| Author | Message | ||
     Hodakaguy |
I just got back from a ride on my 97 S1 and shut my bike down. When I pushed it into the garrage I heard a clicking noise coming from the trans area. I placed the rear of the bike on the lift and rolled the rear tire forward with my hand. I can hear a click, click noise while rolling the tire forward and it sounds like its coming from the trans area. I doesn't do it while rolling the tire backwards. It also doesn't affect the noise if I hold the clutch in or not. It clicks about 3 times for every wheel revolution. Any ideas. It's possible this noise has always been there and I just noticed it. Anyone elses bike make a simular noise? Thanks, Hodakguy. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I know exactly what it is. Are you sure you want to know? Nothing mortal, and if you address it quickly, not even anything particularly expensive, but some major dissassembly to fix it. I have a shortcut worth trying as well. I would probably only give it a 50% chance of working, but if it did work it would save you bunches of grief. Brace before clicking, then follow the thread through several archives (next link at the top of each page) http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3842&post=180725#POST 180725 I started the job thinking I was just going to deal with worn dogs. They were worn, and I replaced them, but the more serious issue I stumbled on was exactly what you are describing on your bike. Here is what it is: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3842&post=181560#POST 181560 That is looking through the middle of the 5th gear drive assembly, mine was obviously trashed and then some, and at the bottom of the page in the first link you can see the extensive damage to my mainshaft. I replaced it, but to be honest, I bet I could have kept using it without a lot of problems. Anyway, the bearings inside your 5th gear drive assembly are probably rusted to goo. To replace them, you have to pull the tranny (less work then removing a wheel on a tuber), then press out the 5th gear drive assembly (scary and tense, but very doable for the home mechanic) and get the inside bearings pressed out in a hydraulic press and replaced. Hopefully your mainshaft is not damaged yet, that will save you a boatload of work and lots of $$. My idea for a shortcut would be avoiding pressing the 5th gear drive assembly out (which trashes an expensive bearing and is pretty tense). Instead, get a big high quality bolt, that fits inside the shaft and bearings. Then get good strong washers (machine them if necessary) that will catch those needle bearings. Use the fine pitched bolt as a mini hydraulic press, and leave the drive assembly in place, and just replace the bearings. It would take some setup, but so does pulling the drive assembly. Worth a try. That being said, I will pass on my home built rig for pressing the drive assembly out if you promise to pass it on to the next badwebber that needs it. Finally, it is remotely possible that you just split a primary chain tensioner, so check that right when you pull off the primary cover, especially if you still have the old style one. The new style is twice as strong. But I doubt it, so don't get your hopes up. You can pop off the 50 cent seal that is on the shaft in the middle of your front sprocket really easily as well, and look for rust (or crunchy bearing chunks) as well if you want another data point before digging in that deep. It'll be OK. In hindsight, after all my tension and panic passed, it was actually a very satisfying excercise. Tuber Trapdoor Trannies Rock! | ||
| Hodakaguy |
I was really hoping not to hear that. What exactly is making the clicking sound? It still shifts smooth and drives great. I think I'll pull the primary cover off and see what I can see. Hopefully It won't be to bad. I'll let you know what I find. Thanks for the info. Hodakaguy. | ||
| Captainkirk |
Also could be a loose primary chain due to a broken tensioner shoe spring. Pull the small 2" cover on the primary cover (top left side) and check the primary chain tension with your finger (bike in neutral)-should be 1/2 to 3/8" cold. If it's more than this, it could need adjusting. If it's LOTS more than this, your primary shoe spring broke (or cracked) and needs attention IMMEDIATELY. There's plenty of info (mine included) in the KV. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The fact that it does it with the clutch in is what leads me down the road to thinking its the fifth gear drive assembly, but the primary tensioner could have split and could have part of the backplate loose in the primary doing that. What happens is that a combination of excessive belt tension (encouraged by the manual), water accumulation, and poor lubrication circulation gets inside that fifth gear drive assembly (the thing your front belt sprocket attaches onto)and rusts out those needle bearing cages. Sometimes, the entire seal on the 5th gear assembly is gone, popped off and lost. Once those needle bearings start to rust, those needle bearings become plain bearings (lubricated metal on metal) and will actually survive quite a while that way, but will damage the mainshaft of the tranny in the process, which adds a lot to your repair time and costs. Pictures of my pitted mainshaft are at the very bottom of the page on that first link I posted above, pictures of my chopped bearings are on the second page. Don't be freaked by pulling the tranny, it's not a bad job at all. Less work then a rocker box gasket replacement. | ||
| Hodakaguy |
I'll have to dig into it and see whats going on. I'll try to get it pulled apart in the next couple of days. I've been wanting to update the primary chain tensioner to the new style anyway so I guess nows the time. I'll let you know what I find. Thanks, Hodakaguy | ||
| Reepicheep |
If you have the old tensioner in there, then there may be hope, and a piece of it may just be rubbing up against something, and it may have nothing to do with the 5th gear assembly. (or that could just be broken also  ). | ||
| Hodakaguy |
I'm not holding out a ton of hope for the tensioner as the clicking sound seams loudest right at the front drive sprocket. I'm really not afraid of the job, I just hate thinking of how long it will take our worthless buell dealer to get me the parts I need. They don't even have a primary gasket in stock, everything is "we can order you one". Thanks again, I'll keep you updated. Hodakaguy | ||
| Reepicheep |
It probably won't be bad, the bearings cross over to the sporty, as do the gaskets, and those are the only "known blown" at this point. I think the Chain tensioner does as well. I think my pitted and scored mainshaft ran for about 8000 miles as a "plain bearing" long after my needle bearing cages rusted to goo. If you get on this early, the tranny is probably fine, and you won't need any parts. Home Depot / Lowes has the "5th gear assembly press out kit", they just don't know it. I believe it was a short section of 2" conduit, a long really thick threaded rod, several washers, and a thick steel bar about 12 inches long (and it has to be pretty substantial). And like I said, I will be happy to ship mine to you, if you agree to pass it on to the next persone who needs it. Let us know how it goes! | ||
| Hodakaguy |
Thanks for the Offer Reepicheep. I removed the muffler and drainded the primary this morning. There was a little metal grey fuz on the magnet but nothing really out of the ordinary. I also removed the cover on the front sprocket and removed the little black seal covering the needle bearings on the end of the output shaft. It looks nice and clean, it has some light grease in there so someone must have greased it at one time. Now that the belt is off I can rotate the front sprocket by hand and its not making any noise. There isn't any play on the sprocket either, up nor in and out. I'm going to go ahead and pull the primary cover off after work today and see what else I can see. That noise came from some where. Thanks for all the help, I'll let you know what I find. Also when the Ran the bike on the stand yesterday I noticed the rear sprocket is out of round slightly, the wheel looked nice and true while it was turning but the sprocket had a slight up and down motion to it, very slight though. Is it normal for the sprocket not to run completey true. Thanks again. Tom. (Message edited by hodakaguy on March 16, 2005) | ||
| Firemanjim |
Check your rear wheel bearings while you are at it,then pull primary,and I always try to get the parts guys to give my stuff for a "Sportster",makes them more comfortable. | ||
| Hodakaguy |
Reepicheep, I sent you a PM. I just checked my rear wheel bearings when I installed new tires last week. they looked and felt great. Thanks, Hodakaguy | ||
| Reepicheep |
If you have the primary cover off, and remove the clutch/stator/chain assembly, you are perhaps 8 bolts from having the transmission out and ready for a full and proper inspection. Good news on the grease, so long as it was put there to prevent a new problem, rather then hide an existing one. | ||
| Hodakaguy |
Well I got it apart. It's super clean inside. No Metal or signs of wear. A couple of the pins behind the detent plate were backed out slightly and I drove them back in with a brass drift. I can see just a tiny bit of the needle bearings through the end of the output shaft, enought to tell they are rolling and not stuck. Everything looks and feels great so I'm going to re-assemble everything. While its open I'm going to replace the crank seal for GP's and install the new updated detent plate and updated primary chain tensioner. My old tensioner was cracking but hadn't came apart yet, glad I caught it now! I went to the local pathetic buell dealer and they had a few of the parts but not all of them, they had to order several parts including the new detent plate and primary tensioner and they said it will take 5 - 7 days for them to arrive so I guess the bikes down for a week or so. I'll take this time to do some detail work and to paint the front sprocket while its off. I noticed that the clicking was not there after removing the belt and turning the trans by hand. Maybe it was something rubbing on the front sprocket cover or ? We'll see if its still there when it all gets back together. I bought several of the little oil seals that go on the output shaft in the middle of the sprocket, I figure I will pop it off every oil change and squirt some oil in there at the same time. I know its been covered but what oil is best for the trans? I'm thinking of going Mobile 1 75-90w gear oil. Thanks for all the help. I'll let you know how it all turns out. Thanks, Hodakaguy | ||
| Bluzm2 |
I'll second the check on the rear wheel bearings. You should have seen the ones in my S2. They were clicking, only heard it after the belt broke and I was pushing it home. Both bearings on the drive side were trashed. Another damn good reason to put the spoke plugs in on Marchesini wheels. Keeps water out of the bearings! Brad | ||
| Reepicheep |
good news! Mine became more obvious once the belt was off, so you are probably good! | ||
| Hodakaguy |
Well I finished it up. The belt was rubbing on the plastic guard that goes around the sprocket, there are wear marks on it from the belt and this was probubly the cause of the clicking. (didn't even notice it when I removed the guard) I left the guard off this time and painted up the pulley. I wasn't sure which direction to install the new crank seal so I installed it open side out, we'll see if it leaks or not. I pulled the trans all the way out to inspect the 5th gear bearings and they looked really good so I just squished some lubriplate in them and doused them with some mobil 75-90w. I installed the new updated tensioner and updated detent plate and adjusted the shift linkage. It's all back together now but the weather is crappy outside so It will be a few days before I can give it a test ride. Thanks for all the help. Hodakaguy | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Hodaka, You got the seal in the correct way. If you use the insertion tool, you have to orient it that way as tool has a lip that need to rest inside of the open side. |
