| Author | Message | ||
     Elyaswolffxb9s |
I loved the old kind, used it in my primary and engine. I have switched to the M1 75-90 for the primary (Heard the new stuff had additives that did not agree with the clutch) But I am coming up on a change for my engine oil and I am a little dubious if the new M1 will perform like the old stuff. The label states it has a much higher detergency concentration... this is probably what is bad for the clutch. Does it have any other nastys in it like the dreaded friction modifiers? Or giving M1 the benefit of the doubt is it actually better for a high temp, high performance engine? | ||
| Norrisperformance |
I run Mobil 15w50 in both, no problems. | ||
| Whodom |
Elyas, From what I've read, they've increased levels of some additives in the new formula 15W-50 that, if anything, will make it better for your engine. It has some moly in it (which is technically a friction modifier) but it actually has less than the V-twin 20W-50 formula which is specifically designed for Harley/Buell engines AND transmissions. If you check out this thread: http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000408 you can see a detailed analysis comparing the new formula Mobil-1 15W-50 with Mobil-1 V-twin 20W-50 and Harley Syn 3 showing the levels of all the additives that they test for. If you've already switched to M1 75-90 for the primary (which is what most people on this board seem to run) why are you worried about whether the new 15W-50 is bad for your clutch? | ||
| Cataract2 |
Well, I just did an oil change today with the Mobil 1 extended use 15,000 mile oil in my parents bikes. I haven't changed my Buell's yet, to early. So, I'm using my parents HD's as test beds for it.  | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
I received the following reply from a representative at Mobil oil when I emailed a question concerning the use of Mobil 1 gear oil in the tranny. His reply is geared more towards the big twins though. "Mobil1 V-TWIN 20W50 motorcycle motor oil can be used in all three compartments however, Mobil has seen that for maximum protection and performance we would recommend Mobil1 V-TWIN 20W50 in the crankcase, Mobil1 MX4T 10W40 in the primary and Mobil1 75W90 gear lubricant in the transmission." | ||
| Elyaswolffxb9s |
To Whodom: Haha sorry I was not clear. I am not going to use it in my tranny, since I like the 75-90. But I was Wondering it was ok to use in the engine. Thanks guys! | ||
| Whodom |
Elyas, Friction modifiers are only a problem for wet clutches. Hugh | ||
| Xtopherj |
"Mobil1 V-TWIN 20W50 motorcycle motor oil can be used in all three compartments however, Mobil has seen that for maximum protection and performance we would recommend Mobil1 V-TWIN 20W50 in the crankcase}}, Mobil1 MX4T 10W40 in the primary and Mobil1 75W90 gear lubricant in the transmission." Just to make sure... the XBs still only have two places for the slippery stuff, right? | ||
| Buellman39 |
Yes, engine case and primary | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
Yes, my reference to the big twins is that the big HD's have three separate oil systems, in which the above statement refers to. I replied Mobil 1 rep ( Matt) and explained the XB is similar to the sportster in which the primary and tranny are unitized, this was the response I received today: "If your motorcycle utilizes the same fluid for the transmission and primary the Mobil1 MX4T 10W40 motorcycle motor oil is the best choice." I'm really at a loss now. Everyone here seems to like the 75 90 gear oil, I'm just a bit leary of it with the clutch. | ||
| Whodom |
Greg, Hopefully the Mobil 1 rep is completely ignorant of Sportster engines. Most Jap bikes literally share the same oil between the engine and transmission and MX4T is recommended for them. The Sportster-type engines, while "unitized construction", don't actually share the same lubricant in the engine and transmission, but the factory recommends that the same type lubricant (20W-50 engine oil) for both. Whatever you put in the transmission (Mobil 1 V-twin 20W-50, Mobil 1 15W-50, Mobil 1 75W-90 gear oil, Syn 3, etc.), based on what I've read on this board, it seems the clutch will be OK. | ||
| Brucelee |
"I'm really at a loss now. Everyone here seems to like the 75 90 gear oil, I'm just a bit leary of it with the clutch." Been using this since my bike has 250 miles on it. Non-issue, the clutch and trans are great! | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
Whodom, I believe that what he ( Matt from mobil ) was refering to is exactly that, the primary AND the tranny in our case is sharing the oil. The MX4T is lower in silicon, so I'm guessing they feel it's more compatible with the clutch, and can be used in the crankcase, ie, jap bikes. As for the XB, its' an air cooled v twin, and they ( Mobil ) developed thier Mobil 1 V twin with properties ( high in moly for one )they feel are best for these engines. They do not recomend the Mobil 1 V twin for use where the clutch is concerned, ie our primary. This is why he refernced the MX4T for the primary, and not the crankcase. So, based on his response, I gather he (Matt from Mobil 1, the guy who responded to my email sent from the Mobil 1 tech support page ) He said that they recomend : 20-50 Mobil 1 V-twin in the crankcase, 15-40MX4T Mobil one in the primary/tranny. IF we had the big twin set up, he recomended the Mobil 1 75 - 90 Gear oil in the tranny. Obviously they will not recomend it with the wet clutch system. YES I KNOW, many here use it, and Wa-la, no reported problems. I say , fine. There are many things we do to our bikes, and they still work... doesn't mean it's the absolute best way to do it though. (Oil analysis doesn't show that much diff, ? ) (Message edited by deerhunter17 on April 28, 2005) | ||
| Vaughn |
I think DeerHunter17 has the right synopsis from Matt. I have been running M1 V-Twin in both chambers for about 1500mi (M1 15W-50 before that, and Dino before that). Just recently switched to Amsoil 20W-50 V-Twin in both chambers. I notice the clutch has better bite when disengaging than before (less slippage). I also notice slightly less valve-train noise from the engine as compared to M1. I think the moly could be an issue with the M1 and tranny usage. While M1 works in the tranny (just like M1 gear lube works), it may not be optimum for performance or long term use. Honda specifically states no moly in tranny with wet clutch. I think the Amsoil is the best I've used in this bike so far. BTW: Amsoil 20W-50 V-Twin is also meets API GL-1 gear lube viscosity requirements. | ||
| Whodom |
Deerhunter- Isn't MX4T 10W-40? I wonder if anyone here has used it in the primary/transmission. BTW, Mobil does specifically recommend the V-twin formula for wet clutches (as well as transmissions and primaries). From their website: "Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 engine oil is also designed to provide the proper frictional characteristics necessary for wet-clutch engine/transmission systems. " | ||
| Whodom |
Vaughn- Good to hear about your experience with Amsoil. I believe it used to go for about ~$5.50/quart, but the latest word is they have completely reformulated it, supposedly making it much better than anyone else's lube, and it's now ~$8+/quart (see one of their myriad of websites for info). | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
Yes, MX4T is 10 40. For that reason, a I am not going to use it. I like the sound of the Amsoil. As for the Mobil 1 v-twin saying it is okay in the wet clutch system, On the bottle it says to refer to your owners manual to be sure it is compatible. | ||
| Ronlv |
this oil thing gets more and more confusing how about each person just write what they have in their bike today and how they like it and maybe we can figure it out from there i have the stock hd stuff for now(untill 1500 miles then i will change to something, dont know what yet) so far i dont like it, changing gears is clunky, everythings noisey, cant find neutral cant wait to get it out thanks, ron | ||
| José_quiñones |
It's not that confusing. HD obviously recommends their own oil. However, they also state that if "Genuine HD Oil" is not available, a CF Diesel rated oil is acceptable The old "Red Cap" Mobil 1 15W50 is CF Diesel Rated. The new "Gold Cap" Mobil 1 15W50 Ext. Perf. is also CF rated. You should have no problems using it on your HD or Buell. | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Whodom Thanks for the link, great info. Not that this applies, but years ago I put 80 w non syn gear lube in my YZ 250. Because it was all we had at the shop. The clutch would not disengage. | ||
| Whodom |
For those of you who're interested, here's the snipped motorcycle oil comparison from www.bobistheoilguy.com:  This is an analysis of fresh oil of each kind, and shows the amounts of the additives they check for. It's possible that there are other additives present which aren't checked for. Also, this doesn't show what the base stock for each oil is, which could make a big difference in the oil's performance. | ||
| Whodom |
For those of you who're interested, here's the snipped motorcycle oil comparison from www.bobistheoilguy.com:  This is an analysis of fresh oil of each kind (Mobil 1 15W-50 extended performance, Mobil 1 MX4T, Mobil 1 V-twin 20W-50, and HD Syn 3 20W-50), and shows the amounts of the additives they analyze for each oil. It's possible that there are other additives present which aren't checked for. Also, this doesn't show what the base stock for each oil is, which could make a big difference in the oil's performance. You can spend hours reading the posts at Bobistheoilguy and begin to get some clues about what makes a good oil, but this stuff is pretty dang esoteric. To REALLY understand it, you probably need a PhD in tribology. | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Whodom I found this info on the link you gave. Air filter testing, I thought K&N did more for ya. www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm | ||
| Justiceleague |
some guys also add roil to there oil it suppose to make the oil last longer. i have not tried so i dont know seems a bit expensive | ||
| Typeone |
Norris, nah, K&N's only real plus is that you can clean it over and over. I think its a big myth that their filters flow TONS more air. I still feel they prob flow a little better than stock paper filters (depending on the design) but as far as all the horsepower increase stuff you read in their literature, hmmm, whatever. I run one in every vehicle I own though, its a solid product in my book. Just ain't gonna work majik for you if you know what i mean. (Message edited by typeone on April 28, 2005) | ||
| Hkwan |
So I guess the verdict is that both Red cap and Gold cap can be used on the XB's? | ||
| Odie |
Typeone, before last month I would agree with you. Dropping in a K&N has never really did much for me as far as seat of the pants goes but.......just bought a Denali XL with a 6.0L and dropped the K&N in and it made a huge difference. So much so that my wife noticed! That's amazing. Biggest difference I have ever felt. I'm with you though on working magic.... | ||
| Whodom |
Hkwan: Yea, I guess the bottom line is that Red Cap was good and the new Gold Cap is slightly better. On the K&N air filters- I had seen an extensive post on the subject on an Audi newsgroup a few years back. The post was by a maintenance dude for a large construction company. He thought K&N's would potentially save them lots of money since they were reusable. IIRC, he tried one in a work truck (~3/4 ton pickup) and one in a piece of construction equipment (diesel). They routinely sent in engine oil samples for analysis, and changed the oil on the basis of the analyses. After switching to K&N air filters, the amount of silica in the oil samples rose significantly. His conclusion was that the K&N's didn't filter nearly as well as the stock paper filters. Since I doubt if any of us go off-roading with our Buells, that's probably no biggie for us. But I don't think I'd put one in a car or truck I planned to put a lot of miles on or that I drove off-road on a regular basis. | ||
| Typeone |
I don't want to completely hijack this oil thread but the K&N comments interest me also... Odie, I hear you, I think it all depends on the OEM filter design and material whether you will see gains or not. For instance on my last bike - Honda F4i - I think I remember that some tests were done where it was found out that the stock filter flowed extremely well compared to aftermarket filters. I still dropped in a K&N just to be able to reuse it. Whodom, thats some interesting input also. I used to only use well oiled foam filters (UNI, etc) on my dirt bikes back in the day since dust was a major concern out in the woods but from that boboilguy comparo it seems the foam doesn't flow as well (?) which could be a concern on street vehicles. Prob all pretty moot in the end  | ||
| Cataract2 |
I've been running a Mobil 1 filter as a test run for the last oil change in my Buell, When I do my change which should be soon I'll determine if I'll continue using it. | ||
| Brucelee |
Can you give us the number of the Mobil 1 filter? Thanks | ||
| Cataract2 |
Mobil 1 MT-103 | ||
| Hkwan |
Someone has done filter study (by cutting open different brand of filters and examing the weld, filter, filter area, etc) from the Subaru STi forum and concluded that Mobil 1 filters are not as good as Purlator's if you were to go with OEM replacement. I am wondering if Pure One has a filter for the XB's? | ||
| Cataract2 |
Got the number for the Purlator filter? | ||
| Roadrage |
Purolator Filter: L14476 |
