| Author | Message | ||
     Dino |
"They do no such thing." Who does no such what. No, wait, who's on second... "their very existence is 100% dependent upon oil" Not true at all, why some of them make some very nice hand hammered brass ware.  | ||
| Okinawaxb12s |
cartel-i like that.is to true. | ||
| Rockbiter1 |
Ok, last i heard, the USA was mandated by law to NOT import more than 15% of our oil from other nations. If that is true, then why would OPEC raising prices on that 15% effextr us so much? Also...anyone look at how much we pay in taxes on gasoline? Federal, state. wildlife, sales, etc etc...I'm betting its well over $1.00 in taxes alone. The direct price of the gas (out of the refinery tap) is not the only think that makes gas cost so much at the pump. | ||
| Brucelee |
"maybe so,still pisses me off.gas is to high,but if you wanna play you gotta pay!!" Now you are getting it. Now once more, how much SHOULD gas cost? | ||
| Okinawaxb12s |
not over 2 bucks a gallon would be a good start. | ||
| Brucelee |
Historical records on this are clear. As crude oil prices rise, more exploration and refining are put on line as the increased prices allows for the higher marginal costs to be recouped. That is why the overall price increases of oil the past thirty years has been fairly moderate in spite of rising demand. The other fact is that we are not running out of oil. In 1974 the known oil reserves were pegged at about 12 yrs of the then use rate. In 2004 the same data was ........ 12 yrs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Free markets work rather well, wouldn't you say? In the meantime, if it bothers you, go buy a used VW Golf diesel and forget about the issue. Economics is the study of how society allocates scarce resources (all resources are scarce) among competing alternatives. | ||
| Brucelee |
"not over 2 bucks a gallon would be a good start." Why, what is magical about $2 per gallon? How much should milk cost? You see where this is going? | ||
| Okinawaxb12s |
h@ll,diesel is as expensive as gas!!! | ||
| Okinawaxb12s |
what does milk have to do with gas? | ||
| Brucelee |
"h@ll,diesel is as expensive as gas!!!" Well, that depends on where you buy it. Around here it can be .20c less per gallon. But I was really referring to the consumption rate, ie MPG. You know, around 50 MPG! | ||
| Brucelee |
"what does milk have to do with gas?" Arghhhhhhh! Back to 101 with you. Supply, demand, free market pricing? Think about it! | ||
| Okinawaxb12s |
ok. | ||
| Pcmodeler |
http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/30/news/fortune500/gm_fuelcell.reut/index.htm?cnn=y es GM in fuel cell deal with government Auto manufacturer says it has inked $88M pact to build fleet of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles by 2009. DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp. on Wednesday said it signed an $88 million deal with the Department of Energy to build a fleet of 40 hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and further develop the technology. Under the five-year program, the world's largest auto manufacturer will spend $44 million to deploy fuel cell demonstration vehicles in Washington D.C., New York, California and Michigan. The Department of Energy will contribute the other half of the program's investment under an agreement that expires in September 2009. In a separate commercial agreement, Shell Hydrogen, LLC will support GM by setting up five hydrogen refueling stations in Washington, D.C.; New York City; between Washington D.C. and New York; and in California. Other program partners include the Army at Fort Belvoir, Va., and Quantum Technologies in Lake Forest, Calif. Both will provide facilities for GM to store and maintain fuel cell vehicles. GM said it is also collaborating with the Department of Defense and would release news on that relationship later this week. | ||
| Brucelee |
Great example of the economic reality. The high price of fuel drives innovation to lower the total cost of fuel used. The higher the price, the more folks look for alternatives. That is why we now have hybrids. At .35 a gallon, why would you even think of a hybrid? Let the good times roll! | ||
| Pcmodeler |
I've seen some of the Hydrogen technology that GM is developing. It's really cool. The power train is all in the chassis so there is no engine compartment. Plus, you can swap body shells. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Okinawa NO country, not even one as big & powerful as the US can ignore what go's on in other countries, we live in a global economy. If you don't give a sh*t about anyone else, you can't turn around & whine when they try to screw you over 'cos they don't give one about you. I'd tell you to stick that up your own a$$, but there's no room with your head up there. (see I can be gratuitously insulting too, but we ain't going to get anywhere that way,)  | ||
| Steve_mackay |
This is why my next vehicle purchase *WILL* be a diesel. Now I can't justify the price of a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. But I do want something I can tow an enclosed trailer with. So the only alternative will be a Jeep Liberty with the new 4cyl turbodiesel. With 295LB/FT torque, it should tow quite well  | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Steve, you'll find that nearly all import models to the US have a diesel equivalent outside the US & may be available on special order there. Here in Europe the diesel market is HUGE, if you want any specs or whatever ping me. | ||
| Lovematt |
I agree with Mr grumpy...in my travels to Europe for work all but one rental car I got were diesels. Even had a nice Peugot (sp?) four door sedan that I thought had a little bit of extra noise to the motor until I realized at refuel time (2 weeks later...mileage was amazing) that the car was actually a diesel. I didn't even know it! | ||
| Honu |
Ultra Low Sulfur specs will go into effect for Diesel starting in 2006. I was reading a report that claims Diesel will run 50 to 75 cents higher than premium gas when this takes place. | ||
| Grndskpr |
what does milk have to do with gas? Good point what does Milk have to do with the price of gas???? Its nearly impossiable to compare a market for one product and compare it to another when the second is goverment subsidized, creating an atificial price, as with a lot of farm products More important on the price of gas, why are gas prices higher this year when reservers are higher than last year, more is being pumped Look for the fuel industry to fall prey to the hedgefunds and specutators, and crash hard similar to the dot coms China is using less than last year also, it an artificial price increase cause by the market interesting to watch, because in reality it hurt the middle east more than it helps, because if the fuell cell becomes a reality, the middle east is in the tolet and they now it as always my opinion and very interesting to watch R | ||
| Brucelee |
"Good point what does Milk have to do with the price of gas???? Its nearly impossiable to compare a market for one product and compare it to another when the second is goverment subsidized, creating an atificial price, as with a lot of farm products" Yes and no. Markets work the same way over time, with supply and demand as the levers. When you introduce a subsidy, floor, or ceiling, you alter the S and D dynamics, always with sub-optimal outcomes. For example, if gas prices were subsidized, you would the same kinds of behavior by buyers and sellers. To wit, when price supports are used, surplus' good are produced as there is more supply available than the demand at that artificially higher price OVER TIME! When price controls are used, demand outstrips supply and shortages rule (remember Nixon and the "gas crisis." "More important on the price of gas, why are gas prices higher this year when reservers are higher than last year, more is being pumped Look for the fuel industry to fall prey to the hedgefunds and specutators, and crash hard similar to the dot coms." This will be interesting. In all commodities markets, speculators impact existing prices by "betting" on future prices. This is actually a good thing over time and you may be totally right about the guys buying big time at current prices. Fun and games! | ||
| Grndskpr |
When you introduce a subsidy, floor, or ceiling, you alter the S and D dynamics, always with sub-optimal outcomes. For example, if gas prices were subsidized, you would the same kinds of behavior by buyers and sellers. To wit, when price supports are used, surplus' good are produced as there is more supply available than the demand at that artificially higher price OVER TIME! Again i think its a yes and no answer, sumtimes, supplies over reach demand, causing a surpluss, which in turn lowers the price, below the sub level, causing milk for instance to be poured down the drain, because it cost more to ship than to sell Reality is, in todays world, there are people that make there living off following the ups and downs of all markets, and i belive there are more people than there were before, hence causing greater movements up and sharper movements down, plus it dosent help that just about verything has a petrolium base product in it from clothes to plastic I guess the real question is, what happens to the middle east when fuel cells are figured out, there are no kings in Saudi adn no money avaliable to the middle east, because outside of sand and oil, what is there really Will they realize what they have in natural treasures, will they atempt to wooo the US with tourism, will terrorism have to be erraticated, just so they can stay affloat, r will it be the opposite I see fuell cells, being closer than a lot of people want to belive, again its going to be an interesting decade R | ||
| Vegasbueller |
"what does milk have to do with gas?" Hmm well eeven I know the answer to that one.... Milk, you see, is made by cows. Cows, after a long life of giving milk will die. When they die, they are buried and then they begin the process of becoming fossill fuels. Was it that hard to figure out? Drink more milk, wear the cow out faster thereby getting a faster start on more crude production!  (Message edited by vegasbueller on April 02, 2005) | ||
| Xbduck |
Brucelee, I don't think Karl Marx was as big an idiot as say Lenin and Stalin. Marx was a theorist who said true communism would happen naturally in the U.S. first. Has anyone else been watching our liberties be taken like a thief in the night? Grndskpr, Most fuel companies only sell biodiesel mix because of liability issues. Some sell 90/10 that you found and some sell 80/20. The reason for this is because 100% biodiesel eats natural rubber. Some car companies have made changes to production to allow for this, VW and NEW Dodge trucks come to mind first. You could put a 2nd fuel tank in your trucks that is heated with radiator water and run straight veggie-oil with no other modifications to the engine itself, just the fuel lines. There are companies that make kits to do this for cars (mostly VWs). With this setup you start up on diesel when the veggie-oil is hot a regulator switches to it, you just have to remember to switch back 10-20 min. before you shut off the engine. Dr. Diesel invented the engine so his family in Germany could grow their own fuel. Okinawa, I would bet on the Chinese hording commodities as the biggest problem. They have increased demand on other items just to stockpile them (steel for one). But who says they don't have the right to buy what they want when they want if they can stand the price. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Mr Grumpy. Yup a lot of the same vehicles that are sold here, are also sold in Europe with a Diesel. Try to get one here, have it DOT and EPA approved would be a pita. I think with the increasing price of gasoline, the hybrids and diesels will start selling much better. Also, a lot of talks about Diesel/Electric hybrids. Which really make a lot of sense. I wanted a Diesel truck when I purchased my current Dodge 4x4. But to get a diesel, you must get a 3/4 ton, which is more expensive, and unneeded in my case. I think it's silly that none of the automakers offer a 1/2 ton diesel. When I saw that Dodge was going to make the Jeep Liberty diesel(which btw, comes from the factory with Biodiesel in it), that struck my interest. 295LB/FT of torque(good for towing a few bikes ), and 28MPG on the hwy. We've taken a lot of trips down south to pick up bikes, and taken my truck every time. At an average 15MPG, that wont be economical any longer. Daily commute I get 12-13MPG now. Good thing it's starting to warm up so I can commute on the Buell now | ||
| Okinawaxb12s |
ford is going to offer a diesel in the 150 series next year. | ||
| 2000m2 |
Run your car practically for free...if it's a diesel anyway...my roomate might be doing this real soon with his truck...http://www.greasecar.com/ | ||
| Phillyblast |
This looks interesting - they modified a Prius so it could be plugged in and charged. Steve - I saw the Jeep but I've yet to see one available for purchase. Grrr. It'll be at least a year before I'm ready to look for another vehicle, so I'm willing to wait, but the lack of a diesel option on anything less than a 3/4 ton truck is frustrating. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Philly, price and build one at Jeep web site. They will then search inventory. There were at least a dozen available in the Milwaukee area when i looked last. |
