| Author |
Message |
    
Norrisperformance
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 05:01 am: | 
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I’ve had the bike on two different dynos with the settings
dialed in on the tfi right now. One dyno a/f was 13.5 and the other
was 14.1 . Checking against this info gauge reads 13.5.
Checking in third or forth should be fine.
Ok here’s how I would do it.
1) Set pot one per instructions or just set it a
@ 4 to start with
2) Set pot 4 @ 8 ¼
3) Record a starting place on 2 and 3
4) From a rolling start @ 2500 hold wot until 4000
stop and record avg. reading.
5) If bike ran lean increase pot 2 one clock position and record.
6) If bike ran rich decrease pot 2 one clock position and record.
7) Repeat steps 4,5and 6 until desired a/f is met and record.
8) From a rolling start @ 4000 hold wot until red line
stop and record avg. reading.
9) If bike ran lean increase pot 3 one clock position and record.
10) If bike ran rich decrease pot 3 one clock position and record.
11) Repeat steps 8,9 and 10 until desired a/f is met and record.
12) run bike @ cruise 3000 for a while, stop and shut off.
13) Repeat steps 4 thru 11
Now have a base line ran on the dyno to confirm.
You want have to pay for the tuning you already done it
and if you decide to do some mods, like wrapping the exhaust or cutting the airbox,
no problem just tweak your settings.
PS:
Pot 2 controls fuel below 4000
Pot 3 controls fuel above 4000
(Message edited by norrisperformance on April 09, 2005) |
Hogs
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 08:51 am: |
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Opto,
So IF I understand this right , unhook the o2 sensor from the ecm, hook up this unit that Norris is using or one like it to the o2 sensor, and Now the readings will be stable and with either a Tfi or Powercommander we will have a steady light or gauge to take our air / fuel ratios ( should be Steady readings ) and they should be right on or as good as the gauge we are using? Only thing is that the check engine light will be on but as you say no big deal, do the dial in and then reconnect the wire... So if thats all A ok then we got the sucker dialed in, all hooked backed up will the ecm relearn the new settings over the ride, ( or is there nothing for the ecm to relearn as the TFI just changes all after the ecm anyways ) and be happy with all,?? maybe I`m still a little confused to say the least...:-)) Please anyone Chime in here on this...! |
Norrisperformance
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 10:24 am: |
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The gauge reads voltage coming from the sensor and not resistance.
the gauge is tied directly into the sensor wire.
So unplugging it from the bike or ecm, would have very little
effect on the voltage if any at all.
Hogs, I think it’s just the characteristics of the narrow band sensor. |
S2pengy
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 01:12 pm: |
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Is there anything special about splicing oxygen sensor leads????? |
Hogs
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 03:28 pm: |
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Norris, Yeah your right there but if you unhook the o2 sensor all together then I Believe as Opto explains up above that wd. be the way to dial in the Tfi or power commander,What do You Think about that???
S2pengy not sure on that , but if thats all it does is read voltage i don`t think it matters as long as you know... you make a good clean splice etc.etc. |
Opto
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 04:20 pm: |
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Hogs,
I was just suggestting that as an experiment for those who wanted to learn more about the TFI, to see exactly what each pot does. I would stick to what Norris said. I don't think what I suggested would actually help you dial it in because the ecm will put in O2 corrections in closed loop as soon as you reconnect the O2 sensor. For WOT (open loop) setting up it should work fine, but then there's no point in disconnecting the O2 sensor because the ecm basically does this anyway in open loop. Hope this is not too confusing, if it is, just disregard. |
Hogs
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 04:27 pm: |
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Hey Opto,
Its all so confusing this fuel Injection at this point , all I know is I need something that will give me a handle on the fuel/air ratios not just at wot but everywheres, without breaking the bank which i don`t have, and there are no dynos here in my neck of the woods, just wondering if that unit by edelbrock with its own o2 sensor that I cd. install in the header where the two pipes collect and take readings from there wd. be better or still only under wot...:-) |
Norrisperformance
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 04:29 pm: |
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I could be wrong, but I think unhooking the 02
is a bad idea. I rode a couple hundred miles
today, and the gauge does a good job.
Even @ cruise you can get an idea of what the
a/f is, even tough it's jumping around.
@ wot it works great.
S2pengy
The gauge comes with quick connectors, so you don't cut or strip any wires. |
Hogs
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 04:32 pm: |
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Heres a thought, On carb bikes, the way I understand it is... (1.) If it spits back through the carb its LEan while cruising, (2.) if you give it a shot of gas at idle and its slow to return back to idle its also on the lean side,
(3.) Hmmm If on the Fat (rich) side if well this a good question but I think if while riding at you hit it and it falls on its face its probally Rich, What other signs of rich except the plug readings do you or anyone else know???? Thanks But all might not be the same with Carbs To Fuel Injection? |
Hogs
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 04:34 pm: |
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NOrris,
Hmmm Whats the web site for that unit again Sorry Bud... |
Norrisperformance
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 05:05 pm: |
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http://www.speedshop.org/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=129 |
Hogs
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 05:09 pm: |
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Thanks Bud... |
Hogs
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 08:00 pm: |
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Probes and Quick Coupling
AAEN Heavy Duty probe
Our heavy duty ptobes are custom designed for AAEN, with stronger wire and a special tip designed for consistant reading.
TGT14714 $39.00
EGT Tech Quick Response Probe
Exhaust Gas Technologies supply the top teams in NASCAR, NHRA & INDY as well as AAEN, with quick response probes.
TGT4018C48RW $59.00
Quick Disconnect Coupler
(Use when you don't have time to unscrew the probe when removing the pipe) Price includes 1 male & 1 female end.
TGT14721 $14.00
Installing EGT Probes
The exhaust temperature gauge is powered by a thermocoupling probe mounted in the exhaust pipe.
1 pipe per cylinder (1 Probe per cylinder) - Mount probe 10" - 12" from piston.
2 into 1 (2 Probes) - Install the probes in the "Y" as close to the junction as possible.
2 into 1 (1 Probe) - Install the probe in the pipe 2" beyond the coupler.
800 - 1100° Too Rich
1100 - 1300° Good Mixture
1300° F. and Up Too Lean
Something else that might work as well ,..! |
Craigster
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 08:27 pm: |
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The exhaust temp is a good measure of engine's activity, but unfortunately the temps vary quite a bit depending on distance from exhaust valve and cam duration (along with exhaust system performance).
For example I've seen 4-strokes pull 1400 deg F temps at WOT which is supposed to lean but the AFR was only 13:1.
My thoughts I guess are: If you can correlate the EGT to AFR on the dyno then the EGT is a cheap and reliable way to gauge tuning. |
Hogs
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 08:40 pm: |
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Interesting Craigster,
Yeah I guess placement would mean alot, But I wonder if there is a certain location that wd. be ideal perhaps once again where the two pipes join into one on the header, may be a spot , this just may be a good unit as well to go along with the a/f gauge just a thought... |
Tatsu
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 10:13 pm: |
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Excellent job in detailing how to set things up! |
Opto
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 07:39 am: |
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Hogs,
Just ride your bike. If there are problems ask. The stock ecm on an XB12 handles a Drummer or Buell pipe no worries, so if there are no probs with how your bike runs just keep ridin' it and have some peace of mind, forget AFR's ecm's TFI's just ride it and be safe. |
Hogs
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 07:55 am: |
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YEah,... thats good to say Opto And I agree with ya on simple MODS 100 percent , BUT when one starts going into more MODs where ppl here have not Done , there will be no answers, Like throwing a Force Can on a stock 12 HEader, for one that I have done now, Seems ok but who knows, if I`m a tad on the leand or rich side or more than a TAD for that matter, and I don`t want to grenard this sucker yet, Plus other mods as head work etc. etc later on...Just picking ppls. brains here thats what its all about... |
Norrisperformance
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 10:21 am: |
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I was talking to Bob Cashwell the other day.
He's a sales rep for DragSpecialties. He said
a buddy of his put drag pipes on a new twin cam
and didn't do anything to the fuel.
Toasted the motor in less than 500 miles.
I'd get the air fuel checked after installing the pipe. |
Opto
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 08:49 pm: |
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Hogs, OK, sorry I misread your question, proly the single most useful thing you could get for tuning then would be a wideband O2 sensor kit from innovate or techedge, cost around US$400 or less, one of these would do what you want no worries, Jerseyguy is running the innovate one, the techedge is here:
http://wbo2.com/2c0/default.htm |
Xbolt12
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 12:30 am: |
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Norris,
What was your target voltage when setting the TFI?
xbolt12 |
Xring
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 01:24 pm: |
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S2 and Norris:
While I don't have any specific experience on Buells with A/F gauges, I messed with them quite a bit on turbo Shelby Dodges. I and many others found it was best not to use the quick-connectors when attaching the wires. If not immediately, then eventually due to corrosion, you lose enough voltage to affect the gauge readings. Some of us picked up one light on the Cyberdyne LED gauge by using a dedicated ground straight to the battery, and by soldering our connections to the O2 wire. In other words, the gauge was registering slightly more lean than it should have.
Hope it helps,
Bill |
Hogs
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 02:30 pm: |
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Xring, Now that could be intersting to know,
Thanks Bud... |
Hogs
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 02:33 pm: |
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Tell ya the truth I was thinking that might happened, But where it sends out voltage rather than reading a resitance , etc.etc I thought that wdn`t be a plm, Good to know |
Norrisperformance
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 02:33 pm: |
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Thanks
The instructions say ground to battery when ever possible,
so I did. I also taped the connectors, so maybe they will be ok.
It reads very close to what showed on the dyno.
You make some really good points.
I might change the connectors.
Xbolt12
.875mv is 13.5:1 |
Tatsu
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 03:24 pm: |
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Hey Norrisperformance..
What gear are you in when u do those runs?
Thanks |
Tatsu
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 03:29 pm: |
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Norrisperformance...
Also how do you wire that thing up? I'm very interested in picking up one of this units. I like to also figure out how to change my analog speedometer to a digital readout. I saw a picture of a bike that had one a while back. |
Norrisperformance
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 07:45 pm: |
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3rd and 4th
Not a lot of difference between the two.
You end up about 110 mph in 4th.
In 5th I ain’t looking at no gauge
above 4000.
The bike needs help in wind protection
department at high speeds.
That, and the can’t see the fuzz in the fuzz mirrors
is my biggest complaint.
Oh yeah, if the fuzz is reading this
ALL TESTING IS DONE @ THE TRACK.
Here’s one way you can do it.
Check below 4000 in 4th
Check above 4000 in 3rd.
One wire goes to the sensor.
One wire grounds to the battery.
One wire goes to the accessory fuse.
The gauge Velcro’s in place |
Tatsu
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 08:30 pm: |
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Excellent thanks for the feed back.. will be ordering one soon. |
Xbolt12
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2005 - 12:37 am: |
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Norris,
If you decide to use factory connectors, Buell uses GM weather-pack connectors which are available at NAPA. I can look up the part number if you want it or you can search early TFI threads under my name where I specified the part number.
I like what you've got so I will be putting one on my bike maybe with those connectors, although with the TFI, that would be a lot of connectors, so maybe I'll just solder and heat shrink it instead.
xbolt12 |
Norrisperformance
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2005 - 04:37 pm: |
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xbolt12
The new tfi comes with an oem style harness.
You just plug it up.
No cutting or splicing, makes it very easy
to install.
Thanks for the info on the connectors.
 |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2005 - 07:02 pm: |
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"Buell uses GM weather-pack connectors which are available at NAPA"
How come all mine say Ford? |
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