| Author | Message | ||
     Mikeyp |
All right, let's make it a free for all for christ's sake. I'm here, and been catching up on a weeks worth of posts. Nice debate, just like the old days. It's real funny when the "old timers" come out of the woodwork and blow the noobs minds. (i've been in and out of here since '97..) Anyway, Buell's suck! Naaa just playin'... | ||
| Rippin |
Anyone going to Homecoming or Road America next weekend and still need a place to stay see: Quick board/Who's going to Homecoming2005. Thanks Ryan | ||
| Brianh |
Interesting what you're feeling in those Metzlers M1. If you pick up the most recent Road Racing World they do a tire test on pretty much all the major brands. They found the exact opposite as you. Admittedly they tested 208s and not 207s but the Dunlops were one of the heaviest tires tested. The net result being that they soaked up bumps the best but held rpms slightly lower exiting turns. The Metzlers were very hard feeling and took a long time to come in. Not a bad tire, just a little too much feedback and not enough grip. I'm a Pirelli guy myself. They didn't score so great in the test either. Even though Steve Atlas posted his 2nd fastest time of the test on them at OHR. As for XB's and HP, I learned something about Buells today. The wheelbase being as narrow as it is really limits the amount of power one would want to have in the bike. You put more power in that chassis than what it's already got and you could start noticing the inherent stability problems that accompany a super narrow wheelbase. Perhaps that's one of the reasons why so many who've compared the two prefer the XB9s to the XB12s. Point being that to truly get as much out of your XB as possible, money is better spent on getting the suspension and handling right rather than going for the power. They are street bikes for sure. Not track bikes. To even attempt to make one a track bike the wheelbase needs to be widened.  | ||
| Eeeeek |
DAve! Been a while. Vik | ||
| Firemanjim |
Josh,thanks for the quick report,I look forward to the better pics.It's a 96" motor so I imagine there were some clearancing done.Expand on your"intersting mods to the heads".I think they are S&S?? | ||
| Firemanjim |
How's it going Mike?Ever get your cap from Henrik? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Brian... the D208 that comes from Dunlop is not the same as the D208 that comes from Buell. Not that I would ever run or recommend one on an XB to begin with, I am loving the Pirelli Scorpion Syncs. | ||
| Henrik |
Ever get your cap from Henrik? Nope - he didn't ... I'm holding the cap hostage until Mike makes it out to my place for some beer and a big fat steak  Henrik | ||
| Spike |
I skimmed through that article, it was pretty interesting. I'm always amazed at how fast the tire technology moves. It wasn't long ago that the Metzeler M1 was placing near the top of all the tire tests, now it's placing near the bottom. In any case, the M1 is a substantially better tire than the OEM 207. It's not just the traction, the OEM 207 has a very flat profile that makes the XB more difficult to turn in and makes it feel less stable when leaned over. Switching to any of the newest crop of tires will make a dramatic difference in the way the bike feels. I can't speak for the OEM 208 or the standard 208 since I've never ridden on them, but I'd be afraid to try them based on my experiences with Dunlop street tires over the past few years. I can't speak for Don, but I switched to the Metzelers a few years ago after reading some really good reviews about them and being somewhat horrified by the stock Dunlops on my M2. When I bought my XB I went through the same thing. The OEM Dunlops scared me again and the Metzelers were still getting good reviews. Six pairs of M1s later I've become somewhat loyal to Metzeler and I'm extra cautious about switching brands. However, I'm starting to hear some really good things about the Pilot Powers so I'm waiting so see what kind of mileage they offer. I may switch to a set of those next. Mike L. '04 XB12R | ||
| Djkaplan |
It's not just wheelbase that affects stability on a motorcycle. Rake, trail, cg, and weight distribution are factors too. I'd also reserve judgement on how a tires capabilities on the track translates to the streets. | ||
| Road_thing |
I'm having a hard time understanding Brian's comments about wheelbase. I think of wheelbase (the distance between the front and rear axles) in terms of "short" or "long", not "narrow" or "wide". In my mind, "wide" or "narrow" would make reference to the track dimension on a 3 or 4-wheeled vehicle, i.e., the distance between a pair of front or rear wheels. Obviously this wouldn't apply to a single-track 2-wheeler. Brian, are you saying that too much power on a "short" ( read "narrow" ) wheelbase would bring about the instability you mention? That would make sense to me, if I'm translating correctly from Brianspeak to Tomspeak... rt | ||
| M1combat |
I thought it was interesting how different their view was regarding the Metz M1's and the Pirelli Diablo's. From what I've heard those two tires are the same tire with a different tread pattern. Metzeler = Pirelli. I've never tried the Pilot Power's. I've heard they offer plenty of grip, but that the edge is very sharp. I've heard that the optimum slip angle for that set of tires is a little smaller than most others, but if you can keep the bike there, they will reward you. If you can't... They will break free less linearly than something like a Sportec/Diablo. The words used when I was talking about them is that they would "just let go just as you're really having fun". Like I said though, I haven't used them, so I don't know. Brian - Like Spike said, the 207 that comes on the XB is a very flat and wide 180... Someone here a while back took some measurements and found that the OEM D207 from Buell was profiled like a short and flat 190 instead of a 180. They caused instability mid-corner, standing under braking, and they squirmed all over the place. They were quite literally horrible compared to the Metzeler's. I'm a huge fan of RRW (I think I have about two years left on my subscription), but either they left out the details of their scientific method this time, or they didn't really have one. | ||
| Spike |
Something else I've noticed about the Metzeler/Pirelli issue- the Scorpion Syncs that come on the CityX have "made in Germany" molded right into the sidewall just like the M1s. | ||
| M1combat |
Yeah... Pirelli and Metzeler are the same company. I doubt it was always this way, but I'm reasonably certain that it is now . For the record, the Sync's look to have very close to the "correct" profile for a 180 as opposed to the 190 profile of the 180 D207. | ||
| M1combat |
"They are street bikes for sure. Not track bikes. To even attempt to make one a track bike the wheelbase needs to be widened. " Are you saying that you would immediately crash upon releasing the clutch on a racetrack on an XB that had power? I think you could tune around it by adding some compression damping to the rear and some rebound damping to the front. I could be wrong however... It's happened before once or twice. | ||
| Henrik |
if I'm translating correctly from Brianspeak to Tomspeak... Scary thought right there  Reminds me of the old story about one of the first computer based translators (quite possibly urban legend, but still ...): The test was going to be a 2-step procedure, where a phrase "The Spirit is strong, but the flesh is weak" were to be translated from english to russian and then back to english. Buttons were pushed, lights blinked, computer computed and out came the english-to-russian-to-english result: "The Vodka is good, but the meat is rotten"  Henrik | ||
| Djkaplan |
Cecil is bad about saying what he knows and showing how much he doesn't. | ||
| F1johny |
hmm lurking back here, wondering when someone was going to remember about Metzeler and Pirelli.... I rode my 98 S3 from Seattle to Grand Forks last june, 3 days of really rainy windy icky, and the Sportec's were AWESOME. F1JHNY {my license plate} | ||
| Eeeeek |
I don't think the M1 and Diablo Corsa are the same tire. I ran M1's on my street bike. They are a fine street tire and a horrible track tire. Vik | ||
| M1combat |
They used Corsa's? Sorry... I assumed that because they used Sportec's that they must have used Diablo's as well. If they used Diablo Corsas, then they should have used Metzeler Rennsports. Those two are comparable (and probably the same tire). Sorry for my confusion . | ||
| Paulinoz |
Henrik talking about translations in China recently a name on a Chinese Restaurant (what else would you find there) was signed in Chinese and under it an English translation. “Smart Nosh make you Slobber" No English speaking people to be seen so I don’t think the wording was working for them. | ||
| Mikeyp |
Yeah Jim, and i owe you a couple of t-shirts as well. Henrik.... Mmmmm...steak and beer. Let me check my calander, and i'll give you a call. I'd like to see the progress you made on the house. talk soon. mikey | ||
| Josh_ |
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| Josh_ |
more GT and FastLane pix | ||
| M1combat |
Yikes... That's a lot of very nice cars under that roof. | ||
| Rocketman |
I posted up some comments on the tyres you guys are talking about but for some reason the thread in question isn't coming up on my menu bar? Tire size and geometry As for Cecil, what he knows about motorcycles one could fill a book with. What he doesn't know - a bloody library. I'd wager Mr Buell finds Brian's XB wheelbase comments ludicrous and laughable given he's got the Japanese and Italian's wondering how he's found a sweet spot with such geometry whilst they haven't \ couldn't. what also does it say for those racing XB's or the fast street XB's such like those early XB's put together by some mountain dudes in CO. Brian, sometimes you are a total dork man. Consider this revenge for the last pile of crap you spouted towards me on the Borg.  Wheelbase my arse, hahahaha! Rocket | ||
| Lurch |
What about the contact patch differences between the pirellis and metzelers? I cannot believe this topic has not come up.....  | ||
| Davegess |
There are things happening on the XB that have not been talked about in public. Some of it is stuff that Erik and the Elves have figured out and would like to keep secret as long as possible. Some of it is coverd by airtight patents. Other stuff is known information that other manufacturers ignore or don't believe. I believe, and I certainly could be wrong, that if Honda could build a bike that would do what the XB does but do it better and cheaper they would build it just to show that they could. They will not build a bike that copies the XB however unless they can make the argument that it is better. Honda, after all, likes to believe that they know more about engineering than anyone else in the world. If they built a ZTL wheel system it would need to be lighter and work better than the XB's and this would be a very difficult task without going to magnesium or carbon fiber. | ||
| Hotrodsportster |
Lurch: How are things in your world? Still got the Hybausa? ANy chance you can make one of the NASCAR races in your part of the world this year? If so, let me know and I'll get you into the Garage. Ride Safe Tom | ||
| Blake |
"Contact patch"... now you're talking! |
