| Author | Message | ||
     Iamike |
Matt, One of the guys in our group just bought a V-Strom a couple of months ago. He absolutely loves it. He sold his Busa to buy it and has ridden countless other bikes, drag raced etc. | ||
| Bigj |
Vik: I don't think the No Win'n thing is a good analogy. I sliced through a few Buells, too. I still remember that one corner. You passed me on the outside like I was standin' still. I wasn't super flogging it, but still.  I will say this. I don't an R1150 GS would make a good race bike  | ||
| Eeeeek |
Here's the difference, M1. I like the XB better than the SV. I chose an SV for the reasons you listed and because it's an extremely competent platform. Dollar for Dollar, the SV makes more sense. You find me a class winning XB for $5k and I'll buy it. $5k is the amount I paid for my SV, which was a class champion bike. Now, If I can just learn to be a better rider... Vik | ||
| Superdave |
Bigj I bought a R1200GS a few weeks ago. Don't think it would make a good race bike either. | ||
| M1combat |
Wouldn't that depend on the class?  | ||
| Superdave |
Yeah, a Boxer class. Most likely "Joe" Boxer. | ||
| Court |
Interesting | ||
| Peter |
Race bikes? Let's get serious about race bikes   The Pete2 Dakar website is up and running  | ||
| Choptop |
GO Peter !!!! you crazy bastard. | ||
| Buelliedan |
You can have the best geometry, most powerful motor, stickiest tires, etc available but if YOU the rider don't feel comfortable on that particular bike you are going to be slow in the corners. Its all about confidence. To this day I am still less confident on either of my Lightnings than I was on my S3. The S3 just felt "right" under me and the lightnings have always felt squirley. So does that mean the S3 is a better track bike? Heck no, it was just better for me! | ||
| M1combat |
Agreed Daniel... However, if you get two people that are equally capable and comfortable and one is on a more capable bike, then there's a good chance the guy on the more capable bike will be faster. I say start with the more capable bike and just plain get comfortable ... JMO... | ||
| Firemanjim |
Unfortunately,for most people ,racing is a matter of economics,and the bike they can afford to race in whatever class they choose.The XB--and the tubers for that matter,are more expensive to campaign.I see some of the prices Vallejo is paying and see the problems Terry has in getting parts,so can speak from experience here. And in my own venue,find someone who knows about turbocharging a Buell/HD product and then get them to share knowledge----parts are scarce and expensive.I can go out and buy a bolt on 500+ HP kit for a Hayabusa,I even see complete bikes on eBay priced reasonably. Not gonna stop me from riding/racing Buells,but I was always different/stubborn/difficult. Vik and Chop are not bashing Buells at all.They WANT to race Buells!!They are merely pointing out the facts involved.Brand loyalty is a good thing but letting that blind you to the truth is not. | ||
| M1combat |
I'm not blind to the truth Jim... I've said many times that I agree that there are far better choices for the bang for your buck route. The bike in question here is an inferior platform to the XB. The XB is more expensive to campaign and I've agreed with that. The problem is when people try to tell me that the XB is an inferior platform. That's not true. That's the point I'm debating. Not price. If someone wants to go campaign a bike, they should certainly chose the one they can afford. If that's an SV, then so be it, I'm sure it's a capable bike (and I've said that before). It IS, however, technically inferior to the XB. | ||
| Henrik |
Vik; my take on the SV to XB comparison can unfortunately only shed light on the SV side. While I have an XB9R sitting in the garage, all I've done is push it a few feet back and forth The SV however; as a track day bike it has many things going for it: 1) cheap in purchase price and "appliance like" enough that you won't mind crashing it - and crash you will ... 2) crashes *really* well and stands up to track day abuse. Leave the motor alone and it'll last. 3) many parts (clip-ons, rear-sets etc.) are common with the GSXR bikes. The GSXR being one of the most common club racers, that provides an astounding array of aftermarket customization parts. 4) As mentioned before; the fact that both GSXR and SV bikes abound, you're much more likely to find replacement parts at the track. 5) people have been racing the SV since it came out, and there is a vast experience available for what makes these bikes tick. 6) price; you can find a used, track prepped SV for $4 - 5000 7) dialed in, the SV is a very capable bike and the pace you set is very much up to rider skills. An example: I went to STAR school at Loudon a year ago. STAR has a bunch of AMA racers working as on-track instructors; they know their stuff and are willing to share their knowledge. During that 2-day school, AMA racer Dean Mizdall was having fun with a few of my riding buddies. Both friends are *fast*. They both ride the Fast group at TPM track days - one of them consistently outrides all but the fastest guys there and during one session held off Glen who owns TPM. Anyway ... Dean Mizdal was riding in little circles around my friends; lazy passes on the outside of turns, looking back going through turns to point out the line to them etc. Dean was riding a bone stock SV650 - stock tires, stock pipe, passenger pegs - the works. 8) if you want to race, there are quite a few series and classes in which the SV is competitive. ... of course, uh, this winter I forgot about the whole water cooled thing and forgot to add anti-freeze  . Result: one freeze plug pushed out of the front head and oil contaminated by water/Water Wetter. There's something to be said for no/low maintenance air cooled, belt drive. That said I would love to turn my XB into a track bike. I miss the grunt and sound of my old S3. And while altering the XB to hone it for track duty is possible, the options available are somewhat limited as compared to the SV. I'm also not sure I'd like to crash my XB ... I realize this doesn't really contribute much to the discussion, but I didn't intend to. So there ... Henrik (Message edited by Henrik on May 19, 2005) | ||
| Mikej |
Sometimes the neighbors in the neighborhood count for more than what's in their garages. | ||
| Blake |
Hold that thought. On account of I'm still here.  | ||
| Firemanjim |
Not even meant in that way,Jerry.And you are like the rest of us--stubborn/difficult/different.Besides,I have been on those other boards and they are nowhere near as interesting. | ||
| Eeeeek |
Wow, so now M1 is saying in the XB area that Buell is being held back in FX by pesky rules (last I checked the rules regarding air cooled pushrod twins were pretty much unlimited) and that an unlimited XB could hang in superbike. So who here thinks an XB, breathed on by God himself, could hold up against AMA Superbikes? Vik | ||
| M1combat |
I didn't say that. Read my post... Better yet, I'll quote it right here... I'm not sure which post you are referring to so I'll post them both... ""unlimited engine modifications,that is straight from the AMA rulebook." I'll give you that one... Well, partially : )... I'm pretty sure they have a displacement limit : ). The rules that won't allow them to run with superbikes are that there aren't any rules to accommodate the air cooled pushrod twins... FX is the only "premier" class that allows what is needed for a Buell to compete. Also... As I recall, the FX Buells would have qualified upper mid-pack (like rows three through six) in the superbike class last year. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. No problem Dana... This is the one subject in which I don't mind feeding trolls. One note about Dave's comment too : )... The Buells haven't beat "Honda" themselves, as in the factory racing effort, but they have beat many privateer Hondas and some factory bikes. They were quite competitive in FX (and will be again for the rest of this year and next and so on...) and if Superbikes allowed Air-cooled twins with unlimited modifications, they would be nearly as competitive there as well. More of an "also ran" team at this point, but certainly not the tail draggers you seem to think they would be. You don't seem to grasp the fact that HP is COMPLETELY useless while at max lean angle... Due to this fact, handling becomes MORE important than power as long as you aren't TOO far off the mark. That situation also sets up good battles at "balanced" tracks. The IL4's would have the advantage on "straight" tracks, where the V-Twins would have the advantage on the tight technical tracks. "No,you get emotional,like I am talking about a member of your family" Uhhh, you are : )." And the other... ""Fact one Buell has not won a FX race against Japanese 600's." You are correct. It's the end of the world. You're obviously very young. You don't seem to have fully grasped the value of money. Honda has LOTS of it... Independent Harley dealerships do NOT. "Fact two Buell is allowed unlimited engine modifications the 600's are not." Well, that would actually be two facts if you had your head pulled out of your... Oh sorry, This is a family oriented site. I'll let that one go. In any case... Only one of those facts are true. The 600's are indeed NOT allowed unlimited mods. Neither are the Buells though. "Fact 3 Buells could not compete in any other class of racing against the Japanese bikes." Hengh!? That's because it's against the rules. If it weren't against the rules and the rules that were in place were fair then the Buell could compete. That's what rules, regulations and fairness in racing are all about. Look at the European GT Championship... Five or six different engine sizes (from 4L to 7L and that's just in the GT class) and it's GREAT racing... Get a clue please. "I guess in this starnge Buell world ,if you do not believe that the Buells are not the bestest bikes in the world y,you are bashing them." That's not the case asshat... unless of course if you pick up on the fact that the statement you made is a double negative . I've stated in this thread that Buells aren't a perfect bike... Why do you ignore statements like that and only absorb statements that you feel are derogatory towards you and the way you see life? It's because you have issues my friend... The FACTS are that you need to educate yourself on the finer points of racing AND starting an international money making company. How much did Honda race in the beginning? "There are alot more things in this world to get emotional about,a bike isn't one of them." One - Speak for yourself. Two - The proper term would be "passsionate", not "emotional". Please go get a clue... Then come back. Just because you can't see what the Buell is doesn't mean that it's anything less..." Now... Please explain exactly where I said that an XB could "hang" with a superbike. I believe I said that they wouldn't end up in last place by default and that they could have qualified. Also... Please point out to me where I said that the Buells are being "held back" by any rules in FX... I have NO idea where you're getting that from. Thanks in advance . | ||
| Eeeeek |
Here you go: "Simply because the rules wouldn't allow for the displacement needed..." The rules allow for 1350 cc for air cooled twins. How much displace is needed? 1450? 1550? 2000? At what point do you say enough? The limit for the I-4's is hard set at 600. Double that plus 150 is not enough for you so what is "fair." Vik | ||
| Turnagain |
Higbee Racing Will Return To AMA FX Competition At Pikes Peak new background for an old picreturning to lurk mode as well, but before I go... Good luck Pete! | ||
| Choptop |
Wow, M1, you finally got one thing right, eeeeek doesnt have a clue about racing... actually, I think it might be the other way around. So M1, how long and on what bikes have you raced? Can you point me to a list of your results? asshat? wow, thats a nasty word. Poking at someones word choice? Hey, I remember my first week on the internet too. finally... who'da ever thought Vik would be the new Cecil? hey M1, how about some cool-aid... Note: ya prolly wont get the joke, it goes back more than a little. | ||
| Choptop |
Also... As I recall, the FX Buells would have qualified upper mid-pack... read - lapped hardly competitive. } | ||
| M1combat |
"Wow, M1, you finally got one thing right, eeeeek doesnt have a clue about racing..." Yikes... I haven't said that or intentionally insinuated it. Sorry if you thought I was going in that direction. "So M1, how long and on what bikes have you raced? Can you point me to a list of your results? " I haven't, and no. It doesn't matter though, I seem to remember trying to make the point that the XB chassis is superior to the SV chassis (when you guys kept arguing about money). I think I made that point yes? As far as "competitive" I suppose we just have different ideas about the meaning of the word. Yeah, Cool-Aid is good... | ||
| Choptop |
Get a clue please. yep. Competitive means having a chance to win. The XB has a slim chance in FX, and none in any other class, if allowed to race in them. You started off trying to make a point about the XB and SV and now have branched WAY out from there. The fatal flaw in most internet discussions. how have you made any point? What have you pointed out that shows the XB to be superior to the SV? They are different bikes... different styles... and one of them is much more suited to be a race bike, thats the SV. Here's a hint, allllll of the people on this board that race say the same thing. We might know a thing or two about it. again, the XB is a fine bike. Its got alot going for it. It also more than a few things going against it. Might I suggest some seat time in race conditions on a variety of bikes before making such strong statements about their suitability and realitive "worth"} |
