| Author | Message | ||
     Eexb |
I could use some advice - I've had my XB12S for a few weeks and ridden a couple hundred miles. Traded a V Rod for the Buell because I wanted a lighter, sportier, better handling MC. As you all know, the XB12 is all that and more. About the only problem I have w/ the Buell (except for that "pesky" electric fan) is it's TOO DARN QUIET !!! I'm ready to get a better sounding exhaust right now, but my dealer won't guarantee that they will honor all warranty claims if I change the exhaust, even if I go w/ a Buell race kit. They say there could be the possibility of warranty denial in some instances. Also - has anyone gone to the trouble to keep their complete stock XB12S exhaust system to put back on the bike in case of a warranty claim ? Is it worth the hassle, or should a guy just go for a better sounding exhaust and not worry about a possible warranty problem ? Give me some opinions - have a lot of you gone for better sound and performance and said the heck with worrying about warranty ??? I appreciate any input, thanks, Emery | ||
| Xb12_ohio |
Emery I have the 12R and changed to a Jardine RT 1 , Yes I kept the stock pipe , but I don't beleave that it voids your warenty as I had my stator replaced at 10 k and now again at 12 k and no one has said anything about my warranty not being covered. Although I have been told that the Teclusion TFI installed voids the warranty. Joe | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
You need to find a new dealer. Using the Buell race kit does NOT void the warranty. Just another Harley dealer who is completely full of S**t. Nothing new there:-). You can check for yourself with Buell customer service: 1 414 343 4056. I have the race kit on my XB9S and I really like it. A little bit more grunt, and now it sounds like a motorcycle instead of a lawnmower. It isn't the loudest thing around, but I live in a small village, so that is just the way I like it. With the XB12 it is a slightly different story. Because the stock muffler has an active valve, and no other muffler does, it is hard to improve the mid-range performance by changing mufflers. However, it is possible to improve the sound:-) and that's important for a lot of people too. (Message edited by gentleman_jon on April 04, 2005) | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Eexb - Look into getting a Drummer. www.patmedia.net/haynesfam | ||
| Eexb |
"You need to find a new dealer. " My dealer didn't say that an exhaust will completely void the warranty, they did say that there may be an instance that could relate to the exhaust and the warranty not covering it. They are knowledgeable on Buells and have several Buell owners working there and they treat me well. I just can't get them to say that a race kit will be warrantied 100%. I'm thinking of going w/ the race kit or a drummer and keeping my stock stuff around just in case. Thanks, EE | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Eexb - Kevin has a 12 Drummer in stock that needs no core from you. | ||
| Eexb |
"You need to find a new dealer. Using the Buell race kit does NOT void the warranty. Just another Harley dealer who is completely full of S**t. Nothing new there:-). You can check for yourself with Buell customer service: 1 414 343 4056. " Sorry buddy, but you're WRONG - I called Buell / HD customer service and they confirmed that installing a race kit may void the warranty. A friendly lady named Kathy told me that failures are examined on a case by case basis and any problem that could be related to the aftermarket (or HD race) part may NOT be covered by the manufacturer's warranty. So, it's just like me dealer has said - "installation of a race kit (or aftermarket exhaust, etc) may void the warranty". So, that leads me back to my original question - how many of you with a new(er) bike have said "to hell w/ the warranty" and gone ahead with an exhaust, ECM or etc ??? Or, have you set aside the factory parts to re-install if you have a problem ??? Thanks again, EE | ||
| Ivanski |
}Got this off the Sporttwin.com Postings. Should help you... Ivanski  } \Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:15 am Post subject: Magnuson-Moss Act - Warranty Laws - Know Your Rights -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Many of you have encountered dealerships and their personnel that attempt to tell you if you modify your Buell or use another oil besides Harley's then your warranty will be voided. This is simply a load of BS. Just to back this up a little.. there is this nifty piece of federal legislation called the Magnuson-Moss Act that protects consumers from dimwitted dealerships and their personnel. Not all HD/Buell Dealers have this problem but for those who do I am providing a few links. Read, learn and protect yourself. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.htm Legally, a vehicle manufacturer cannot void the warranty on a vehicle due to an aftermarket part unless they can prove that the aftermarket part caused or contributed to the failure in the vehicle (per the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)) . For best results, consider working with performance-oriented dealerships with a proven history of working with customers. If your vehicle manufacturer fails to honor emission/warranty claims, contact EPA at (202) 260-2080 or www.epa.gov. If federal warranty protection is denied, contact the FTC at (202) 326-3128 or www.ftc.gov. In a nutshell this means that manufacturers can not void your warranty if you installed a Vance&Hines muffler and your turn signals quit working. There has to be a verifiable link between the problem/malfunction and any installed mods. Now, if you were to install a nitrous oxide system and you brought your Buell in because it has a hole in a piston then you are going to have a problem, the repair is going to cost you. Read your warranty, Magnuson protects you by making the manufacturers spell out the warranty in detail, no hidden verbage and gives you recourse in case you enounter an unscrupulous dealership. For more information visit the link above and the following links provided by SEMA: Consumer Bill of Rights Warranty Denied? Federal Warranty Laws Manufacturers Warranty Hotline Numbers (this does not include Harley/Buell, their customer service number is (414) 343-4056) One of the number one myths is the HD oil issue, many dealers will try to tell you that your warranty is void unless you use 'certified Harley oil' or that 'synthetics are too slick', this all a bunch of rubbish to put it mildly. All you merely need to ask is for the dealer to show you in the warranty where it says this... end of discussion. _________________ Brad G Sport Twin Admin | ||
| Eexb |
Brad, "In a nutshell this means that manufacturers can not void your warranty if you installed a Vance&Hines muffler and your turn signals quit working. " You are right on - please note I am not saying that either Buell or my dealer has said installing an aftermarket (or race kit) muffler automatically voids my warranty. They are saying that if the failure is related to the exhaust, then the warranty may not cover the repair. I don't like or agree with the fact that HD won't warranty a problem related to the installation of HD parts (race kit), but you can't fight city hall. This is why I've asked how many Buellers have not worried about this hassle and gone ahead with aftermarket race parts. Thanks, EE | ||
| 99buellx1 |
Not worried. | ||
| Sokota |
My dealer backed only the Buell Race Kit,and they had to do install.MPO Buell nailed the sound level. (Message edited by sokota on April 04, 2005) | ||
| Slaughter |
I agree with many above - need to find a new dealer. It's the DEALER who does the warranty work. If you have a dealer who won't work with you (they ARE out there), switch dealers but if you are concerned about warranty issues - make sure you talk to the dealer before doing the changes or having him do the work. It's the dealer who would "rat you out" to the Mothership for having modifications. Since the factory race parts specifically state "Race Use Only" - it does give the dealer a way out of the warranty - but if your dealer gave a ••••, he'd let that slide. I'd say if you did headwork, jacked up the compression, swapped pistons... that sorta stuff, you'd have no expectation of warranty coverage but find a dealer who will work with you. Unfortunately, it'll likely only be a handshake-type agreement otherwise the dealer would be leaving his backside uncovered if they were "on the record" as covering non-warranteed stuff under warranty (just my thought) Too bad Omaha is almost 600 miles from Dave Stueve in Appleton! (Message edited by slaughter on April 04, 2005) | ||
| Flick |
My '03 9S only had a one year warranty (which I used when the voltage regulator crapped out, frying the battery and most bulbs on the bike), so I thought, ok, I want the sound and went ahead and installed the race pipe kit. No problems...no worries... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Magnuson-Moss applies only to consumables, and even in that case, they *can* invalidate your warranty under the act. It's just that they have some burden of proof to demonstrate that what you did was the cause of the failure. The trivial example would be if I ran $.50 gallon "lightly used" automotive oil in my Buell, and the engine siezed. Buell would, rightfully, not honor the warranty. (actually, that's not quite true, they have covered warranties for people doing even stupider things, depending on the situation). The counter example would be using Mobil 1 20w50 instead of the Harley oil. If I can demonstrate that the oil meets or exceeds the specifications they require, was API certified, and was changed at manufacturere intervals, then they would probably honor the warranty. But the manufacturer holds nearly all the cards here. The costs of even minor litigation (both out of pocket and in bike downtime) will almost immediately exceed the value of any motorcycle Buell sells. So regardless of the situation, if Buell decides they don't want to honor the warranty, you are going to lose. Even if you win the court case, by the time you win, you already lost. So the reality of a warranty is that it is exactly as good as the company that stands behind it, no more and no less. For parts clearly marked "For Race Use Only", and a warranty that clearly states "race use voids warranty", you are screwed even worse. Good luck getting anywhere with that in court. That's all the bad news. The good news? I know of perhaps one case where Buell probably should have covered an engine rebuild that they did not, but I also suspect that the customer had become such a total pain in the ••• by the time the "death blow" to his engine came, that the bridges were long since burnt. Or the customer threatened litigation, in which case the factory has no interest in solving the problem (and in fact has it's best interests met distancing themselves from it ASAP and doing as little as possible). Other cases I know of? Hit a huge rock at deals gap, bending the front rim, complain about 'funny vibrations' and get a new wheel. Or draining the "oil" out the tranny drain, topping off the swingarm, and riding the 8 miles until the tranny siezes up, and getting a new engine. How about bring a bike with a oil light on to a dealer (probably a cracked oil pump or drive gear), the mechanic glues something or tightens something, then sends the rider on their way (at which the oil pump lets go again and the engine is toasted). Result? Buell sent and installed a new engine. I'm sure the list goes on and on. I have a race ECM and an aftermarket exhaust on my new 9sx, and feed it Mobil 1, and cut up the airbox. So long as I don't pee all over my dealer, pee all over the factory, or do something mind bogglingly stupid, I am not concerned about Buell taking care of me in the event of a clear manufacturer defect. (Message edited by reepicheep on April 04, 2005) | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Eexb, just go for it. Guys your reading to much into what is being said. His dealer is saying there may be instances where the install of an aftermarket pipe could be a warranty issue. Say he installs the pipe, then a week later his header cracks at the collector, should that be covered under warranty? No, but they might just out of customer service with a note that if it breaks again its on you. But with a stock exhaust on there and the header cracks at the collector, its a no brainer. Its the dealers that tell you that no matter what, if you put an aftermarket piece on your bike your warranty is void that you need to go shop for a new dealer. | ||
| Eexb |
"Guys your reading to much into what is being said. His dealer is saying there may be instances where the install of an aftermarket pipe could be a warranty issue". Yep, that's correct. It's not so easy "to find a new dealer", even if I do go elsewhere, no HD dealer is going to put in writing that the "race only" parts won't void the warranty under any circumstances. Right now I want better sound more than the worry about the possibility that some failure might not be covered sometime in the future. I'm going to get a race kit or a Drummer and keep all the parts I take off. If my motor blows to smithereens, I can bolt the stock parts back on and take the XB to the dealer in my trailer. Thanks to all, Emery | ||
| Robxb |
Any performance pipe put on a bike, Harley or Buell will void the warranty. Keep the stock pipe just in case of a MAJOR warranty issue, but mostly all dealers will honor the warranty and fix it anyway. the only issue would be if there was something so wrong with the bike that they had to send it back or has a rep come out to look at it. | ||
| Norrisperformance |
It's all in the hands of the service writer. Drop him off a box of donuts before you have any problems! | ||
| Coppertop |
I think that many on this board are really quick to judge the "Harley Dealer" without understanding the real question at hand. I am not trying to stir up this issue any further, but how many of you have been treated poorly by Dillon Brothers Buell in Omaha? If you have I would like to know. I need to know! I took a job at this dealership, along with a huge paycut just to be around these bikes. I feel as if we do an excellent job taking care of our customers....especially Buell owners. I go out of my way for the Buell riders because I own two myself, and understand that we are a different type of rider than many who own Harleys. I am the service writer who talked to Emery about this exhaust issue ... and as he has pointed out the information I gave was technically correct. That is the question as it was given to me. I also told him that we put exhaust on all the time and unless Buell could tie engine probs to the exhaust, warranties can be claimed. We do take care of our customers! Emery thank you for clarifying in the previous posts the question/answer. I also thank you for calling customer service and sharing that information on this forum. It is true that in many cases the warranty is only as good as the dealership is at entering claims. I feel as if my dealership, and I more specifically, was called out by some on this board without knowing the whole conversation. I invite all who read this to stop by and visit me anytime. I love Buells and I am my employers largest advocate of these awesome bikes. I am just as passionate as anyone on this board. Thanks Chris Olander Dillon Brothers Buell Omaha,Ne 402 289-5556 | ||
| Daves |
Hi Chris! I told Emery you are one of the good guys. | ||
| Eexb |
"We do take care of our customers! " Chris, It's too bad there are so many HD dealers out there that treat Buells like they were manufactured by one of the big four !!! I feel pretty lucky that Dillon's is in Omaha, and, that there's several Buell "guys" working there. BTW - I checked out MAM's rider's school website today and am trying to convince myself that I can get my stuff together to make a class in June. Thanks again, E |
