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Court
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 02:08 pm: | 
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First off, I knew several talented folks at Indian. Problem was they did pretty much everything but used their talent.
Shame. I could have seen Indian as a competing prodcut for someone just wanting a classic cruiser. I number myself amojng the "wouldn't take a Fay Boy or a Road King if you gave it to me" crowd. An Indian Chief, like a Norton or Triumph Bonneville would stir the juices.
Leasebacks, from my perspective, were quite wonderful. In my personal case, I was the unintended benefactor of a group of dentists who purchased a high performance airplane for the "tax write off". Rather than buy, I had a "rent by the hour" deal on both a 172RG and a Saratoga 38188. Business partner and I went for a year with not one other person putting a pen to the log book. In those days, renting, in our case, was better than buying or leasing.
Any of you in the KC area may know Amy Heaven (yes, she is) the gal who was the Beechcraft Corporate Aircraft Sales specialist. Those who knew my Father, I think perhaps Erik Buell is the only one here who did, could appreciate what Moe told her when she finally got her appointment to meet with him.
It was along the lines of "if it floats, ***** or flies........" you fill in the blanks. Dad was another who knew how business worked.
He was with a very sucessful, on the way to being the first big national, heavy construction company. When a job in AZ went bad, they sent him in and he saved it. The Chairman announced that Dad, henceforth, would be in charge of all "road projects".
Dad explained that he'd not had kids to spend 3 weeks a month away. They crapped on him. Dad, again you;d have to know that he had a host of Big 6 (now 12) football scholarships, was the state champ in heavyweight wrestling and shot put and paid his one year in college as a bouncer, went to a bar and borrowed $50 each from 10 Linemen.
19 years later, he walked in one day and said "I always said when it wasn't fun anymore, I'd quit" and he did. Got each and every soul who worked for him job, called the Auction folks and sold it all. All those D-8 and D-9 Caterpillars, a couple hundred 3/4T 4-wheel drive, the cranes, 300 radios, the works. At 52, he walked away. The funny part that amazed the auction folks was when he held that sale, they learned he'd not borrowed one nickel since that $500 in 1964.
If you live anywhere, St. Louis, KC, Omaha, Tulsa, OKC, within a 500 mile radius of Topeka, KS and see a BIG (we were the first to use helicopters to set steel transmission towers - STL) there's better than 85% chance he built it. My personal favorites are the huge Missouri and Mississippi river crossings.
He and Erik met only several times, but one of my favorite pictures is of the two of them huddled one day when Erik was in Topeka. I'm as smart as neither of them and admire both.
Good business is good business.
Court
P.S. - any of you who have ever seen a Food-4-Less remind me to tell you what my orphand Grandfather did with the fruit and vegtable stand he opened for the U.S. Gov't next to the munitions plant in Eudora, KS. First person to ever use a scanner for grocery checkout (Wanamaker Road Store - Topeka, KS) |
Buells Rule!
(Dyna in disguise)
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 02:42 pm: |
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The Hanlons, Fischer, Cyzs and others have served as the fools "why can't you be like them" bait dangled before Erik Buell, he's never taken the bait.
The Hanlons were a couple of the biggest damn crooks ever & yet they blame everyone but themselves for the problems.
I wouldnt lump Cys in that category just yet. The man has never claimed to be building a production based machine or ever has any intention on being some world dominating force like the Hanlons perceived themselves. He is instead focusing his attention on designing the best pure race bike as he envisions it...much like Erik did with the RW750 & Britten did with his bike. Time will tell what path he will follow. Fischer just isnt stepping up the plate as of yet..lots of smoke & mirrors & Korean engines but thats about it so far. |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 09:41 am: |
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Re: the Fisher, we used to call this stuff "vaporware" in the software trade.
Where is this bike, can I buy it?
If so, why would I buy an imitation SV650 when the original is available down the street? Come to think of it, why would I buy an SV650?
I love the amount of attention bikers devote to "bikes that will be coming soon to a theatre near you!" |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 07:10 pm: |
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The article I read about the Czys bike did indeed talk about entering into production for street bikes; it also talked about competing in a MotoGP race this year at Laguna Seca. Pretty damn arrogant and WAY WAY ahead of himself in my opinion. Not to mention some of the horrible design aspects of his new bike. |
Doughnut
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 07:58 pm: |
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Sorry to be off topic but, what happened to the "rebirth" of Indian. Someone told me that H-D bought them out. True?
Court, you mentioned "commemorative, high-buck "specials"". Any chance of another Tuber? |
Geoffg
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 08:17 pm: |
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Not to mention some of the horrible design aspects of his new bike
--Could you elaborate, Blake?
Doughnut, I believe Indian was bought by a British firm, Stellican, the same one that bought and revived Chris-Craft boats and several other "dying" marques--I believe they originated as the makers of Seagull outboards.} |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 05:32 am: |
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>>>>Court, you mentioned "commemorative, high-buck "specials"". Any chance of another Tuber?
No chance that I am aware of.
Frankly, I'd love to buy a "NEW" 1996 S-1 built with what Buell now knows. But, with Buell selling every bike they can make, I don't see anyone eager to take their eye off the ball and the folks who'd buy them are few.
Court |
1313
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 12:33 pm: |
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Court,
Once again - as always - I guess I am a member of a small group.
1313 |
Midknyte
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 01:09 pm: |
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I believe Polaris is owned by Chrysler.
And apparently, Polaris is/owns Victory - that's where their website led me to anyway.
While I was there I saw something interesting. Two of their models (Kingpin and Vegas) have special design series by Arlen and Cory Ness.
With the current climate and the OCC / American Chopper / et' al shows on TV & a Ness show here and there, these bikes have to be a real marketing coup for Victory. I could almost imagine the tie-in inspiring a customer loyalty/alliance/religion not too unlike HD with certain faction of the market. |
Midknyte
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 01:11 pm: |
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I think the ironic thing is that once Fischer decided to outsource the Korean motor, that very Korean Manufacturer has announced plans to introduce a line of bikes, one that is similar to the Fischer, in the US Market.
Got a link to that? Would like to have a look-see. |
Buelliedan
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 02:12 pm: |
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Polaris owns Victory. Polaris is not owned by Chrysler. |
Kowpow225
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 02:31 pm: |
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I remember reading about hyosung a while back in a late summer MOTORCYCLIST mag. They had a pretty extensive write-up on the little korean company. I believe the title read something like, "THE BEST 650 YOU'VE NEVER HEARD OF." I think after it was all said and done, the writers thought they were on their way to being another competitor to the big four, but still had more development to do to become an equal. I'd have to assume they cut him a pretty sweet deal on those motors! |
Blublak
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 03:53 pm: |
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Isnt' Polaris owned by Bombardier? They're a Canadian company that make everything from Planes (I think they own LearJet now) to Train Systems.. Everything I know about them says they do good work.. Hence Victory has some good company in the corporate stable.. |
Rokoneer
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 03:59 pm: |
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Polaris is it's own company, not owned by Bombardier, Chrysler, or anyone else.
Well actually I'm a part owner, in a stockholder kinda way.... |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 04:46 pm: |
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I believe it's now called "Daimler-Chrysler." |
Team
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 04:53 pm: |
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Doesn't Mercedes own Chrysler? and on and on. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 04:53 pm: |
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the Csyz scoot in an interesting design excersize (very famililar to architects and vehical designers) -- the road from that to a production anything is, I think, longer than the admittedly talneted man might think --
architects design buildings as independant entities (except the production line ones,, of course) -- the difference between making one thing to your spec and designing it so you can build thousands of em right almost every time is huge -- I'm sure the man has hired folks to help him do so, but he's further away from offerin units to the public than some would have us believe . . . ..
on a very vaguely related topic, is the Chicago area the only location in the country where it seems to have been decreed by the local gubmint that all new houses be equiped with Norman Turrets on em? seems every house I see going up round here has some sort of semi- or 3/4-circular appendage stuck on it . . . sadly, none is equipped with arrow slits, but, rather, with large pane of glass begging to be shattered by the first firing of the neighbors trebouchet . . . . have the goths invaded the heartland? |
Team
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 04:54 pm: |
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Bombardier owns SKI-DOO, not Polaris. I'm pretty sure, anyhow. |
BadS1
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 04:58 pm: |
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Bombardier is Ski-Doo.Does not own Polaris.Its a company of its own.One of its plants are not but 2 miles west of my house. |
Midknyte
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 05:06 pm: |
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heheh, Bomber, did you see this go by a few weeks ago?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-0503090342mar09,1,2393718.s tory
...Last month, Trump caved in to Mayor Richard Daley's demand that he keep a decorative spire atop his Chicago tower...
(Message edited by midknyte on March 22, 2005) |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 05:02 am: |
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>>>Polaris is it's own company, not owned by Bombardier, Chrysler, or anyone else.
I believe that to be true.
Polaris, when I was researching some stuff, was a Wall Street favorite for it's ability to carefully manage overhead in good and bad markets.
The more I read about them, the more impressed I was. I believe (don't have a single thing to back this up other than intuition) that they have some talented folks who know how to watch the ball. |
Rokoneer
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 04:10 pm: |
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Court, I just got my annual stockholder report from Polaris yesterday and after perusing it I would have to say "that they have some talented folks who know how to watch the ball" is an accurate statement. |
Madbandito
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 09:36 pm: |
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Polaris made a few inroads into the personal watercraft venue.... For whatever reason, they dropped out of that market in '05. Possibly a victim of "too much, too soon"- the insidious gremlin that has wiped out many a company. Apparently they made the decision before things went south.
(Message edited by Madbandito on March 23, 2005) |
Rokoneer
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 10:07 am: |
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Polaris got into personal watercraft in '92 and decided to drop the line in Sept '04. They never made a profit on PWC the whole time they were involved with them.
Trivia question: Who was the only supplier of engines for Polaris ATV's up through '98 and still supplies the majority of engines for them, the ATV's that is. (In '98 Polaris started production of some ATV engines as well as all Victory engines in house). |
Buellman39
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 11:08 am: |
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rotax |
Pcmodeler
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 11:36 am: |
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Polaris had a display at the Cycle Expo show in Richmond, VA here last weekend. They had some customs built on the Victory engine/platform. Nice bikes. Took quite a few pictures of those and others. Will try and get those uploaded this weekend. |
Rokoneer
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 01:46 pm: |
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Not Rotax......
It is actually Fuji Heavy Industries |
Geoffg
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 07:42 pm: |
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Rotax supplies Bombardier (that is, Ski-Doo and Sea-Doo) with engines--or at least they used to. My trivia question is, what name did Bombardier use for it's motorcycles (also Rotax powered) when it made them back in the 70s? |
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