| Author | Message | ||
     Ceejay |
I was hoping to raise the ride height in the back on my M2 has anyone done this with good, bad, don't make a darn bit of difference results? I was going to make a new front shock to motor mount and thought that it could change it as much as I needed/wanted it to as long as I didn't smack the mounting block. Partly cosmetic but would also quicken up the steering a bit. I already dropped the front as much as I can before the forks hit the bars. Been thinking about it for a while now, and thought I would throw it out there. | ||
| Lornce |
Ceejay, IMHO, You need to consider why you want to do this. You mention cosmetic considerations and I'm not sure I understand those. Are you having trouble with cornering clearance issues while racing or running on track days? I'd be inclined to leave well enough alone unless that's the case. Doesn't dropping your forks in the trees further compromise a limited clearance condition? Are you aware how increasing your rear ride height affects the rest of your front end geometry? Buell used to offer a factory engineered and approved for racing shock mount to increase rear ride height. If I were you, I'd go with that if you really need more ride height. | ||
| Ceejay |
I have heard of those, but never seen one anywhere, I don't seem to have any clearance problems running it like this-triples sitting lower on the forks, heck for a while I was going to run some clip-ons on top of the triples making the front of the bike down about two and half inches. raising the rear would effectively do the same thing, but I was not sure how it would affect handling never done it but it is a pretty quick mod, if I don't like it change it back in about 30 min. The part cosmetic was just because I think it looks better with the tail end sitting a little higher, not into the hyena look. | ||
| Henrik |
CeeJay; If you've already dropped the front end (raised the forks in the trees) as much as you say, raising the rear will further "quicken" steering ... not unlikely to cause some handling concerns - just something to keep in mind. That said, I bought a Penske Shock from Traxxion Dynamics and raised the rear of the S2 a bit. Just be aware, that if you raise the rear too much, you change the swingarm angle to the point where the anti-squat qualities of the drive train will pull the rear wheel "under" the bike and cause wheel spin when you get on the throttle hard. I'm sure Al at American Sport Bike can help you with a length adjustable shock as well. There's more to this stuff than just changing the look of things. Please be careful. Henrik | ||
| Bomber |
yikes, CJ -- yyou are a braver man than I -- altering the from geos that much must make for a very twitching bike, indeed! like Henrik says, be careful (and perhaps conisder a steering damper?) by my back of a damp cocktail napkin calculations, you are rapidly approaching the steering geometry of a shopping cart (where the front wheel wobbles all the time) don't mis-understand, I'm not making fun of you, but you could easily turn your bike into a really cranky old thing that was simply waiting for the worst possible moment to spit you off | ||
| Ceejay |
This is something I have considered, and as it presently sits, it seems to be set up rather well, but as you say twitchyness is something I want to aviod, I didn't know if anyone has tried this before, many lower thier bikes, and I have been dropping mine in the triples for a while now so I guess that the next step was to bring it up in the back, something that has been in my head a while, should probably buy an XB and be done with it huh? | ||
| Rick_a |
I've got my S1 raised one inch in the rear and dropped 1/4 inch in the front. Steering effort is nil compared to stock, ground clearance is great, there's only two things that have affected me negatively and I can get over both quite easily. One is that the bike tends to want to follow imperfections on rough roads more than it used to (like wheel depressions, big cracks, uneven surfaces, etc). I have no problem with that, I keep my hands on the bars. The other is slightly less rear wheel traction. The front feels supremely planted, but you either need to be a little easier on the throttle picking it up from a full lean, or put a better set of tires on it. The tension on the chain or belt will be different. It'll have to be left with a bit more slack than the factory spec due to the altered swingarm angle. Mine has always had a steering damper and I've never found it twitchy, and it still isn't now. It does not slide the rear with as much stability as it used to. I used to do huge crossed-up power slides for for fun, but it is much less forgiving with the current configuration. It snaps sideways way too quickly and with less control as before. This may or may not be a problem. S3's, S2's, M2's, and S1's run much more conservative steering geometry than the X1. If the X1 can handle it, so can they. The added benefit is lighter, quicker steering, a slightly more front biased weight distribution, and a ton more ground clearance. Oh yeah, it'll also lean over farther on the sidestand. | ||
| Henrik |
CeeJay; food for thought; I dropped the front of my SV 12 mm and raised the rear about 25 mm and it made a huge difference. That bike is pretty much track day only, and I'm still happy I have a steering damper on it. Traxxion Dynamics have been doing Buell suspension for some time. You may be able to call and pick someone's brain. I would OTOH be understanding if they're hesitant to divulge specifics unless you do some business with them. Henrik | ||
| Lornce |
CeeJay, My S1 was giving me fits on the track with limited cornering clearance and slowish steering characteristics that had me doing hang-off histrionics in an effort to keep up with my buddy Kahuna on his X1. I'd be hanging off to beat the band and dragging EVERYthing in the corners and throwing sparks all around the track... and when I looked ahead I'd see Kahuna riding as if he were taking a Sunday burble in the park. That really bugged me. Hmmmmn, I thought, K's about 40lbs lighter than me but there's more to this than just weight. I knew I needed more cornering clearance and sharper steering and I figured additional rear ride height would likely accomplish this. Now, I live in a Canadian cave and didn't know about Buell's available racing shock mount, so KNOWING THE RISKS OF EXPERIMENTATION AND GUESSTIMATION OF BOTH ENGINEERING AND METALURGY - AND NOT RECOMMENDING ANYONE TAKE MY ADVICE OR TRY LIKEWISE- I cut my shock mount in half at the base of the clevis and turned it around to reposition the shock eye mounting holes 5/8" forward.... then rewelded it. NOTE - I have NO idea of the shock mount's material and am still unclear of it's process of mfg'r (look at the clevis' joint with the mount portion and tell me how this was done?) Is it some space-age slick forging? I don't know. Anyhow, knowing FULL WELL I WAS EXPERIMENTING AND ACTING ON MY OWN WITHOUT RECOMMENDATION ANYONE ELSE DO LIKEWISE - I stick-welded the clevis back on with 3/32" 7018 rod, three passes per side, and low and behold it's still holding strong. But I think God likes me. Keeping in mind.... my crayon scribbles on the sidewalk estimated 5/8" at the shock eye translated to about 1-1/4" of additional rear ride height and roughly 1.5* sharper rake and perhaps a reduction of trail by .4-.5". Or sorta like the X1 chassis.... but without the bike's butt stuck 1-1/4" higher into the air. (remember this detail). Which is tres-cool at our local gnarly, twisty, tight circuit, where it now performs like a scalpel without serious ground clearance issues and increased steering precision allowing MUCH higher corner entry speeds. SV 650's, R6's? GSX-R 600's? Hah, I laugh at you! Bring 'em on. But, and this is a BIG BUT (not a big butt)... we have another local circuit that has a 5/8 mile uphill back straight with a couple kinks and a big hump at the top just as you're reaching maximum uphill velocity (135-140 on the S1) and I nearly saw God when the thing threatened to spit me off after a sloppy shift into top got a mild weave going that grew into a full blown tank slapper as the speed rose. (no steering damper) Backing out of the throttle cured it but it got my attention and taught me to shift more gently into 5th thereafter. So... it was cool to use the ground clearance and super-quick steering to get under the competition in some unlikely spots on the track... but it's probably not worth dying for. ymmv, Lawrence | ||
| Ceejay |
Now you guys are talking! Lawrence you have done exactly what I was considering, I was thinking if I moved the eye forward by about 1/2" it would get me about an inch in the back, which combined with peg relocators would get me some good clearance. I weld often but was probably going to make a whole nother one or just buy one-I have seen a couple floating around-probably for different bikes-S1 but they looked to have the holes more in line with each other thus moving the shockeye about an 1/2 to 5/8 forward exactly as lawrence described. Thanks again for letting me know it can be done! | ||
| Ceejay |
BTW I pretty much thought that everything here was taken with a grain or a whole lick of salt, so we are always acting on our own without recommedation from the others on this board,despite how good the info usually is. it is merely bar conversation without the wonderful distractions of women and beer. Once again I appreciate the sharing of knowledge. | ||
| Bomber |
CEE -- while you are clearly an individual blessed with that rarest of commodities, common sense, there are those in the electronic universe who would follow another's advise and then hold them accountable if they didn't like it later ;-} also, I think L was trying to pre-empt further handwringing from, oh, say, me! ;-} me, I'm wishing he lived next door -- I could then learn to weld from him! I love this place! | ||
| Ceejay |
Yea, I often get the eye roll from the wifey about my frequence on this board. The experiences, trivals, and knowledge abound. Common Sense is something I think that is slowly deteriorating from society, maybe we don't have time to think about what we are doing, too busy buying other things, don't talk to our parents/grandparents enough something, of course I got growing kids 5 and 1 so hopefully I can impart some thinking skills from all the mistakes that I made/will continue to make cause I never talked or listened to them either  | ||
| Rick_a |
I went by moving the rear shock mount location in the swingarm. The result was the 1" raise in ride height and 1/4" more travel. The Buell race mount is the best solution, of course, unless you're a cheap skate. | ||
| Ceejay |
well, I am a cheap skate, but sometimes my wallet actually has money in it and I'll buy something before the rest of my house-re wife, kids, dogs, beat up truck, lawn, take your pick get a hold of it.  | ||
| Rick_a |
Get your priorities straight, man! JK. | ||
| Ceejay |
Ric-as much fun as this is-buells I prefer sleeping with a woman over my dogs. Plus I have to set aside some money to get the kiddos on those cool little pocket bikes at least that is who I'm telling her they are for  |
