bike has some kind of funky cam, it shakes too much for factory. The service guys reset the TPS while I was there and he thought it was some kind of hot set up. I did ride all the factory bikes and they are very tame compared to mine. They do handle better and the braking is comparable. The firebolt had the best seating position for my long legs. The 900 city x is so short my legs cramped up. The coughing sputtering etc can either be a TPS adjustment or the oxygen sensor. See the X Files web site for some really cheap replacements for the O2 sensor. The TPS reset on mine fixed a little lag at wide open throttle and a little pinging leaving traffic lights in the hot weather. Hijack away.... I can't answer the cam question since I am, in fact, in question about exactly what cam I have.... Whatever it is works good! | ||
| Ryker77 |
So nobody is running big cams, exhaust, intake with just a race ECM? All I need is for a few people to say that the Race ECM works for them. | ||
| Rocketman |
I think you'll find that most who go to the trouble of upgrading cams don't just swap cams and stop there save the race ECM you mention. Nor do I suspect is cam replacement the first place to start tuning. Then again, each to their own I guess. Rocket | ||
| Ryker77 |
I see what your saying rocketman. I just need to hear somebody with that is running a set up like mine with a Race ECM that it working just fine. | ||
| Chasespeed |
Well, it has a new O2(3rd in a month), and the 2nd TPS reset.... Its running much better than it did before(though nothing has changed since the original fix(first TPS and O2).... It runs like a raped ape when you get on it...actually, I cant even use the full range of the throttle through the first gear, sometimes even second... When I get on it, usually in 2nd, once it hits about 4600, the front wheel leaves the ground, starts to come down for the shift, then rises again.... This thing is a bear...DOES NOT LIKE TO CRUISE at low speeds, 25 or so...spits sputters bucks surges coughs....I mean jesus, once in closed loop though.... I lvoe this thing, quirks and all...jsut wish I new what to do with it...anyone have a carbed intake they wanna sell cheap? And the ignition module? J/king...for now... Anyway, dont knwo what else to do... maybe make it breathe a little better? I am runnign 93...kinda wanna try a lower octane, adn see it that cures anything..but dont wanna deal with detonation.... Sorry for the hijack.... Chase | ||
| Denfromphilly |
I got a lot of performance parts on my X1. I got a TPS reset on Saturday. The bike ran like a raped ape but pinged a little off the stop lights in the heat and had a little lag at snap WOT and I heard a reset would fix it. The first time the dealer gave it back on Sat it bucked and snorted missed and ran terrible. At wide open throttle it ran normally, like a violated ape and idle (in closed loop) normally. They messed with it for a total of 6 hours and gave it back. It runs better than ever. It took the lead tech, a couple other tech's and one was an X1 owner with mods and the race ECM. The way mine ran sounds exactly like what you describe. I don't know the magic solution they came up with but the combination of parts was hard to set up right. It had no error codes but the TPS voltage was always wrong after set up and rechecking. They finally got it to stay constant and it runs better than ever, no pinging, no lag, more pull and torque at mid range. Effortless acceleration. I did complain about the bill with 6 hours labor on a 1/2 hour estimate. They negotiated down to less than $100. Maybe you just need the right tech. Den 99X1 | ||
| Chasespeed |
I was actually thinking about replacing the tps, adn starting over..... I still ride the way it is, just coughs and stalls, or surges at the wrong time, slwo tight turn, pulling inot traffic... Anyway.... | ||
| Captainkirk |
Ryker; To answer the first part of your question; Yes, I'm running race ignition unit (NOT ECM, as my bike is carbed) with the rest of the race kit & Andrews N8's. (These are not "high lift" cams, rather, "long duration" cams) Now what was the second part? | ||
| Ryker77 |
Just trying to find out who is running a higher performacne set up without the PCII and is using the Race ECM. For Fuel Injection bikes. SAD. Sad thing is that will all the fancy ECM's PC, and sensors carb bike put the same power to the ground. I talked with Nallin and they recommend PC over race ECM. So I am going to keep the PC installed and wire up an A/F gauge and tune the bike myself. But as soon as I get some extra cash I'll be buying the parts needed to put a good ole carb on the bike. And if I get a chance to go to the desert "iraq" I'll have enough cash for the nallin 88 kit. My 1992 883 never gave me any problems. None. It ran better than my 1999 BMW r1100sa. (Message edited by ryker77 on June 14, 2005) | ||
| Blake |
Chase, Check for intake manifold seal leakage. | ||
| Ryker77 |
intake manifold for leakage---- would a spray bottle of soapy water be a good test method? or just try on a cold engine and feel with my hands? | ||
| Derektl |
i have a 2001 X1 with a race ECM and force intake and exhaust. It runs great for me, but I still more i was just trying to figure out what kinda cam to get also let me know what works for you if you get it. | ||
| Henrik |
Ryker; a search for "Intake leak" will net you all the info you need. Henrik | ||
| Chasespeed |
the only way I know to check intake seals woudl be to spray around them with carb cleaner, if the engine surges...well, bad seals...if not.. NOt the safest way, but definately works.... Thanx blake, was thinking about that earlier today while reading some old posts.... Chase | ||
| Koz5150 |
Chase, you may want to also try a 26 tooth front sprocket. You won't miss the top end, and it makes putting around town a little easier. I run one on my M2 | ||
| Chasespeed |
I will look inot it when I get home today Ken... Chase | ||
| Al_lighton |
Chase, Was the person that did your TPS reset each time the same person? Your bike should NOT be running like that, and an improperly set TPS will do it. Did they truly get the throttle plate backed all the way down prior to executing the procedure? If it is only 95% closed when they execute the TPS reset, the bike will barely run. If it is 98% closed, the bike will run but badly, about like how you've indicated. The throttle butterfly MUST be completely closed when that reset is done. It must go to a position that it NEVER gets to in normal operation. It seems plausible to me that, due to years of never going all the way closed, that something could obstruct it or prevent it from reaching that position, even if the screw was backed all the way off. If it were me in your situation, I'd clean the screw, the pivot, and even the likely gunked up surface inside the throttle body, and verify that that plate is absolutely closable. Then I would get another TPS reset, and ask to watch the tech do it, to ensure that he is doing everything to make sure that plate is 100% closed, prior to executing the TPS reset. This is why I totally dig the Technoreserach SW. I HATE having to rely on the dealer to do a TPS reset. Drives me friggin nuts! Al | ||
| Denfromphilly |
Yo Chase, I put the 26 tooth on my X1 last weekend and it really improves the driveability in town. You will notice the increase in torque too and not miss the top end. My speedo is off about 10% but perhaps this will keep me in less trouble with the radar police. The old way to fine intake leaks was to put a vacuum gauge on the motor and dribble a little bead of oil around a gasket. If the vacuum goes up the gasket leaks. Carb cleaner will work too but is lower viscosity and will wick all over, sometimes eats paint too. Den | ||
| Noface |
Ryker77, the cams in your bike are Andrews n80, as in N 8 zero not plain ol Andrews N8's You got a special bike. It's meaner than you think  I've ridden it. Spend the $250 and get it tuned right on a chassis dyno, and be afraid. Be VERY afraid. | ||
| Noface |
it's a good looking X for sure  | ||
| Ryker77 |
roger that Niner ate zero ...  timing duration lift andrews n80 cam. 66/30 276 310 .600 andrews n8 cam, 56/28 264 302 .500 Wow big  differnce in a wimpy n8 and the n80 When you rode the bike was it pcIII of raceECM? I put the A/F gauge on order and will order the Tech software so that I can ensure the TPS is correct. From reading the topic on using A/F gauge to tune - its just as good and I get to keep the gauge. I think most of the problems are due to the TPS not being set just right. At least I hope! | ||
| Denfromphilly |
I agree with Al, the person doing the TPS reset makes all the difference. When they did mine it messed my bike up big time, it took the head tech to get it straight. When he closed the throttle the voltage was off by .5V. They said it was because my TPS was unstable or loose but when they cleaned the intake and reset it the setting remained stable. The original tech reset the TPS at least 3 or 4 times and it still ran terrible and he owned an X1! Your symptoms sound exactly like the way my bike ran. Good Luck, it should run like a banshee! Den | ||
| Noface |
I rode it with the race ECM, and it was too rich, though it was probably better than the way it's tuned now. Daytona Twin Tec makes a wideband gauge. It runs about $400 with the new Bosch sensor. To me, it looks like the best one out there. Believe me, when you get that PCIII setup right, you'll be WAY better off than the Race ECM. There are other options like Megasquirt to keep the FI. I'd keep the FI, but that's just me. It's not an easy or inexpensive task to put a carb on an X1. It wery well could be the TPS is not set right, and it couldn't hurt to spend the $40 at the dealer to check it. | ||
| Chasespeed |
Thanks all....thinking I am gonna try another ANOTHER TPS, and check the intake gaskets... Chase | ||
| Hotrodsportster |
Now, if you really want to make the FI system run, get a MoTeC M4. You will have the ability to custom "tune" from 0 to 8,000 rpm. Spark and fuel both can be regulated by the M4. You will need to enlarge the throttle body, and possibly run bigger (higher throughput injectors), bit the FI will provide all of the power you can handle in a bike. The Buell injection parts are all for Ford, and have been proven on thousands of high performance street, strip, road race and land speed Mustangs. As has been stated above, it will cost a bit more to get it "right", but it is worth the effort. Enjoy the ride. | ||
| Chasespeed |
HOtrod, what is the lph of the injectors? Wondering, becasue I have quite the collection of ford injectors...from stock 19gph, all teh way to 34....(used to do mustangs, dont ask) anyway.... Chase |
