| Author | Message | ||
     Along4theride |
QUOTE-Motorcycles: They've always been dangerous, but now the death rate is skyrocketing. Are the new super-powered bikes the cause or are older riders to blame? We'll tell you what it means for your safety behind the wheel. GREAT, another slanted news story on Motorcyclists. I guess it'll be interesting to see what they have to say- this time. | ||
| Got1nut |
im not watching it. Im tired of biased reports. | ||
| Scitz |
Has anyone looked to see if people in cars with cell phones may be the problem? | ||
| Spiderman |
People in cars period! | ||
| Cyclonemaniac |
Guess they're running out of steam bashing gun owners. Now it has to be motorcyclists! Next thing they be creating a hype about will be older aged, gun toting, motorcyclists!   | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Unfortunately, The statistics do support that its older riders that have accidents. I don't have the stats in front of me but the reasoning is that people over 40 now have disposable income to buy bikes and there are a lot of new older inexperienced riders out there. The only real solution is for people to be very careful and good rider training. | ||
| Cerbero |
"We'll tell you what it means for your safety behind the wheel." here's what it means: RAARGH! Scary motorcyclist coming! Hide the women and children!  | ||
| Cowboy |
Newfie: I am happy you clearfied that statement,as I think I am the oldest Bxxxxxd on the board and ride about 30000 miles per yr. I think damn cell phones are to blame. Every time I have to dodge a cager I see one of the damn things stuck in his or her ear. If they put a age limit on riders, I will just have to become a midnite rider.HE HE | ||
| Aaomy |
think the problem may be the new found popularity of bikes.. hyped by orange county and such programs. i think this may have created a influx of new, in experienced riders. one that get the bikes because its cool. almost had the nose of my car taken off by a lady biker. following her husband. he signaled for a lane change. she changed and i skidded to keep from being hit. she never signaled, looked, checked her mirrors. if i hadent been watching she would have cut right into me. at the next light i was the one getting the dirty looks too..  they were both on brand new vulcans and you could tell, not that experienced | ||
| Cerbero |
i will concede that there are a lot of inexperienced motorcyclists out there (young and old alike)... and that they're more likely to be involved in accidents... but what i'd really be interested in learning is what percentage of auto drivers are injured (seriously or otherwise) when involved in an accident with a motorcycle (regardless of who's at fault)... i just find it hard to believe that automobiles are "in danger" from motorcycles. maybe someone can prove me wrong. (it wouldn't be the first time that has happened today.) | ||
| Koz5150 |
Most 40+ old new bikers (mostly male) think they are too proud for a MSF course. I know a guy here that just bought a Screaming Eagle Vrod as his first bike??? I really wish the US would adopt a scalled time limit for motor size. 1-599 cc's for the first two years then get whatever you want. I would love to see a resurgance of 350 and 400 cc bikes that people could ride. Contrary to most HD belief, 883 cc's and 500lbs is not a beginner/girls bike! Much like the average Harley community, new older riders never expand their knowledge and just go by what they see on TV and the guys driving around town. If it were a federal regulation, new riders would be safer, and companys could expand their product line of bikes. I see it as a win/win solution. | ||
| Koz5150 |
BTW - I am 99.9% of the time against regulation, but in this case it really makes sense. | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Thats an interesting comment "Who is at fault?" Regardless who is at fault in a bike accident its still serious as the rider will be injured. Could be minor or major injuries, its still injuries. I hope I did not offend with my previous comment but its a stat we use up here with our training program. Another one is that approximately 25% of all bike accidents are single vehicle - being only the bike involved. True Story - 2 years ago I was teaching a lesson to a small group of about 10 new riders. The average age of the group was 45 and I'd say 40% never rode a motorcycle before. Were were doing the "curves lesson" when a student approached me and told me "I now know what I did wrong?". I replied "What did you do wrong?". He told me that earlier in the spring he took his brand new Harley Dresser out and put it off the road on a turn.......Spring in Newfoundland means that there is still snow in the ditches so other than some minor scratches the bike was unhurt. He looked out into the woods in the turn instead of through the turn. That guy was a prime example of the demographic I referred to above. Inexperience does not only refer to ones ability to ride a bike but also ones ability to think and react to situations that only a bike will bring out. A prime example could be watching out for the cars that most of the time just don't see bikes. One of the things we tell students/new riders is that on the way home while stopped at a traffic light, if you see a bike in the opposite direction put your thumb up. All of a sudden the bike becomes invisible!!!! People don't believe this until they try it. I could go on this topic forever - don't get me started with the younger kids and how their folks buy them the newest repli-racer. | ||
| Koz5150 |
Here is a link to the article on MSNBC.com http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7806233/ It states 60% of the fatalities involve riders 40 and older. From the article "Margit Showalter's son, Michael, was 41 when he was killed on his bike. "Just because he can have a Harley and doesn't get the proper safety instructions, he needs to realize that he's endangering himself and his family," says Showalter. " I had a guy here at work decide to try and learn how to ride his new Sportster in his back yard. He sliped on the grass and gave himself a consussion. This happened on his lunch break. When he came back to work he had grass stains all over his clothes. The next day he didn't even remember coming back to work. (Message edited by koz5150 on May 10, 2005) | ||
| Lovematt |
If it really is true that new riders who are older are buying choppers/cruisers for the first bike...it could just be overwhelming them with the size, power, or handling (or lack of it in some cases). I just can't imagine jumping onto a OCC bike or FatBoy or some other cruiser type bike to learn on... | ||
| Gearhead |
It would have been so easy for NBC to mention MSF and or Rider's Edge training since they let Mrs. Showalter comment on her son's Harley. Track schools could have also been mentioned instead of several seconds of SQUIDS acting stupid!! Isn't it amazing how so many of us try to get folks straighten out on what bikes and riding are all about and in less than 3 minutes one guy can screw it all up!! | ||
| Koz5150 |
If a local resturaunt was good food they will develop a customer bas over time. If they serve someone a roach, everyone will know instantly. Bad news just travels faster... | ||
| M2nc |
I think the stats speak to the increase of motorcycles on the road mixed with inexperienced and unprotected riders. Too many people I talk to buy their first motorcycle with no experience and get a skull cap. When I tell them to get more protection, better helmet, riding gear, better gloves, they say no! When I press them why, they basically say because they aren't cool or their friends frown on full face helmets and riding gear. So here you have a new inexperienced rider, wearing a skull cap, here in NC it the law, a T-shirt and blue jeans. I have two friends that have crashed their Harleys, one learned his lesson and rides with better gear, one broken shoulder later, the other still rides with a skull cap even after his broken jaw. The sad thing is that both accidents happened at under 35mph. Every time I see a want-a-be biker, I steer clear and say a little prayer for them. I love riding and I want more people to join us for the ride, but we need to break the stereotype of the Biker, at least until a new rider gets the first 10,000 miles under their belt. Time is a worthless measurement here. I know allot of people with bikes in their garage for ten years and have not put 8500 miles on it. | ||
| Jlnance |
It states 60% of the fatalities involve riders 40 and older. I know this isn't the point of this thread, but it annoys me to see reports throw half the necessary figures around. Are 60% of riders 40 and older? That makes a huge difference in what the quoted stastic implies. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Cowboy My dad has you beat as a old Bueller. Dad was 78 today has a 03 XB9S and 99 Sporty sport set up for about 90 hp | ||
| Koz5150 |
I think time is the only thing that could really be measured though. It's not like the DMV could check the odometer of every bike to track a single persons milage. I am against helmet laws (different topic), but I am all for teaching people how to ride safely and properly. I think part of it is society's fault. (your gonna love this) I hate the fact that people make kids wear helmets, knee and arm pads when riding their bikes. On lesson you don't learn that way is that if you ride like an idiot you will get hurt. They let their kids play video games that show fighting and killing, but the child never really grasps the concept of actual human damage. And don't even get me going on the never spank your kids thing... I don't beleive that every life on this earth was intended to survive till 90 years old. It may be unfortunate, but no one ever said life in America was fair. If you want fair and equal, go move to China. Ask yourself, would you rather survive in a protective bubble your whole life, or actually live and experiance this world? I ain't no bubble boy! So what does it all mean? Well, if people are stupid enough to crash a big bike they don't know how to ride, I have a hard time feeling sorry for them. All I can do is try and protect myself from them as best I can. (in otherwords, stay away from the HD open house when they close the beer tent!) | ||
| Phat_j |
koz, i think the graduated license thing is great... it works in europe, why not here? i'll tell you why not here......... cuz this is the land of hardley-ableson.... and what do they have to offer under 600cc? the blast... and thats it....... no chrome money to be made there... | ||
| Littlebuggles |
Mandatory rider ed course for licensing? Misdemeanor w/mandatory overnight at the county lock up for those with out mc license? Most of us would get pulled over more if the public wanted to make these things happen. As a "jailer" I don't like the idea and as a motorcyclist and citizen I don't really want to see ANY new legislation, there are so many laws not adequately enforced there just no point of putting new ones on the books. As Honda said so well, "Stupid hurts". Now the nightly news is telling the population how dangerous motorcycles are (when gas is at an all time high). Stupid could hurt the mc community too with too much bad press or foolish riders. They ought to be running a spot on the amazing versatility and fuel economy of many bikes on the market and how much safer they are when you take a rider course, reminding the public to be aware of the bikes out there. Take a class, any fool can ride in a straight line (if he can get the bike out of the back yard that is, Koz, I hate to laugh at someone's misfortune but that's pretty funny. I guess he wanted a softer surface in case he fell down?) I took several MSF courses, things I learned there kept me alive numerous times, I then taught the classes for several years. If you can't learn from the class it's because your aren't paying attention. I think if we could get dealers to push the class the community would be much better off (as long as the courses available are being taught right). My two cents -Mike | ||
| Along4theride |
What about when they reported on the sportbike group??? That was pretty positive. They said they had over 200 members and hadn't lost one cuz their focus was on safety. Out of all the stats that were reported regarding older riders I thought it was pretty cool to point out safe sportbike riders. I found it odd that the report was 'focused' on the older riders riding machines that were beyond their capabilities, yet they kept showing guys on sportbikes doing wheelies. Then talked about the 'stunnta' club being safe????? Definatly mixed messages to the non-rider. As far as actual stats went that was pretty interesting. I didn't realize that the average rider age had increased that much, nor did I realize that the death rate of older riders was so high. I would have expected the younger inexperienced guys to be leading those stats. edited to say I saw the actual broadcast on NBC and haven't seen the MSNBC link that was posted. (Message edited by along4theride on May 10, 2005) | ||
| Koz5150 |
I have spoke with dealership employees about the class and they do take a loss by offering it. Paying qualified instructors for weekend time, maintaining bikes, getting stuck with the bikes later... this list goes on. BUT, think in the long run, the dealership develops a relationship with the students and they are customers for a longer time. Dead people don't buy bikes... | ||
| Midknyte |
"They push 200 miles per hour" When is this going to be put to rest? | ||
| Hans |
An older first time biker, lifelong accustomed to drive cars with automatic gearboxes, since years with ABS, never "reading" the road with its pavement, will be simply over asked when there are several sudden changes at once. The same for younger bikers, but older ones need much more time, before good reaction patterns has been build up. Tires, brakes and handling of bikes and cars became better and better, but the gap between them still exists, and becomes, maybe, even wider. I would never, ever, advise an 40 + person, without extended two wheel experience, to start motorbiking.  Hans | ||
| Jmartz |
Were the results of this study or observation adjusted for population in order to make it comparable? For instance Shawn Hannedy frequently states that our president got the most votes of any previously elected republican president. This is a useless statement as there are more registered voters now than in 1862 when Lincoln was elected. Same for the gospel fact that H. Aaron is the home run king of baseball. Fact is home runs per carer is not comparable. Babe Ruth ha 700+ batting chances while Aaron had over 1000. Given the popularity and increased number of motorcycles, any comparison to previous stats needs adjustment. A larger number of accidents or fatalities today is a meaningless figure w/o adjustment for comparison. The government when comparing buying power frequently uses terms like "1967 dollars". | ||
| Buelluk |
Hans is right, I was 40+ when I bought my XB9S eighteen months ago, I have been riding on and off since I was 16, i had a bike license in the UK and i have one here in the US and so I understood a lot of the pitfalls and dangers ,even so ,my Buell caught me out a few times in the first few weeks until i reigned myself in. I also agree that Harley shouldn't be pushing the sportster as a learner bike, thew way the HD TV commercials are designed it makes it look like any doofus can get on a V-rod and ride it well. All I can say is read the road, look as far ahead as possible, slow down in urban areas or near anything that looks like a driveway and buy Twist of the Wrist | ||
| Bomber |
Hans -- while you have a good point, I think (nope, I KNOW) that there is no age cut-off for learning -- the rate at which one may learn very likely lessens with age, but I know of a couple of 40+ new riders (punks!) that are doing just fine, thanks -- although the numbers support the older, re-entry riders being over-represented in the stats, they ain't all going bellie-up, nor is the majority doin so (if I'm doing the math right, always suspect with me) learning is living, sez me! ;-} break break who's at fault is an interesting mental excersize -- recently read an interview with Neal Pert (sp? drummer for Rush), whose MC Obiwan taught him to think that every mishap, every near miss, every bad surprise that happens to him is HIS fault for not being more aware a little extreme, clearly, but another interesting way to view the entropy we call the public thoroughfare, yes? |
