| Author | Message | ||
     Norrisperformance |
  Inserted character space between images to prevent page from going over-width. Blake  (Message edited by blake on March 27, 2005) | ||
| BadS1 |
Norris I'd say that Dyno is inaccurate of the D&D on the 12 the D&D hurt the over all performance of the bike from stock.Hell 9's do that well kitted.Bad Dyno comparison.Like I said everyones Dyno is different.A stock 12 should be doing or I should say I've seen anywhere from 89-96 HP out of them.Even the mags are reporting those numbers and they bad mouth Buells regularily. (Message edited by BADS1 on March 27, 2005) | ||
| Rageonthedl |
yeah my 12 with the race kit is 96hp 82tq | ||
| Norrisperformance |
That dyno chart came from the D&D web site. Go figure: If I could get those numbers with a stock set up. Thats sure what I'd be running!! I think I read 84 rear wheel hp power stock. I'm know the numbers would be higher with the race ecm. But I've never seen a dyno that good with the race kit. What's the thinking behind the D&D? They have got to have some reason there looking for as much power as they can get around 5000 rpm. I'm sure no expert, but man that sounds odd. http://www.danddexhaust.com/Charts/Buell/XB12_SO.jpg | ||
| Rageonthedl |
here is my the dyno from my bike....  | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Rageonthedl How much did you gain with the stage three heads? I thinking about doing the same thing. | ||
| Rageonthedl |
They should be here this week by Fri at the latest, I had Fleet call Justin and he said that i should be at the 98-108hp as long as im over 100 ill be happy. as soon as i get it done ill run her on the dyno and post the graph. | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Rageonthedl You could pick up a lot more on the bottom with the new Drummer. I'd like to see your bike on a dyno with a Drummer. Man she would be BAD. | ||
| Rageonthedl |
so send me one, for the same price im getting the heads at and you have a deal. (im gettin the heads free, im gonna leave it at that ha ha) but is for want you can send me one to run with the heads and after i get some numbers i will send it back unless we can work out some kinda deal or something...i still have that stock muffler that you wanted me to COD but i dont like COD ha ha, just let me know what it would take to get one of the new drummers from you...i may be able to come up with 2 stock mufflers and a race muffler and some other parts if needed, just let me know. (Message edited by rageonthedl on March 27, 2005) | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Rageonthedl My bike started picking up the front when hitting third. With the power curve on your bike. Does it do that? I can't wait to see the dynos with those heads. Give em He11 Rageonthedl! | ||
| Jerseyguy |
BadS1 - I still love you brother! lololol | ||
| BadS1 |
Jersey I can't help what I found.Don't hate the Drummer or Kevin.I just have been on a 12 with all of the popular pipes that are being used and so far the D&D is the cats arse.LOLOLLOLOL | ||
| Blake |
Some comments on those dyno results Mike... The D&D dyno results comparing their D&D fitted XB12S to a stock XB12S are from a Superflow dynamometer. Superflow dynos have been known to report SIGNIFICANTLY lower SAE results than Dynojet dynos. Any meaningful direct one-to-one comparison of results from the two different brands of dynos on two different bikes is difficult at best. But let's see what we have... Stock peak RWHP appears to be around 98 RWHP and at 6,500 rpm. Why didn't they run to rev-limit? Still that is the best result I've seen for a stock XB12. Peak torque is 75.1 FT-LB at near 5,000 rpm. The D&D fitted bike shows a significant decrease in peak power. At 6,500 rpm, again stopping short of the rev-limit, the D&D just makes it to 90 RWHP with a peak torque of 82.3 FT-LBs at 5 grand. Further review reveals that D&D shows their own pipe kicking butt over the stock system between 3,600 and 5,800 rpm and falling short below and above those points. Once again, like with the XB9, D&D is tuning for mongo big mid range. It appears as though they got it, once again at a sacrifice to low end and peak HP. The Drummer plot X-axis shows 101.5 mph at 5252 rpm (where the HP and torque curves intersect) thus indicating a 51.7 rpm/mph land speed to engine speed conversion factor. And we also see the 6,800 rpm hard rev-limit at about 131.7 mph yielding a land speed to engine speed factor of 51.6, pretty darn good agreement. So we would find 4,500 rpm at... (4,500rpm)/(51.7rpm/mph)=81.1 mph. Power and torque at 4,500 rpm (81.1 mph) are 60 RWHP and 75 FT-LBs respectively. At 4,500 rpm the D&D is at 80 FT-LBs and 68.5 RWHP. So apparently, if the two dyno results are directly comparable (big if), the D&D does better in the mid-range and the Drummer does better down low and up high. Sounds familiar. Choose your favorite flavor. | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Yep But why? Why do they want just mid range? Am I missing the whole deal or is it just different riding styles. For me, I'd be in that power band around the apex and thats not where I like all the power. I want it on the exit of a turn and thats when the D&D runs out. and when you hit another gear you want that puppy to pull. I'm starting to think we need to see some lap times. Or better yet buy what you want, and what fits you best. And I'll stop being a pest! | ||
| BadS1 |
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| Hogs |
Norrisperformance , Tried just about all the pipes out there and for top end power one wd. be hard to beat the Buell race can it hauls A S S on top from about 3800 rpms up to the return of no Go (in other words until it falls on its face..! | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Yes you are correct | ||
| Blake |
Mike, Here's how I see it. Each pipe is a compromise. The D&D compromises optimum performance down low and up high in favor of best possible mid-range. The Drummer compromises optimum performance in the mid-range in favor of best possible low-end and top-end. The Buell race can compromises low to low-mid to achieve best possible high-mid to high end performance. All are capable of matching the stock can performance even in their compromised range of operation. And they blow away the stock can in their optimized range of operation. Pick your favorite power flavor and your preferred acoustics. If we were comparing striclty racing prowess, then we can throw out the low-end operation as a concern. But for the street, that is not the case, at least for me. The D&D folks might ask you a question similar to the one you pose. Can you imagine what it might be? I'm still waiting on an aftermarket can that will take advantage of the XB12 muffler valve actuator. I still think that one could achieve the best of both the Drummer and the D&D if that valve actuator could be taken advantage of in a new slip-on design. Basically you theoretically achieve the best performance of the Drummer and the D&D combined. How cool would that be? That is what Buell did with their EPA compliant muffler. The concept is no different for an aftermarket can. It basically comes down to a variable length exhaust tract is all. No? | ||
| Kds1 |
I think if the valve was any way of doing it , it would have already made it's debut around the world...it would be used in every application because the most power could be extracted from any internal combustion engine....Maybe it has been proposed and we don't know about it...maybe it was the solution to all the exhaust needs and was bought to set on a shelf so exhaust manufacturers would still need the general public to always need a better pipe and they would have something else to sell, I don't know, I'm just a hillbilly... www.kdfab.com | ||
| Evil_twin |
I believe Nissan uses the same technology in the exhaust of the Maxima. Remember reading about it when they changed to the rounder body style a few years ago. If anyone can figure out a better way to use it than the engineers at Buell, Kevin is probably that guy! Rich  | ||
| Uwgriz |
Blake, I wouldn't expect to see an aftermarket pipe utilizing the valve. First the develpment costs would be huge for what is realistically a small market to recover those costs. Also, it would have to be tuned to the same open/close program as the stock pipe or come with it's own controller. In other words, I'm thinking it would either be hugely expensive or it would pretty much be a stock pipe. Just my thoughts, but I could be wrong. | ||
| Blake |
Kevin, Pretty sure more than a few of the sport bikes are using some form of variable exhaust tract geometry. And I'm not saying that the valve itself is the way to go, just that making use of the actuator is an intriguing idea. It is already there after all. Seems to me one solution on the high performance side of things would be a variable length tailpipe that shortened as the revs climbed to around midway then elongated continuing on to the rev limit. At least for the Buell. Your trying to get the negative pressure pulse to arrive at the exhaust port at the optimum moment during valve overlap, right? Heck, I dunno. Fun to talk about though. Next question... how to make an infinitely adjustable (sliding trombone style) variable length tailpipe? But back to just the valve. Say you could mount a Drummer and a D&D on the bike (silly in the real world I know, but just humor me for a minute or thirty). Say you could integrate a collector with a valve that would direct the exhaust into one or the other muffler. Say from idle to 3,800 the valve directed exhaust to the Drummer, then when hitting 3,800, it actuated and directed all exhaust to the D&D, continuing to do so until at 5,800 it switched back to the Drummer again and stayed in that mode all the way to the rev limit. If one could minimize the effects of the convoluted collector/valve assembly, one should end up with mongo low-end, killer beefy mid-range, and optimum top-end, having our cake and eating it too. That is pretty much what Buell achieved with the stock can on the 12 in EPA compliant form. Bubba was never convinced of my logic on this either. Still seems viable to me. However, designing and fabricating a single slip-on muffler to do it with stock headers is a whole other matter. If you could, I'd imagine it would be worth a good $850 or more a piece. Where am I wrong? | ||
| Ingemar |
Many of the il4's use valves. I believe the 2005 R1 has 8 of 'em. Exhaust valves have been around for quite a few years actually. | ||
| M1combat |
I still think that a variable length intake tract would be a good idea... We already have the actuator... | ||
| Blake |
M1, There just isn't anywhere near the benefit to be found in the intake tract variable length as there is in the exhaust. On the intake side, you might find a couple HP variance between worst versus optimum runner length. On the exhaust side you can find 15 HP. | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Just hang on guy's I'm testing a pipe right now and I think it's going to be close to what your talking about. may end up with an adjustable something. It looks like it's going to do it with out the adjustable part. Ran it some yesterday and this pipe sounds meaner than any twin I have ever heard. Sounds like a ducati race bike on steroids. And it looks like its going to cost about $750.00 Anymore info than that you'll have to get it out of Kevin www.kdfab.com | ||
| Norrisperformance |
It's a Bad a55 looking pipe too. All hand mad, Kevin's making the complete pipe. And it's so much lighter. No need to send your old one. The pipe I have is prototype for testing. But Kevin doesn't know he ain't getting it back!!!!! | ||
| Ingemar |
All I need to know is if it's going to do the same for a 9!!  | ||
| Kds1 |
Jerseyguy has the 9 pipe so we'll find out soon... www.kdfab.com | ||
| Jerseyguy |
First it has to stop freaking raining! | ||
| Ingemar |
Put on a friggin' rain suit man!  | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Ingemar, It's not the getting wet part, it's the falling down & sliding for 100 yards part, lol | ||
| Spike |
Mike, any chance I can get a sneak peek at this new pipe? Mike L. | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Whatz up Spike I don't mind, but ask Kevin first. But no pics! |
